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AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #900 on: February 26, 2014, 10:19:48 pm »
+1
Has your main focus switched to sprinting or is it just a phase, like reaching a sub-12 100, going well at those meets etc then re-think things? How is the dunk fever going these days?

Haha. I was thinking someone might ask me this soon. The simple answer is: yes, I want to still want to throw down bad, really bad. I have been thinking a lot though about the best long-term approach to achieve this, however. As I've learned more about myself as an athlete and training principles in general, my thought process has changed a bit. The relevant facts:

- Reach: 229cm/7'6.5'' reach

- Vertical touch required to dunk a perfectly timed oop w/one hand: 323-325cm/10'7-8''

- Vertical jump required to dunk an oop w/one hand: ~94cm/37''

- Vertical jump required to dunk off the dribble w/ one hand: 100cm/39-40''

- Previous best RVJ: 94cm/37'' (SL/DL) - mid-2012

- Previous best SVJ: ~89cm/35'' -mid-2012 + early-mid 2013

- Training years: ~3 (started this log about three years ago)

*vag might have different opinion on numbers, just rough estimates

For a start, based on my previous results, dunking in any way other than with a full run-up is probably unrealistic. I don't doubt I could get upwards of 40'' SVJ IF I committed a large amount of time (1-2 years) building up my squat KF style. I'm not a freak natural 400lb guy, but I have pretty good natural strength levels and can get to 2xBW squat without much long-term training or weight change (sorry entropy  ;D). That's my main advantage in regard to this 'project' (I'm calling it a project now rather than a quest. Sounds more efficient and less fantasy-like, as if it's just a dream). Dunking off SVJ would be awesome, but to get the dunk I need to be training my running SL or DL RVJ efficiently.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to dunk off one and two. Not fussed about style really. Two hands would be sweet but would require a few extra inches most likely. In the past I've gotten good success with getting my vertical up to around 37'', or just under the threshold for dunking off the dribble. I believe I can get back to those levels and beyond within the next year or so if I can stay injury-free. My training during 2012 revolved around more frequent jump sessions and explosive weights, but the actual structure was not ideal. I probably trained too much for my capabilities at that time, and I didn't know as much about recovery and nutrition as I do now. I ended up getting patellar tendonitis and had to slow down. Then I hit a strength phase for a few months but fucked it up by not programming well, continued to play basketball fatigued and ended up getting injured again.

Last year was a bit scattered, lost the first part of it just getting healthy again, then just worked on strength and SVJ, getting to 2x BW squat. Mid part of the year started to do some running and transitioning into power/RFD stuff and more running jumps, but then found out about the training group and wanted to start doing a bit of track comps as well. Figured it would be a good way to get the good adrenaline rush you get from playing ball but with less injury risk. In hindsight, I probably focused too much on arbitrary numbers last year and probably should have done more jumping. But I don't regret joining the group near the end of the year for many reasons, some of them I already detailed above. They train for speed, power, explosiveness, and there's also a focus on injury prevention. Of course, I know that it's not completely specific to vertical: the emphasis is on horizontal force production over distance rather than vertical force production for height, but there's obviously a fairly strong transfer to vertical force production. Another good outcome from the training is that I'm more confident in my work capacity: the training has been big volume and intensity lately and (aside from some minor shin splints which are manageable), haven't gotten hurt.

Now, last time I checked, my vertical is probably at what I like to call 'baseline', around 32'' for SVJ and not much higher for RVJ (maybe 33''). I plan to do a more thorough test of vertical at a 10' ring soon. I'm not 100% on the off-season plan for the group but I know it involves probably 3-4x gym sessions a week getting diesel strong. I'm talking like 2.5xBW strong in squat etc (there's some real weight-room beasts in the group). That could be cool, and I'll also try and build in a period where jump sessions are the focus (I think T0dday did something similar in his off-season recently). I live very close to a basketball court where I can practice jumps on springboarded floors (better for my knees) and really try and get the vert up.

So, to answer your first question, yes, this is a phase where I'm just trying to become a fast, strong athlete with good power numbers, and then when there's no competitions, start utilising those characteristics in vertical jump improvement again. It's probably the long way around, but there's also part of me that wants to compete in something to keep the juices flowing. Also, it'd be nice to have something else to focus on after I complete the dunk project, rather than just training in isolation.

TL;DR: Still going strong! Dunk coming soon.

vag

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #901 on: February 27, 2014, 05:43:52 am »
0
Yup, that's what i thought. With much less words of course :D Agree with the whole thing, you are still very young anyway, you have room to experiment with whatever (even vert irrelevant ), even for a couple years and then go back to dunking. And of course, sprinting is anything but irrelevant with jumping, also adds weapons in your arsenal that you would never find in 'traditional' dedicated vert training. Keep it up, see where it gets you!
As for the numbers, i agree. One thing you may keep in mind setting it up in your mind is that, imho if you can palm the ball, you can dunk without lobs while being at 'base of palm at rim' level. It is not exactly off the dribble but it is a runup with the ball in your hands. But then again, having the ball in your hands during plant/jump compromises the armswing so you lose 1-2''. At least that happens to me. So again you need to be able to touch 1-2'' higher without the ball. But yeah, 38-39'' would have you dunking without lobs if you could palm the ball fairly well. Dunking off the dribble is so much more difficult for me. I have experimented and tried to improve that on lower (9'8'') rim. But because i can't palm the ball off the dribble, i had to go to for either cuffed 1-handed or 2-handed dunks. Aka, at least 2-3 more inches needed. I could barely land cuffed 1-handers while being able to SVJ dunk or touch mid forearm off dropstep at the same rim. 2 handers are actually easier off the dribble for me. FML.

Damn, i miss dunking! Soon...
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

LBSS

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #902 on: February 27, 2014, 09:55:25 am »
0
my RVJ are very, very dependent on the groove that i've greased over the past few months. adding a ball to the mix that i can't palm, so i either have to dribble or hold with two hands, would fuck with me completely. even if i could jump 40" with a full "normal" armswing, i doubt i'd be able to get even my knuckles over the rim with a different groove. that's okay for me because, unlike entropy and others, i don't care about dunking in any situation other than perfect conditions, but it's something for acole to keep in mind as he sets targets. we're pretty similar, after all.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #903 on: February 27, 2014, 11:27:05 am »
0
To me, it sounds awesome!

That eccentric control that you're going to gain doing sprints and all the other stuff you're not really accustomed to will give you an "extra dimension" if you will. You might be surprised.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #904 on: March 02, 2014, 08:36:37 pm »
0
Thanks all, it's still gonna be a real challenge but hopefully I'm doing the right thing.

___________

Comp (Fri, Sat):

Well I had just about the worst two runs I've had in my entire life on the weekend. Had the 100m heats Friday night and completely missed my start, came dead last and just did not have any power throughout the race. Ran a craptastic 12.37 FAT with a small headwind. I felt physically OK beforehand but mentally I got a bit psyched out with the high level of competition, definitely a bit out of my league. As a result I was really tentative with my start and just completely blew it. Oh well.

Next day for the 200m during warmups I got a little pinch in my right glute. It felt like the piriformis pain I got in my L leg awhile ago. Massaged it a bit with a rubber ball but it was bothering me a little. I was supposed to be in the last heat out of about 6, but the officials must have stuffed something up because when the first heat went up on the board, my name was on it! So I was sitting in the room waiting, completely unready, and they came in and grabbed me and a couple of other guys and basically said: "You're running now!" Lol. I was a bit flustered but got a much better start. My coach timed me at 11.9 for the first 100m, but from about 120m I just died really bad. Might have been the piriformis pain, but I didn't feel it during the race. I don't remember the exact time but it was high 25s, a complete throwaway race.

I'm still laughing about how badly both races went! But it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Would have been nice to run the 100m as well as I ran the first 100m of the 200m, but that's OK. Still got one more 100m this season.

In need of anything to make me forget about the comp, the next morning around 8AM I went down to the courts for the first time this year and did a whole bunch of jumps. 5-6 per style, got a few on video (memory card filled up before the SLs but they were basically the same as the DLRVJs).

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhxkzOnmJ_c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhxkzOnmJ_c</a>

Best SVJ looks maybe about ~32-33'' (approx half hand above rim), DSVJs and RVJs were maybe a little higher. Didn't have the best vid angle. Probably not very recovered or best time of day to jump for me either but it was fun. Much work needed on RVJ technique and getting back in the jumping groove again.

LBSS

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #905 on: March 03, 2014, 03:01:34 pm »
0
vid is private.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #906 on: March 03, 2014, 06:13:44 pm »
0
vid is private.

Goddammit youtube. Fixed.

LBSS

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #907 on: March 03, 2014, 10:07:40 pm »
0
strongly recommend the t0ddday method: don't let yourself add steps to the approach until you're getting more height of the extra step. start with DSVJ, move to one-step, then two-step, etc. you're wasting most of those steps during the run-up.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #908 on: March 03, 2014, 11:43:30 pm »
0
strongly recommend the t0ddday method: don't let yourself add steps to the approach until you're getting more height of the extra step. start with DSVJ, move to one-step, then two-step, etc. you're wasting most of those steps during the run-up.

Yeah it was just to see where I'm at. I don't accelerate until the last few steps so that's where I'll set the limit for subsequent practices.

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #909 on: March 05, 2014, 06:32:41 am »
0
Track (yesterday):

1200m jog, dynamic warmup

Starting drills

2x30m block starts, 2x50m block starts

4x120m re-accels

300m sprint

Cool-down UB/core weights

BW: 78.5kgs

Good session but I felt the R leg piriformis strike in the 300m. Not too bad but definitely there. I hadn't been feeling the shin splints at at but I forgot that my body has a rule that there must be at least one nagging injury present at all times! So annoying.

Gym:

Dynamic warmup

2x5 consec broads

2x5/leg SL bounds

Power cleans: 1x7@60kgs, 1x5@65kgs, 1x3@70kgs, 1x3@75kgs, 1x5@70kgs, 1x7@67.5kgs

In between: ham/core exercises

Squat: 1x10@100kgs (felt strong)

Bench: 1x10@72.5kgs, 1x5@82.5kgs

Lat pulldown, chinups

BW: 79kgs

Piriformis was sore this morning. Couldn't touch right leg with right hand and straight back without some pain. Rolled the shit out of it during warmups and it was OK. Hopefully be OK for longer sprints tomorrow.

Competing this Sat, gonna do the 100m and LJ. Hopefully the 100m goes better this time!

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #910 on: March 06, 2014, 08:27:43 pm »
0
Track:

1200m jog, dynamic warmup

6x150m - range: 17.4 sec (4th rep) - 18.4 sec (last rep), best 100m split was 11.5ht, not bad at all!

Cool-down UB/core weights

BW: 79kgs (+.5kgs over last week or so)

Felt piriformis a bit during first two reps, but wasn't affecting time. Just gotta run through it. Bit sore today but hopefully will be OK by tomorrow.

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #911 on: March 09, 2014, 10:37:13 pm »
+1
Comp:

100m - 12.10

LJ - 5.25m (just had the one jump, didn't get run-up right)

400m - 60.50

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qfhqyyjc5uhkfgi/yZ58t849Im/Round11/Yellow-rnd11-individual-10Mar14-930AM.pdf

Ran a lot better this week, didn't break 12 sec but did make marginal improvements. I wanted to do more jumping but my coach made me run a 4. I pushed hard but I just have no fitness for 400s atm.

I've been training with the group for about two full months now and have shaved off 0.42 sec from my initial time of 12.52. I still think I could improve it quite a bit though. I've still got a lot of technique and fitness weaknesses. Out of the 10 or so guys who are in the group, I am definitely the most "un-fit" right now in terms of 400m/800m speed, but I'm probably about the 5th or 6th fastest over 100m despite that.  Would be cool to get back to 11.5 sec by end of next season.

_________

Gym:

Dynamic warmup, 6min rowing machine

Squat: Warmup, 1x7@115kgs, 1x5@120kgs, 2x3@125kgs, 1x5@120kgs,1x7@115kgs

In-between:core/ham supplementary exercises

Bench: 1x10@70kgs,1x5@80kgs

Power cleans: 7@65kgs

In between: UB supp exercises

BW: 78.5kgs

I have a few weeks before any comps so I did more volume in the squat. Felt pretty good, like I could do a few more kilos each set.

One thing I don't agree with though is that we do these sessions with less than 24h rest after competing. Some of the other guys were doing sets of triples, doubles and singles at close to their 1RM. I just do what I'm told atm but it seems counter-intuitive to me. Maybe for amateurs it's not so important. I feel OK today, not sore (except piriformis which is improving).

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #912 on: March 12, 2014, 01:02:54 am »
0
Track:

1200m jog, dynamic warmup

Starting drills

2x30m block starts, 3x50m block starts

4x120m reaccels

300m - 41.5 sec

BW: 79kgs

AGC

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #913 on: March 13, 2014, 09:49:29 pm »
0
Gym:

Active warmup

Few shot put throws

Power cleans: 1x7@65kgs, 1x5@70kgs, 1x3@75kgs,1x3@77kgs, 1x5@70kgs, 1x7@65kgs

In-between sets: ham/core supp exercises

Squat: 1x10@105kgs

Bench: 1x10@75kgs, 1x5@82.5kgs

DB rows, lat pull

BW: 79kgs

I'm slowly getting more confident with power cleans. Atm it's not really landing on my chest hard and I'm not getting the elbows out and under the bar. I'm more just catching it at my chest and stabilising it with elbows pointed down. It's not a bad thing apparently, the weight isn't too heavy, just have to get more confident with it and work on the rack position.
___________

Track:

1200m jog, active warmup

5x150m, 12mins rest between - 100m/150m split: 11.5/17.5, 11.7/17.8, 11.7/17.9, 12.3/18.6 (had 20mins rest before, tightened up), 11.6/17.6 (all ht by coach)

Cool-down UB/core weights

BW: 79kgs

This was pretty good. I was running by myself but I don't think it slowed me too much.

One more 200m/shotput round in two weeks, and there's also a 100m event next week which I've entered but it has qualifying standards. I don't know if 12.10 is good enough atm, we'll see. Would be good to get another run in. The season finishes with a final state round with all the regional winners. We're definitely in the final but the events are limited to top-3 runners from each club, so I might only be doing the shot put lol.

Raptor

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Re: acole14's journal - DUNK OR DIE
« Reply #914 on: March 13, 2014, 11:26:40 pm »
0
How are you doing your power cleans? From hang or from the ground? Since you didn't say "hang power cleans" I assume from the ground.

If you do them from the hanging position, then I found out that it's best to do singles instead of more reps. For me, whenever I do even two reps the amount of fatigue I get in my hands becomes a very limiting factor in actual power expression in the clean itself. The bar starts to feel heavier and heavier every second I stay with it in my hands and the arms start to wander around in bad, weird positions.

So today I did singles (3x1 instead of 1x3) with like 20 seconds or so breaks in between, and all my reps were explosive and powerful. Just something to think about.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps