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Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 1463543 times)

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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2535 on: February 18, 2016, 07:00:58 am »
+1
i dno. if you havn't done max effort short sprints in a long time, i'd expect quads (and hams/glutes if you do more than acceleration) to get somewhat sore the first time.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2536 on: February 18, 2016, 08:21:42 am »
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^true, but they werent short sprints (~100-150m) however if i did short sprints (say <50m) with recovery, i would def have some even more pronounced and crippling quad doms .. i know that with probability 1! To be honest i wouldnt call these sprints .. i was soo out of if that day, i could barely call it a sprint .. esp after the first rep, 20s isn't quite enough recovery. felt too slow/unaccalerated  to call it anything like a sprint.  But i'm still interested in hearing the explanation.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 08:28:13 am by maxent »
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Mikey

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2537 on: February 18, 2016, 08:29:03 am »
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Quote from: maxent on February 18, 2016, 08:21:42 am
^true, but they werent short sprints (~100-150m) however if i did short sprints (say <50m) i would def have some even more pronounced and crippling quad doms .. i know that with probability 1! To be honest i wouldnt call these sprints .. i was soo out of if that day, i could barely call it a sprint ..felt too slow/unaccalerated  to call it anything like a sprint.  But i'm still interested in hearing the explanation.

I'm not sure the science behind it, but I never feel anything in my quads when I sprint. My hamstrings and glutes on the other hand!!!
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Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2538 on: February 18, 2016, 08:40:52 pm »
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if ur quads are sore, chances are u are push running and not pull running -> dynamically weak hams
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2539 on: February 19, 2016, 01:45:02 am »
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Quote from: Merrick on February 18, 2016, 08:40:52 pm
if ur quads are sore, chances are u are push running and not pull running -> dynamically weak hams

sorry i dont know about running dynamics. is this the same as forefoot v heelstrike?
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Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2540 on: February 19, 2016, 02:32:44 am »
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Quote from: maxent on February 19, 2016, 01:45:02 am
Quote from: Merrick on February 18, 2016, 08:40:52 pm
if ur quads are sore, chances are u are push running and not pull running -> dynamically weak hams

sorry i dont know about running dynamics. is this the same as forefoot v heelstrike?

I'm no expert so don't take what I'm about to say as the truth.  I'm sure Adarq or T0ddday can clarify better.

When you sprint, you are actually pulling the leg down via hip extension after you initiate the knee drive and bring the leg forward.  So as you pull the leg down from the glutes/hams via hip extension, and you make contact with the ground, the hamstring has to be strong enough in this position to stay stiff and allow the hip extension to "continue".  If it's too weak, the knee joint collapses, causing it to bend and in turn load the quads. 

The quads push your body up and down, while the hip extensors pull your body forward.  The push is not only bad from a leverage standpoint, but wastes energy as you are primarily trying to go forward, but wasting energy getting extra vertical.  You want as little vertical force and as much horizontal force in sprinting.  If this happens from sprinting, chances are you will be a very quad dominant jumper off 1 leg as well.  So yeah, weak hamstrings is not favorable from a mechanics standpoint for any dynamically hip dominant activity.

But who knows?  Adarq or T0ddday might come in and call me a moron and say I'm completely wrong lol
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 02:34:59 am by Merrick »
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2541 on: February 19, 2016, 04:02:36 am »
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Look i'm not really focusing on sprint mechanics right now but if this can help me become a better basketball player, im all ears. Specifically in driving with the ball in a half court set. Or fast break offense and defense. Or blocking a shot (which i invariably end up doing SL for some reason even though it's my weakest jump form)..
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T0ddday

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2542 on: February 19, 2016, 04:16:21 am »
+2
Merrick had some salient points other than the push/pull explanation which is a little off...  Sprinting involves pushing the ground away - not pulling your body along the track...  The concept of grabbing the track (pawback) and pulling is wrong...  the question is do you push with your glutes and hips or your quads...

Becoming glute aware and hip dominant will probably be the biggest positive change you make as a basketball athlete...  All the talk you have about as far as your "slow cns" and plodding movement will be fixed with hip activation.  Things like defensive shuffle speed are accomplished only by a hip dominant athlete...  the slow brain you think you have is prpbably more of a result of your poor movement pattern that you have running than anything else...
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2543 on: February 19, 2016, 04:18:46 am »
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That's amazing. That's the first time anyone has ever told me that. Wow. Question is, How do I make these changes happen?
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Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2544 on: February 19, 2016, 05:18:59 am »
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Yeah this has been discussed many time by many coaches.  Most recreational athletes don't have very active hips.  When you are like this and you learn to use your hips for the first time, there is a world of difference in the way you move.  So yes, it doesn't matter if you don't care about sprinting.  It is still relevant in basketball.  It's not purely about sprinting, it's about MOVEMENT. 

Having said that, quads are still important as hell in basketball IMO
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maxent

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chasing mediocrity (W1D3)
« Reply #2545 on: February 19, 2016, 05:24:34 am »
+1
BS 3x125 (LPR), 1x127.5, 2x125, 2x6x107.5 (LPR)
OHP 2x60, 1x62.5, 5x3x60 (LPR)
RDL 8x130 (LPR), 8x135 (LPR)
Hip Thrust 2x8x100 (PR)
WCU 3x100, 5x95
Thick Band TKE 2x25 (PR)
Thick Band Glute Bridge 2x20 (PR)

BW: 76.3kg / 168.21lb (2016 PR)

Squat notes:
Forced some heavy squatting even though i was supposed to just volume .. but i wanted to see if i could recover some more ground after being unable to squat 132.5kg anymore. 6 reps at 125kg or more is decent. Will work up to 12 reps. Sucks that i cant squat leave alone rep 132.5kg anymore though :(

Accessory notes:
Game changer on hip thrusts .. i realised my plates were bit small.. so i put a set of plates underneath and this made a huge difference. Otherwise it was scary ending the set cause i'd have to lower the bar to the ground and it was too far away and I worried for my back. Now i can just go straight down, easy. But these sets were brutal. If i had considered doing a 3rd set i decided against it after the 2nd, just too painful lol.

RDLs - Did heavy RDLs again for the first time since I injured my back! Now gotta work up to 8x150kg which will be 2xbw once im done cutting to 75kg. Wicked. Excited to see how this translates to athleticism once all is said and done.


« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 08:59:30 am by maxent »
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T0ddday

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Re: chasing mediocrity (W1D3)
« Reply #2546 on: February 19, 2016, 05:44:05 am »
0
Quote from: maxent on February 19, 2016, 05:24:34 am
BS 3x125 (LPR), 1x127.5

BW: 76.3kg / 168.21lb (2016 PR)

Perhaps the biggest benefit to becoming hip dominant for you would be that it would allow you to give up your never ending diminishing returning quest to cut weight...  Suffering from jumpers knee has caused me to drop max height jumps for awhile...  one way to more safely practice is weighted jumps (yes its worth it). 

I cant dunk a basketball that easily... but today i was training someone and tested my jump w an additional 40 pounds in the form of a weight vest, belt, and weighted shorts and I rattled in a ugly dunk w an effective bodyweight of 250 pounds...  this wont be possible for a quad dominant athlete and is a big part to you chasing the never ending weight loss...

At some point you have to realize you are 6'4" 168.... so you are either cut OR have no muscle and specifically no hams/butt...  if the first is the case then stop cutting... if the second is the case then building a bit of muscle will pay off a million times more than your diet... think about it.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2547 on: February 19, 2016, 06:16:16 am »
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But that's confusing, i always thought I was hip dominant... so im not sure if this is me.. b/c i too was able to dunk while heavy (~220lb) .. and quite obese, it wasn't pretty, it wasn't athletic but i could do it. I always thought my quads were not strong enuf, that was why i started to front squat. And so on. Later i decided the front squats did help me but only indirectly cause the ATG FS is a great glute and pc chain exercise (for me and my build type) and it wasn't really the quad panacea i had thought it to be, and rather the BS was superior for my quads .. but i digress..

I dont think im as lean as you think i am. I get it, at my height and weight i should be quite lean. I'm actually obese though, so maybe im an outlier an exception to the rule. I do actually believe that strongly. I dont want to cut forever but i do want to cut enough to be lean and then start from scratch, building myself up slowly and staying lean and being super patient when i do right i may be able to be a lean 80kg/175lb .. but right now im an obese 168 (in athletic terms) .. and will prob be around 15% bodyfat give or take when i reach my goal weight of 165lb. Is 15% lean enough? fuck no but i will stop and take a diet break. This thing isn't going so smoothly anymore .. it's taking ages to lose weight now and i think my body needs a break from dieting. Later on  when im fresh i'll tackle the next cut from 165 down to ... maybe 155 (75kg -> 70kg) --somewhere in that range i may hit 10% hopefully.
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Merrick

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2548 on: February 19, 2016, 07:12:14 am »
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Why don't you just post a picture?

Also T0ddday,

I don't get what you said.  You are talking about a 2 legged vert and quad dominance can be just fine for 2 legged jumps. I mean there are tons of quad dominant insane 2 legged jumpers.  The 2 legged jump is just fine being done quad dominantly unlike the 1 legged jump or sprint
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #2549 on: February 19, 2016, 07:25:59 am »
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Cause photos dont help anything. We've been down that road on the forum.  Oh you have visible abs you must be X% bodyfat where X is estimated at ~10% except I had fkn visible abs when i started cutting 10kg ago.. so either im 0% bodyfat now or visible abs dont mean anything. The thing which confounds this is i dont have typical male fat storage and im not going to take photos of my butt so this whole exercise is pointless
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