Adarq.org

Having a lot of fun in the comments section of the youtube video about the black lives matter people going into the college library and "protesting"

ya that video was annoying.

a silent protest would have been impressive ;f

interrogating students who are studying etc, chanting non stop.. it's a library ffs. If it was a KKK library then that would make more sense.

#fuckoffimstudying

;f

see, all that is racist.

My response is: Union Yes. You can guess the rest of what I feel about it. Instituting a living wage is humane and makes economic sense. The main (rational) argument against wage hikes is that they'll boost unemployment because business won't hire as many people if they have to pay them more.

This is thoroughly refuted by the majority (though not 100%, it's not like climate change where the consensus in the community that studies the issue really is near-total) of economic studies of the phenomenon, which show that there is little to no effect of wage hikes on employment rate. For a good, recent review of the evidence and an attempt to explain why wage hikes show no such effects in real life, check this out: http://cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf.

There are also irrational or evidence-free arguments against wage hikes, which amount to the equivalent of telling homeless people to get a job. Hard to know where to start with those.

The irrational argument in favor is that we are forcing people to live in poverty even though we have the means to do otherwise, and that is immoral.

This is thoroughly refuted by the majority (though not 100%, it's not like climate change where the consensus in the community that studies the issue really is near-total) of economic studies of the phenomenon, which show that there is little to no effect of wage hikes on employment rate. For a good, recent review of the evidence and an attempt to explain why wage hikes show no such effects in real life, check this out: http://cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage-2013-02.pdf.

I think the reason there is never going to be total consensus is because it depends on the level of wage hike.  Minimum wage is so low now that a moderate increase won't affect true employment rate ( it may increase unemployment temporarily as the pool gets bigger because better wages encourage more unskilled people on assistance and disability to work instead of collect a paltry paycheck )...

The other great benefit to paying a living wage is the savings we have in the mish-mash of bureaucratic programs to help the poor.  In LA you can literally buy food-stamps for 50 cents on the dollar in the hood...  To get them the amount of paperwork you fill out is so daunting that people are hired to teach people how to do it.   Additionally, for new buildings there are all kind of programs and rules about setting aside "low-income" and "very-low income" units in new apartment buildings so the working poor can afford them.  Again qualifying for the units is a massive paperwork burden AND if you do qualify you essentially enter a lottery to see if you will get an apartment that 100 other people also qualify for and dearly need...  And then there is the chance nobody will get it because the corrupt developer will find his way to give the apartment to his "poor" aunt who lives 3 hours away in a cheap suburb...  Of course she will never live in it and instead make a killing on Air BnB...

People try to come up with ways to battle this problem all the time...  But the seem about as logical is solving centuries of racism by telling black people to focus on violence in your own community...   I don't see how society tolerate ideas like food-stamps and afforadable housing for the working poor... I understand charity for the homeless or programs for mental health patients BUT how did we get to the point where we can accept it as totally normal that someone who lives in our city and who works a full-time job in our community won't be able to afford shelter or food and so should rely on a social safety net to supplement their low paying job!   It really seems inhumane.  If you work you should make enough money to buy food and live in market rate housing.   That is pretty simple.  The social safety net should be for people unable to work (children, mental health, disabled, etc).   That would make it a lot smaller net AND would really help things in the black community . 

I lied about sticking to just lifting

Adarq: Thoughts on the fast food workers who want 15 an hour?  Also, the vet who works at KFC, his main argument is he can't afford to provide for his family which is acceptable, but he loves cooking for KFC.  I have a response to both but before I get burned at the stake.....mmmm steak, I want to hear what ya'll have to say.

The issue of the minimum wage always creates a predictable argument along the lines of ‘you cannot have a minimum wage rise because it will cause unemployment among the low-skill ranks of the workforce’. However, if you took that logic there would never be a minimum wage rise!!!

Mass unemployment arises from a lack of aggregate demand. Firms will not hire people if they cannot sell the goods and services that the workers produce because they don’t want to accumulate inventories. No matter how cheap wages are firms will not employ people as there is nothing for them to do. The only way that real wage cuts would increase employment would be if they boosted private spending and reduced the desire to save. However, people already living on the minimum wage don’t have the desire or capacity to save much anyway so they tend to spend their earnings anyway. Therefore, by cutting the wage all it is doing is reducing aggregate demand in the economy. Hence this method of stimulating employment will always fail at the macroeconomic level. Workers rely on real wages growth to fund consumption growth and without it they borrow or the economy goes into recession.

This is a briefing paper (#406) from the US Economic Policy Institute.
http://www.epi.org/files/2015/understanding-productivity-pay-divergence-final.pdf

The EPI concluded that for the US:

1. “wages did not stagnate for the vast majority because growth in productivity (or income and wealth creation) collapsed. Yes, the policy shifts that led to rising inequality were also associated with a slowdown in productivity growth, but even with this slowdown, productivity still managed to rise substantially in recent decades. But essentially none of this productivity growth flowed into the paychecks of typical American workers”

2. “pay failed to track productivity primarily due to two key dynamics representing rising inequality: the rising inequality of compensation (more wage and salary income accumulating at the very top of the pay scale) and the shift in the share of overall national income going to owners of capital and away from the pay of employees.”

3. “although boosting productivity growth is an important long-run goal, this will not lead to broad-based wage gains unless we pursue policies that reconnect productivity growth and the pay of the vast majority.”

When the EPI released the report, the accompanying Press Statement said that:
The fact of the matter is, for decades, a typical worker’s pay rose alongside productivity—but since the 1970s, as a hugely disproportionate share of income generated by rising productivity has gone to extraordinarily highly paid managers and owners of capital … The relationship between rising productivity and worker pay has broken down because workers’ bargaining power has been intentionally hamstrung by a series of intentional policy decisions, made on behalf of those with the most income, wealth, and power …Our problem is not a lack of growth. For the past 40 years, productivity has gone up substantially, but these gains have not reached working people … The problem is that wages have been suppressed by a restructuring of rules on behalf of those with wealth and power.

The EPI also noted that “If the hourly pay of typical American workers had kept pace with productivity growth since the 1970s, then there would have been no rise in income inequality during that period”. That is a stunning conclusion in itself.
This is not only in America where this is the case it’s pretty much worldwide.

In the 2006 OECD Employment Outlook entitled “Boosting Jobs and Incomes”, which is based on a comprehensive econometric analysis of employment outcomes across 20 OECD countries between 1983 and 2003. The OECD found that:
   There is no significant correlation between unemployment and employment protection legislation;
   The level of the minimum wage has no significant direct impact on unemployment; and
   Highly centralised wage bargaining significantly reduces unemployment.


In my opinion the US minimum wage is too low and we can see that with the massive income inequality that exists and all the socio-economic problems that arise from it. Do fast food workers deserve 15 an hour?  Well do CEOs deserve their extravagant salaries when usually it is these very people who lead the cheer squad when it comes to the claims that workers have to take pay cuts and surrender penalty rates and that the minimum wage should be abandoned! Of course they will always justify their own salaries with the line that it’s essential to award these salaries to attract top quality executives, yet we know that a companies performance is not closely linked at times to the pay that the CEO gets, which puts a hole in that argument. The top CEO (from JC Penny Co) earned 53.3 million in the fiscal year to 2012 compared to the average worker in 2012 in his company who earned $29,688. You don’t need to be an economist to work out that raising the pay of the average worker and reducing executive pay would also lead less income inequality and also boost private spending and aggregate demand. Without question the minimum wage could be raised in the US without affecting unemployment so ultimately I support raising it.

Tod, I suck at quoting bits and pieces

1. Media is everything these days, show one interview of that worker and then it will influence a lot of people, idk how many times I saw it shared on facebook

- Yes, I realize that.  I'm just suggesting for you not to be one of those people who looks only at one video or what he sees around him rather than looking at the actual data.  I realize how bad media has become...  The internet is extremely polarizing...   Someone has a bad experience with black people and feels a little negative and starts googling and before you know it he is on some site the aggregates story and video (some true, mostly false) about horrific things black people do and then the person becomes an angry racist.   Happens the other way too, black people are angry about racism and find their way to a site where they are indoctrinated with hate against white people and start to believe that American policy is one big conspiracy to hurt black people....   Even happens to  people who are just slightly skeptical of western medicine...  They find their way to natural new or some horrible site and start believing vaccines cause autism and that cancer can be cured with a few herbs and oils...


2. When I made the focus on your own community comment, the kick starter for all of this was michael brown and the hands up stuff was a lie but they still ran with it.  Maybe there are black groups out there that are trying to clean up the streets but we never see it because it's never on the news.  The BLM calling for killing cops has already resulted in a few innocent cops being executed like the one that was pumping gas and the guy unloaded a whole clip into him and the two NYC cops who were shot in their cars.  To me and what we see, I see them doing more harm than good.  If everyone worshiped Sam Jacksons character Coach Carter, we would all be friends.

- You were there when Mike Brown was killed?  I didn't realize you knew for sure what nobody else seems to know.  I think you need to do a better job finding out about positive black groups.   Perhaps your should join your local NAACP chapter and volunteer?   Have you considered that?   The problem is you go by what you hear and you see but you seem to look at a very biased slanted view of the world.   Serious, go to your local NAACP and say you want to help.   I don't know who Coach Carter is so I can't comment.

3.  I can't say for other places but near where I live, there are plenty of those housing units that are either based on salary or super cheap(2-300) a month.  10 is more reasonable than them wanting to jack it up to 15 tomorrow(ik it would take several years)

Again, because you see plenty of them there must be enough?  Well, your wrong.  There is a massive affordable housing shortage in this country.  A market rate solution is the only thing that will work.  People here have listed know every reason why raising minimum wage would be positive and have only negligible negative impact on employment and maybe a tiny bit of inflation...  And in addition one of it's greatest benefits would be the psychological benefit workers would have knowing that they work and can pay for a market rate apartment and put food on the table rather than they work and have to rely on charity to survive, do you know how damaging that is?   But you still think it's not "reasonable" to allow workers to earn a living wage and more reasonable to put all low-wage workers together in a housing project (which contributes to crime btw).  Why is it not reasonable?  Because in your world poor people should be poor?

4.  I've wanted them to split up NYC and NYS for a long time for a number of reasons(and to get rid of cuomo).  I mentioned the video because it was just something that popped into my head when I saw his comment about the homeless.  It wasn't my reasoning for wanting to help the homeless, just a random comment like whenever in my journal I talked about taking dumps, just a random thought.


Well, I'm no expert in the idea of splitting up NYC and NYS and can't think of why it would make sense...  I don't mind anecdotes every so often,,,  But if you are going to go on this forum and call us dumb asses (which is pretty offensive, but I've heard worse in my time so I can take it) then all I'm asking is you back up some of your arguments with actual data about why policy may be effective rather than a story or a video.   

Since you have supplied a million anecdotes I will share one about myself.  I'm a sprinter and I'm mixed between african and european descent (primarily european I have even sequenced my genome).  I don't look typically black or white so I get a lot of questions like "what are you" all the time but none more than after a sprint race especially when I perform well.   I've been asked this by countless people.   I can tell you the most disappointed, racist, and defeatist talk comes from white people who find out about my background...  Everytime they are like "Oh... Africa... that sucks, I thought you might be our fast white person" or "ohhh, makes sense, that's why your fast".   Black people have never had an issue with my whiteness and generally don't really care to the degree that white people do in regards to sprinting...   I bring this story up everytime someone says "why do they call Obama black - he is half white?".   If they knew what it was like to be mixed around both black and white people they would understand.