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Bodyweight: 93.85kg/206.9lb

5 days into the cut and my progress looks like this:



Kind of incredulous finding my bw so low, so soon. I don't really believe it, might have something to do with the crazy heat wave going on. Will see over the next coupla days if it sticks.

Glycogen is really really heavy for how little energy it supplies.  Not a surprise that we store bodyfat.   Five pounds in three days is expected.  Now that you have some muscle you will notice bigger swings as well.  When I started cutting for the new year I got off a plane in and weighed in at 221.  I fasted completely the next day and ate breakfast the next and weighed 205 before dinner that day.   A couple of years ago I went from 195 to 215 after thanksgiving.... It happens both ways.

After you get under 200 it will really start to slow.  At that point you will have to be meticulous with your diet or do what I do and start throwing in some fasts.  But at that point you will be losing that fat. 

Wow you know i've never really experienced such big fluctuations, my bodyweight is reasonably stable in comparison!

Not surprising.  You never had much muscle.  You are at your all time most muscular now so fluctuations will be a lot larger.

That's pretty wild though. I never though of it that way -- a guy your size and build and activity will have a daily maintenance requirement of say 3500kcal. And fast a day and you're -3500kcal, which is equivalent to the energy value of about half a kilo of pure bodyfat.

No, not really.  That's the thing.  More muscle means more glycogen.  So a fasted day (that begins in a fed state) without aerobic exercise will probably just put you near the point are running out of glycogen and beginning to use primarily fat.  Of course burning glycogen for 3500kcal will certainly mean a huge difference in bodyweight as you shed all the water bound to it.  But you don't actually get into fat metabolism any faster than the skinny guy.  I recommend you buy some cheap keostix and you can figure out exactly at what point you run out of glycogen and start producing ketones.  For me it's around 36 hours fasted with training.   

Do that for a couple of days and maybe you can burn a decent amount of bodyfat very quickly. There must be some catch to it though, maybe your body will downregulate metabolism a lot harder when you're very lean or worse, start using up muscle tissue for energy. But if you're say 10-20%, i'm sure there isn't such an effect. Pretty cool. I wonder if you can 'trick' your body by only doing it 1-3x a week or so, so it doesn't have a chance to slow down metabolism?

Again, changes in metabolism are greatly exaggerated.  They are very slight and take a long time to occur.  And if you keep up your training they essentially can't happen.  I've run 6x200m w/3 min recovery all under 28 sec in a completely fasted state.  My body is still making energy at that point.   They don't happen faster depending on how lean you are either.  The problem with leanness is that your body won't be as preferential as far as using fat as a fuel instead of amino acids.  That's why when you are lean it's more important that you keep up your dietary protein.  I always tell athletes not to waste their money on protein supplements when they want to bulk.  A normal western diet with a caloric surplus is more than enough protein to build muscle for all non-bodybuilders.  It's when you are lean and want to get more cut while still sparing you protein that you need protein supplementation.  In fact in the clinic it's really the only protein supplementation that is used medically is protein added to modify a fast. 

The downside is probably it will take ages to cut down to your goal bodyweight though as opposed to dedicated daily fasting. And for most people, the problem would be dealing with cravings and binges out of hunger and not being in a stable habit which makes a huge difference because we can humans deal with a lot of severe things that we become used to as opposed to regular disruptive changes. irregular hunger can be insatiable after a while, whereas you can get used to a baseline sort of hunger when dieting. Btw i am aware that daily fasting as in intermittent fasting actually shows a speed up in fat metabolism during the fasting period. Hmm.. lol anyway, something to try one day!
But right now i have to get thru the 3 week hump, after which i find things just settle into a groove and you can cruise along as you stick to the daily habit.

Yeah personally I don't get why people spend so long cutting.  It's going to impede your performance anyway so just fucking get through with it.  Just man up and don't eat.  Get up Monday drink some black coffee and get it in in the gym.  Eat again Tuesday night.  Do the same on Friday to Saturday and you will lean up pretty quick.   All the cravings and headaches are for women or guys who really don't have much mental fortitude.   Not being sexist here btw - women actually have a harder time fasting.

I was going to say, Todday, i actually fasted today, i haven't eaten in 17 hours and i could probably do 24hrs too, it's not so bad on rest days, i just can't train properly on training days, i've tried it before, it kills my performance.

That's all in your head man.  Fast.  Wake up.  Black coffee.  Train.  Man up and you will shock yourself what you can do.  If track athletes can do it you can definitely lift through it.  This type of challenge is probably what you need.

Yeah but isn't it dangerous not to eat for that long? Like a possible calcium attack or hypoglycemic crash?

Training
FS 1x135, 0Fx140
BS 5x1x140
BBS 1x147.5, 0Fx155
JUMPZ x 20
ABWL 4,4,3 (knees)
CU 5,5,4
AB raises x 8

FS notes:
Shit in every way possible. Quads not fresh enough.

BS notes:
Shit also, no quad drive.

Jump & bball notes:
Man i dno why, but i was dunking so hard and easy. maybe cause im a bit lighter? surprising considering how bad i was in the gym. Even jumpshots were falling nicely. I think the reason for that is not tiring out my shoulders/biceps in the gym by not doing any upper body work. Interesting.

Abs notes:
I was going to skip these but i've decided to get them a proper go. I did 2x4, i think i might have done as many as 5 on the 2nd set, kinda lost count. Just a triple on the 3rd set, just to do a 3rd set. I could probably done as many as 5 reps on the first set, maybe more, idk, they were easy today, i could go full rom. But still not strong enough to do one off toes. Will aim for 3x5 next time. Or maybe even more, idk, i used to routinely work up to 20 reps on these, maybe i'm being a pussy, but after getting my abs thrashed after 2x3, who knows what to expect.

---

I think i might have strained my R pec again. It's not super bad, but i can def feel it a bit off.

The first week was a complete clusterfuck in almost all respects. I shouldn't have attempted 4 sessions in the week. I shouldn't have thrashed my abs so much last friday. I shouldn't have run and walked as much as did early in the week, nor played ball sunday. I shouldn't have fasted yesterday. I got everything wrong.  My legs were too weak. I'll have to do a lot better next week!

Then what about going on a long walk or run or jog or whatever in a fasted state first thing in the morning? I've heard people for and against this.

Not sure what you mean.  Is it dangerous?  No.  Is it going to lead to more weight loss because you are in a fasted state.  No, not really.  First of all you are not really in a fasted state first thing in the morning.  You haven't come close to depleting muscle glycogen after a nights rest.   But even if you have for the most part "fasted cardio" is another broscience myth.  If you wake up and eat 1000 calories and run 4 miles then your cardio burns 500 calories....   If you BMR then takes care another 1000 than you will be -500.  If you wake up and run 5 miles than you will be at -500.  Then you will eat 1000 calories and be back to plus 500.   Really doesn't matter ether way.   Meal timing and your metabolism has long been shown to have negligible effects.  Get your energy balance negative through training and diet manipulation and you will lean up.   There are some health benefits unrelated to body comp that fasting might provide but IMO the main advantage to fasting is that it is much much easier for the athlete to control.

So i'm really reconsidering my approach to reaching my goal of being a strong, lean, fit, conditioned, skilled player by my deadline (~11 weeks time). I think i will fit in a stint of hardcore severe dieting, maybe 3-4 weeks. PSMF. And hopefully that will take me from say 90kg down to 85kg and then i can slowly work my way from there to 80kg. Now i don't think that's actually a realistic endpoint, it's an ideal endpoint. But the closer i come, the better, so it's not necessary an attainable goal as such, only a guide for where to aim.

In lieu of the above, i'll be ordering extra protein (i calculate i need btw 2.5-5kg) and BCAAs. This will help with muscle sparing etc. I've never used BCAA before, maybe they'll be beneficial, perhaps especially when i try the fasted training thing.

i don't think there's any strong evidence that BCAAs are "better" for training than plain old WPC, which contains all the BCAAs anyway.

don't lump me in with you on the impact of glycogen depletion!

bottom line: you need to pick a goal and settle on it. if you keep jumping around you're just going to spin your wheels.

don't lump me in with you on the impact of glycogen depletion!

Fair point brah, I won't speak for you. but say if i'm a 85kg athlete, and i go on a cut, which means a caloric deficit. And i'm eating say 2000 calories a day with say 100g of protein. So that's 400cal from protein, and the remainder i decide to eat from mostly carbs, so i'm eating 1500kcal from carbs a day. I'm still going to lose fat. I'm still burning fat even though I might not be glycogen depleted. That's my point. Caloric balance gives me fat loss regardless of my macros.

But i agree there is a place for depletion in dieting, even Duchain's original Ultimate Diet had a depletion phase with specific worouts designed for depleting glycogen. I just don't think you have to be in ketosis to be burning bodyfat. You can never be in ketosis and still shed mad bodyfat just because you're on a caloric deficit. This must be preaching to the choir, surely?

bottom line: you need to pick a goal and settle on it. if you keep jumping around you're just going to spin your wheels.

So when did I do that? My goal is the same, hasn't changed in forever, get strong, get lean, get fit, get in shape for bball. That hasn't changed, i'm just stuck finetuning my approach towards it!

Toddday's point, about the run fasted thing:
case A: fast ( or sleep ), run and burn Y kcals, eat X kcals.
case B: fast ( or sleep ), eat X kcals, run and burn Y kcals.
The energy balance is [X]-[Y]-[BMR expenditure] in both cases, eating before or after does not change what you burn in an exercise.

Now obviously if you don't eat at all, the energy balance wil be 0-[Y]-[BMR expenditure], but then we are not discussing the fasted cardio myth anymore. The myth is about some magic voodoo stuff going on that burns more fat when you run fasted than when eaten.

Double captain obvious note, word!

Vag, this is not right. Suppose you eat some carbs before this silly hypothetical run, now you're going to be using that for fuel, probably, because preferentially the body prefers to fuel off glucose. If you're fasted, then you have a better chance to burning bodyfat for fuel..