Author Topic: AGC's journal (Read 523319 times)

AGC · « **Reply #1125 on:** May 05, 2016, 09:22:00 am »

Quote from: LBSS on May 04, 2016, 12:13:25 pm

goals?

Just to jump as high as possible and dunk on 10', nothing new really. I could set some measures but I really have no idea what I'm capable of at this stage. At least 37''+ RVJ I 'd hope!

Quote from: maxent on May 05, 2016, 12:45:52 am

Before you order your vest put it up on here. There are some terrible ones and some decent ones available in Oz. I did find a 20-30kg one which uses iron weights that looked decent compared to the rest, will edit in and link it later

Too late! I already ordered one. Thanks for the lookout though. I have used one particular vest brand extensively training with the aths club that was really good, a 5kg one with good straps that stays on for all the jumps and drills we did, and I think I could get away with it under a jumper. I checked it out and it actually wasn't that expensive:

https://www.hartsport.com.au/fitness/weighted-resistance-equipment/weight-vests/hart-weighted-vest-5kg

so I just impulse-bought it. T0ddday recommended 10-15lbs and this one is ~11lbs, with space to go up to 15lbs, so it should do the job. Should get it next week

Quote from: T0ddday on May 04, 2016, 07:17:40 pm

Quote from: acole14 on May 04, 2016, 10:17:23 am
___________________

T0ddday came through with a beastly program for me. Should be interesting! T0ddday, I've annotated it with some questions:

Almost Daily Training: (what does this mean? Before every session? Or on off days?)

7) Weighted Standing Vertical Jumps 2-3 x 5 (for this and all other 'weighted' exercises below: what weight for vest?)

2) Glute Thrust: 2x15 (barbell or BW?)

2) Band Box Squat to heavy single, Band box squat 10 reps for time (goal should be 10 seconds) (weight for 10 reps/10 sec? 10RM?)
3) Heavy Dumbell Decline Side to Side leg raises (I have a vague idea what this is but not sure...)

Track/Field Work:

2) Medicine Ball Tosses x 15 (measured? Weight?)

Answers:

A) The almost daily training should be done on as many off days as possible. On a weight day you can do the ADT in the evening. Include with it mobility work specific to you. The almost daily training isn't hard, it's basically standard prehab - we work daily glute activation, daily dorsiflexion and calf mobility, daily patella work because the goal is to allow you to have a large jump volume without standard overuse injury. On jump days you can include the ADT (minus the jumps) as warmups before your jumping or just complete it minus jumps in the evening.

B) Whatever weight vest you can afford and wear daily. 10-15 lbs is good. You can load up more weights for jumps but IMO not totally necessary.

C) Barbell
D) Pick a weight + bands that allows you to have a challenging time doing 10 reps in 10 seconds. Go to just parallel or just above to a box and come up (don't worry about completing the rep 100%). Ideally the bands should make this weight less than half your max. Here is a video of me doing parallel band squats for 10 reps in 9 seconds. My 1rep max that day was 500lbs to the box. I used 225 + black monster bands. Since I completed 10 reps in under 10 seconds the next week I went up to 245 lbs + black monster bands. This one will generate some lactate so watch out. Also there is a learning curve. If you haven't done this you will be terrible. So, you might start out with bands + 25lbs and not get it but you will figure it out in a few sessions... You have to keep core really tight during the set or you lose rhythm. This is my favorite lactate drill for sprinters in cold weather who don't have access to a real track. If your a glutton for punishment you can do them for higher reps as a finisher... I have my 400m guys do sets of 15-30 reps and taking between 20-50 seconds. Seriously pain. But serious endurance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCVDgqcKfoc

E) Lay on a decline bench opposite (so your hands hold the places that hold your legs). Hang your legs off with a dumbell between feet. Raise your legs up for a standard leg raise. Now raise them in a V so you raise to left and your right hip comes off bench. Back to center. Side to side.
F) Whatever weight ball allows you to throw between 10-20 yards.

A) OK, so I would do it with the gym session and on rest days (of which there'll be two). Not on track days I'm guessing.

B) I've ordered a ~11lb vest that I know should be comfortable (see above).

C) Got it.

D) OK, I think my gym has the same bands as that in the stuff drawer so that's helpful.

E) Err...I just realised my gym doesn't have a decline bench! I missed the decline aspect when I first read it. Could I do a hanging version from the chin up bar? Would be pretty similar.

F) OK, that would be about 5+kgs or so I'm guessing, will test when I get into the sheds.

______________

In terms of schedule....given I'm playing bball Mon for at least the next 7 games...I guess it would be something like:

MON - ADE minus jumps then bball

TUES - ADE then Weights #1

WED - Track #1

THURS - ADE+Weights#2

FRI - Track#2

SAT - ADE minus weighted jumps, then jumps

SUN - ADE

All that plus the hypergravity element. To be completely honest, I don't think I can do that. I probably would have to modify it to get around bball for the short-term. Maybe alternate the two track sessions weekly and have Friday just ADE or off completely? I must admit I do share Raptor's and Leonel's reasonable concerns that the overall program volume might be excessively high, especially if the daily prehab stuff also calls for at least 36 weighted jumps. I have done similar high volume work in the past two years (training 5/6 days per week) but with not as many jumps (not that it did much for me anyway)...and it was right on my limit. I'll hear what you and others think, maybe I'm being too conservative...

Also, lastly, how many consecutive weeks would you run this block before testing or progressing?

LBSS · « **Reply #1126 on:** May 05, 2016, 09:35:24 am »

here's my experience with a high-volume, high-frequency t0ddday template: do as much of it as you can, and don't sweat if you're too tired to finish a workout or if you need to cut the intensity way back one day or skip a workout. i could not do the workouts as prescribed, and i could not complete a week without skipping something. but i pushed myself to do everything with max effort and cut myself off once that dropped. and i started PR'ing like 2-3 weeks later.

that said, do not neglect the jumps. if jumping higher is the goal, nothing is more important than ME jumps. if you have to cut back, cut back on the track. and fwiw, the second-most helpful thing for me were bounds, followed by heavy paused squats, then MB throws.

AGC · « **Reply #1127 on:** May 05, 2016, 09:44:48 am »

Quote from: LBSS on May 05, 2016, 09:35:24 am

here's my experience with a high-volume, high-frequency t0ddday template: do as much of it as you can, and don't sweat if you're too tired to finish a workout or if you need to cut the intensity way back one day or skip a workout. i could not do the workouts as prescribed, and i could not complete a week without skipping something. but i pushed myself to do everything with max effort and cut myself off once that dropped. and i started PR'ing like 2-3 weeks later.

that said, do not neglect the jumps. if jumping higher is the goal, nothing is more important than ME jumps. if you have to cut back, cut back on the track. and fwiw, the second-most helpful thing for me were bounds, followed by heavy paused squats, then MB throws.

Yeah sure, I'd definitely try to do what I can initially and take that approach over time. Knowing that you've done pretty much this program without injury is heartening, even if it wasn't 100% as written.

vag · « **Reply #1128 on:** May 05, 2016, 11:47:24 am »

+1 to what LBSS adviced , i had ( am still having ) the same experience/treatment.

T0ddday · « **Reply #1129 on:** May 05, 2016, 01:14:13 pm »

Quote from: Raptor on May 05, 2016, 02:33:58 am

Interesting program but where do you fit all that humongous volume???
I would need days to recover after one of those workouts alone.

Quote from: Leonel on May 05, 2016, 02:44:21 am

haha yeah that volume is huge... my knees would simply disintegrate no way I would be able to handle it. and the daily pistols/slant board squats imho add to the stress put on the knee/patella tendons...

It is interesting the feedback on volume that seems to come from this board. I seem to be pretty far on one side of the pendulum when it comes to volume. I think there are a couple things important to note about the way the program is structured.

1) Some exercises - eg the bw slant board pistol to just above 90, the heel/calf drops, the dorsiflexion work, and the glute activation actually INCREASES the amount of volume the athlete can handle. I can give you a bro-sciency hand-waving explanation of why eccentric single leg slant board squats have this effect and it would be something along the lines of "knee stress is from heavy concentric load and landing shock while slant board eccentric actually lengthen the patella under moderate repeated load which remodels the patella and makes it more capable of handling landing stress".

Tbh I don't totally understand that explanation - imo more load doesn't seem like a good thing but anecdotally it works. If you read the literature you will see that eccentric loading is always recommended for tendinopathy rehab. What I have seen anecdotally is that if you are suffering from jumpers knee - slow eccentric only even to the point of pain (concurrent with cessation of other stressful activity) is one of the keys to recovery. However, for a knee-healthy athlete like acole I prescribe the eccentric and concentric as prehab, I've honestly seen multiple athletes who begin to have minor jumpers knee when they don't this as prehab - adding it back in ameliorates the problem.

2) It's rare that volume alone is the problem in most training programs for a well conditioned athlete. Volume alone isn't as meaningful as volume * intensity. One thing I think that is a missing element to most people who train alone or at least not part of a collegiate or semi-serious team is that they don't build up an ability to modulate intensity out of the weight room such that they can still make gains. This really is an art and IMO one of the most important things an athlete can learn. Even in the weight room we sometimes forget the difference between working up to a daily training max (~85-95% of a real max) and working up to an all-out grinding halting max attempt. The first takes time to develop the work capacity but is achievable the second is asking for trouble.

I don't mean to pick on members of the board but it seems a common refrain that doing stuff ME is the only way to go... From entropy's standing broad jumps on hardwood where he literally falls to his knees after each attempt to gain a few cm to Raptors description of running for his life on every sprint there seems to be a lack of ability to work dynamically at modulated intensity. I realize this is counterintuitive to some degree. Sprinting IS sprinting. Going and jogging 100m in 25 seconds will not help you get faster in the 100m at all. It almost seems as if their is no such thing as submax sprinting but it is an explosive activity. However, most of dynamic movement involves both force production and reactivity - take a little off the first part and you can still do an excellent job at training the second component. My favorite example of this is shown in these two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX5NhSXhtKI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZsAP0vljI

Bolt runs a 9.9 and 10.1. Almost equal wind-speed. One involves straining to produce force for 100m meters while the other relies on 3-5 second initial burst and an ability to ride out momentum with excellent reactivity to coast to a 10.1. The first is 100x harder to recover from. The second could be done for reps in training easily.

If you can approach bounding like this you can handle a lot of volume. When I do 1-step single leg bounds off my left-foot I can make it past 18 yards on my PR attempt. However, if I am doing them as part of a program like the one I wrote for acole I will take a moderate intensity first step off my left foot and purposefully land on or before the 3 yard marker and I will make sure I get past 15 yards strain free. Is this impressive? Not especially. It's 9 feet less than a PR attempt... But it accomplishes one of the most important elements of bounding (the bounds are progressively longer). Some days making it past fifteen yards is ridiculously easy... some days not so much. One the days when it's not that easy I would probably collapse my landings if I tried to go farther; thus 15+ yards accomplished with progressive lengthening is a distance for me that sufficient to provide a training effect while also allowing me to recover between workouts... When you train like this things eventually start to feel really easy. At some point you almost accidentally start hitting 16 or 17 yards and at that point you can move up your training standard...

Long story short you can make a lot of gains training in a zone below ME, we think of progressive increases coming from increasing (a) load/power or (b) volume but we forget that there are subtle changes that indicate belie your gains. You might bench press 100 kilos for 3 reps of 5. You could try to add weight weekly and get up to (a) 110 kilos for 3x5 or you could try to add volume and reach (b) 100x3x8 after some amount of time. Or you could just continue to do 100x3x5 and after some amount of time your body will learn to turn on fewer motor units and it will get easier (c) and you can then add weight/volume with very little struggle... Will the gains come faster with (a) or (b) vs (c)? Probably. Especially if you stay at a certain weight/rep scheme for too long. But which will be easier to recover from? Which will allow you to become best technically at the movement (maybe not as important for bench but vital for bounding), which will allow you to include a lot of other work in your program? IMO it's C. This is why I think the best structure to a program is accomplished by first getting the athlete to have decent fitness/work-capacity. Then most of the exercises are performed submax (again not easy just closer to 95% intensity than 105%) with the exception of a specific goal. In the case of LBSS and acole that is ME running vertical jumps.

It takes a cerebral athlete or an observant coach to figure out that the athlete is improving rather than stagnating despite non-obvious measures - when Vag was doing GPP sometimes the only improvement is "feeling it". If you can recognize that and learn to improve across a range of movement you will become the best athlete you can be...

T0ddday · « **Reply #1130 on:** May 05, 2016, 01:28:49 pm »

Quote from: acole14 on May 05, 2016, 09:22:00 am

A) OK, so I would do it with the gym session and on rest days (of which there'll be two). Not on track days I'm guessing.
B) I've ordered a ~12lb vest that I know should be comfortable (see above).
C) Got it.
D) OK, I think my gym has the same bands as that in the stuff drawer so that's helpful.
E) Err...I just realised my gym doesn't have a decline bench! I missed the decline aspect when I first read it. Could I do a hanging version from the chin up bar? Would be pretty similar.
F) OK, that would be about 5+kgs or so I'm guessing, will test when I get into the sheds.

______________

A) The ADE should be performed as much as possible. If you can roll it into a warmup for your jumping workout that is fine. Besides that it should be performed at night after the workout. It isn't designed to be skipped on track days (you could skip the jumps AND/OR modulate the intensity of the strength work but the goal is to complete it. If the reps/sets I gave look like intense training modulate it to more of an activation level for yourself. Here is an example of how you could do that (eg understand the spirit of the workout).

1) Slant Board Single Leg Pistol Squat to 90 2x15

- why? Patella health, quad balance. Too hard? Perform just eccentrics focusing on keeping knee/foot heel alignment and feeling a stretch in front of quad.

2) Prone Leg Raise 2x10
3) Prone Glute Kickback 2x10

- Isolate hip extension and stretch hip flexors. You can use band resistance or weight - or no load. Focus on the stretch back and firing your glute and keeping your back/alignment straight.

4) Slant Board Calf Drop/Raise (bent and straight leg) 2x20

- again think of this more of an achilles/calf stretch.

5) High Box Bulgarian Modified Squat with Hip Hyperextension

- This is vital. Here the toe of your shoe is on a high box behind you. Not the front of foot just the toe. You dip moderately and then rise up so other foot is on tip toe and push out the hip and flex glutes. You should feel a very very strong stretch across the hip. Contrast how you feel after this exercise vs squats. Doing squats allows most to feel a lightness across the knee (unracking and stepping out the lack of weight is noticed across knee) this is designed to teach you how it feels to have that same feeling across the hips.

6) Abdominal Lying Leg Raises 2x20 @ 10lbs / Side Plank for time

- Drop the weight.

7) Weighted Standing Vertical Jumps 2-3 x 5 (for this and all other 'weighted' exercises below: what weight for vest?)

Weighted Single Leg Standing Vertical 2x5
9) Weighted 1 Step Vertical Jump (both plants) 2x5
10) Walking vertical jump (both plants) 2x3

- All of these are designed to get you accustomed to loaded jumping (with vest). These are not ME. Make goals and hit them. For these it might be 30'', 20'', 32'', 33''. Maybe less. They will get easier with time and this will accelerate the hypergravity effect.

BTW about the vest. For jumping days the vest can be taken off for ME jumps (or left on for the first couple weeks and then taken off for ME jumps). The only time the vest should never be work is single leg bounding. IMO I would warm up on track with vest and remove it for duration of track work. Keep it on for other work.

Quote

In terms of schedule....given I'm playing bball Mon for at least the next 7 games...I guess it would be something like:

MON - ADE minus jumps then bball

TUES - ADE then Weights #1

WED - Track #1

THURS - ADE+Weights#2

FRI - Track#2

SAT - ADE minus weighted jumps, then jumps

SUN - ADE

All that plus the hypergravity element. To be completely honest, I don't think I can do that. I probably would have to modify it to get around bball for the short-term. Maybe alternate the two track sessions weekly and have Friday just ADE or off completely? I must admit I do share Raptor's and Leonel's reasonable concerns that the overall program volume might be excessively high, especially if the daily prehab stuff also calls for at least 36 weighted jumps. I have done similar high volume work in the past two years (training 5/6 days per week) but with not as many jumps (not that it did much for me anyway)...and it was right on my limit. I'll hear what you and others think, maybe I'm being too conservative...

Also, lastly, how many consecutive weeks would you run this block before testing or progressing?

I would keep this up with small modifications till you come to the states.

T0ddday · « **Reply #1131 on:** May 05, 2016, 01:31:57 pm »

Quote from: LBSS on May 05, 2016, 09:35:24 am

here's my experience with a high-volume, high-frequency t0ddday template: do as much of it as you can, and don't sweat if you're too tired to finish a workout or if you need to cut the intensity way back one day or skip a workout. i could not do the workouts as prescribed, and i could not complete a week without skipping something. but i pushed myself to do everything with max effort and cut myself off once that dropped. and i started PR'ing like 2-3 weeks later.

that said, do not neglect the jumps. if jumping higher is the goal, nothing is more important than ME jumps. if you have to cut back, cut back on the track. and fwiw, the second-most helpful thing for me were bounds, followed by heavy paused squats, then MB throws.

This is pretty much gospel. You know your body best. Listen to it. One too few is 100000x better than one too many...

Another thing you can do is move as much as track work to grass as possible if running on a hard surface is hard to adapt to... But for the most part I think you are pretty well conditioned athlete and will be able to do a lot more than you realize...

AGC · « **Reply #1132 on:** May 05, 2016, 11:20:10 pm »

Quote from: T0ddday on May 05, 2016, 01:14:13 pm

Quote from: Raptor on May 05, 2016, 02:33:58 am
Interesting program but where do you fit all that humongous volume???
I would need days to recover after one of those workouts alone.

Quote from: Leonel on May 05, 2016, 02:44:21 am
haha yeah that volume is huge... my knees would simply disintegrate no way I would be able to handle it. and the daily pistols/slant board squats imho add to the stress put on the knee/patella tendons...

It is interesting the feedback on volume that seems to come from this board. I seem to be pretty far on one side of the pendulum when it comes to volume. I think there are a couple things important to note about the way the program is structured.

1) Some exercises - eg the bw slant board pistol to just above 90, the heel/calf drops, the dorsiflexion work, and the glute activation actually INCREASES the amount of volume the athlete can handle. I can give you a bro-sciency hand-waving explanation of why eccentric single leg slant board squats have this effect and it would be something along the lines of "knee stress is from heavy concentric load and landing shock while slant board eccentric actually lengthen the patella under moderate repeated load which remodels the patella and makes it more capable of handling landing stress".

Tbh I don't totally understand that explanation - imo more load doesn't seem like a good thing but anecdotally it works. If you read the literature you will see that eccentric loading is always recommended for tendinopathy rehab. What I have seen anecdotally is that if you are suffering from jumpers knee - slow eccentric only even to the point of pain (concurrent with cessation of other stressful activity) is one of the keys to recovery. However, for a knee-healthy athlete like acole I prescribe the eccentric and concentric as prehab, I've honestly seen multiple athletes who begin to have minor jumpers knee when they don't this as prehab - adding it back in ameliorates the problem.

2) It's rare that volume alone is the problem in most training programs for a well conditioned athlete. Volume alone isn't as meaningful as volume * intensity. One thing I think that is a missing element to most people who train alone or at least not part of a collegiate or semi-serious team is that they don't build up an ability to modulate intensity out of the weight room such that they can still make gains. This really is an art and IMO one of the most important things an athlete can learn. Even in the weight room we sometimes forget the difference between working up to a daily training max (~85-95% of a real max) and working up to an all-out grinding halting max attempt. The first takes time to develop the work capacity but is achievable the second is asking for trouble.

I don't mean to pick on members of the board but it seems a common refrain that doing stuff ME is the only way to go... From entropy's standing broad jumps on hardwood where he literally falls to his knees after each attempt to gain a few cm to Raptors description of running for his life on every sprint there seems to be a lack of ability to work dynamically at modulated intensity. I realize this is counterintuitive to some degree. Sprinting IS sprinting. Going and jogging 100m in 25 seconds will not help you get faster in the 100m at all. It almost seems as if their is no such thing as submax sprinting but it is an explosive activity. However, most of dynamic movement involves both force production and reactivity - take a little off the first part and you can still do an excellent job at training the second component. My favorite example of this is shown in these two videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX5NhSXhtKI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZsAP0vljI

Bolt runs a 9.9 and 10.1. Almost equal wind-speed. One involves straining to produce force for 100m meters while the other relies on 3-5 second initial burst and an ability to ride out momentum with excellent reactivity to coast to a 10.1. The first is 100x harder to recover from. The second could be done for reps in training easily.

If you can approach bounding like this you can handle a lot of volume. When I do 1-step single leg bounds off my left-foot I can make it past 18 yards on my PR attempt. However, if I am doing them as part of a program like the one I wrote for acole I will take a moderate intensity first step off my left foot and purposefully land on or before the 3 yard marker and I will make sure I get past 15 yards strain free. Is this impressive? Not especially. It's 9 feet less than a PR attempt... But it accomplishes one of the most important elements of bounding (the bounds are progressively longer). Some days making it past fifteen yards is ridiculously easy... some days not so much. One the days when it's not that easy I would probably collapse my landings if I tried to go farther; thus 15+ yards accomplished with progressive lengthening is a distance for me that sufficient to provide a training effect while also allowing me to recover between workouts... When you train like this things eventually start to feel really easy. At some point you almost accidentally start hitting 16 or 17 yards and at that point you can move up your training standard...

Long story short you can make a lot of gains training in a zone below ME, we think of progressive increases coming from increasing (a) load/power or (b) volume but we forget that there are subtle changes that indicate belie your gains. You might bench press 100 kilos for 3 reps of 5. You could try to add weight weekly and get up to (a) 110 kilos for 3x5 or you could try to add volume and reach (b) 100x3x8 after some amount of time. Or you could just continue to do 100x3x5 and after some amount of time your body will learn to turn on fewer motor units and it will get easier (c) and you can then add weight/volume with very little struggle... Will the gains come faster with (a) or (b) vs (c)? Probably. Especially if you stay at a certain weight/rep scheme for too long. But which will be easier to recover from? Which will allow you to become best technically at the movement (maybe not as important for bench but vital for bounding), which will allow you to include a lot of other work in your program? IMO it's C. This is why I think the best structure to a program is accomplished by first getting the athlete to have decent fitness/work-capacity. Then most of the exercises are performed submax (again not easy just closer to 95% intensity than 105%) with the exception of a specific goal. In the case of LBSS and acole that is ME running vertical jumps.

It takes a cerebral athlete or an observant coach to figure out that the athlete is improving rather than stagnating despite non-obvious measures - when Vag was doing GPP sometimes the only improvement is "feeling it". If you can recognize that and learn to improve across a range of movement you will become the best athlete you can be...

Yep, I'm totally on board with all of that. Eccentric strengthening is one of the few (if only) things that seems to have good evidence with regard to fixing and preventing tendinopathies. I think I sorted out my achilles tendinopathy through rest and weighted eccentric calf drops/holds. I really like the prehab stuff in the ADE workout - I was just hesitant about weighted jumps everyday. But as you say, doing the prehab should help accommodate the volume, and also to get out of the mindset that every jump has to be as high as possible.

I must say it is nice to be able to question a program and get a considered reasonable response! My old coach was good with program design for the most part, but he was very much 'my way or the highway'. Didn't like having to explain it to his athletes, would rather they just obey and get on with it. That can be good but sometimes it cuts out important athlete feedback.

Quote from: T0ddday on May 05, 2016, 01:28:49 pm

Quote from: acole14 on May 05, 2016, 09:22:00 am

A) OK, so I would do it with the gym session and on rest days (of which there'll be two). Not on track days I'm guessing.
B) I've ordered a ~12lb vest that I know should be comfortable (see above).
C) Got it.
D) OK, I think my gym has the same bands as that in the stuff drawer so that's helpful.
E) Err...I just realised my gym doesn't have a decline bench! I missed the decline aspect when I first read it. Could I do a hanging version from the chin up bar? Would be pretty similar.
F) OK, that would be about 5+kgs or so I'm guessing, will test when I get into the sheds.

______________

A) The ADE should be performed as much as possible. If you can roll it into a warmup for your jumping workout that is fine. Besides that it should be performed at night after the workout. It isn't designed to be skipped on track days (you could skip the jumps AND/OR modulate the intensity of the strength work but the goal is to complete it. If the reps/sets I gave look like intense training modulate it to more of an activation level for yourself. Here is an example of how you could do that (eg understand the spirit of the workout).

1) Slant Board Single Leg Pistol Squat to 90 2x15

- why? Patella health, quad balance. Too hard? Perform just eccentrics focusing on keeping knee/foot heel alignment and feeling a stretch in front of quad.

2) Prone Leg Raise 2x10
3) Prone Glute Kickback 2x10

- Isolate hip extension and stretch hip flexors. You can use band resistance or weight - or no load. Focus on the stretch back and firing your glute and keeping your back/alignment straight.

4) Slant Board Calf Drop/Raise (bent and straight leg) 2x20

- again think of this more of an achilles/calf stretch.

5) High Box Bulgarian Modified Squat with Hip Hyperextension

- This is vital. Here the toe of your shoe is on a high box behind you. Not the front of foot just the toe. You dip moderately and then rise up so other foot is on tip toe and push out the hip and flex glutes. You should feel a very very strong stretch across the hip. Contrast how you feel after this exercise vs squats. Doing squats allows most to feel a lightness across the knee (unracking and stepping out the lack of weight is noticed across knee) this is designed to teach you how it feels to have that same feeling across the hips.

6) Abdominal Lying Leg Raises 2x20 @ 10lbs / Side Plank for time

- Drop the weight.

7) Weighted Standing Vertical Jumps 2-3 x 5 (for this and all other 'weighted' exercises below: what weight for vest?)
Weighted Single Leg Standing Vertical 2x5
9) Weighted 1 Step Vertical Jump (both plants) 2x5
10) Walking vertical jump (both plants) 2x3

- All of these are designed to get you accustomed to loaded jumping (with vest). These are not ME. Make goals and hit them. For these it might be 30'', 20'', 32'', 33''. Maybe less. They will get easier with time and this will accelerate the hypergravity effect.

BTW about the vest. For jumping days the vest can be taken off for ME jumps (or left on for the first couple weeks and then taken off for ME jumps). The only time the vest should never be work is single leg bounding. IMO I would warm up on track with vest and remove it for duration of track work. Keep it on for other work.

Quote

In terms of schedule....given I'm playing bball Mon for at least the next 7 games...I guess it would be something like:

MON - ADE minus jumps then bball

TUES - ADE then Weights #1

WED - Track #1

THURS - ADE+Weights#2

FRI - Track#2

SAT - ADE minus weighted jumps, then jumps

SUN - ADE

All that plus the hypergravity element. To be completely honest, I don't think I can do that. I probably would have to modify it to get around bball for the short-term. Maybe alternate the two track sessions weekly and have Friday just ADE or off completely? I must admit I do share Raptor's and Leonel's reasonable concerns that the overall program volume might be excessively high, especially if the daily prehab stuff also calls for at least 36 weighted jumps. I have done similar high volume work in the past two years (training 5/6 days per week) but with not as many jumps (not that it did much for me anyway)...and it was right on my limit. I'll hear what you and others think, maybe I'm being too conservative...

Also, lastly, how many consecutive weeks would you run this block before testing or progressing?

I would keep this up with small modifications till you come to the states.

OK, will do. Thanks for all that, I'll do my best as you've put in a lot of effort for me. I don't have access to a slant board but I could get my dad to whip up one - he loves that stuff. I'll just do them with heel elevation until I can get it. For the first week I will film as much as possible to get your feedback. Tbh I'm slightly regretting committing to this basketball comp....would rather just be able to do the program without the extra stress. But I need to stay in touch with a competition if I ever want to dunk in-game....

__________

Looking forward to starting now. I have seven weeks before I head to the USA for conference/lab visits as part of my PhD and I'm hopefully gonna meet up with T0ddday in LA while I'm there for the first 3-4 days. That'll be awesome! BTW LBSS, I'm going through DC and although I'm really happy for your new job of course I was kind of hoping to meet up to throw you some lobs! Would have been fun.

LBSS · « **Reply #1133 on:** May 06, 2016, 12:26:55 am »

Shit! Well, if my visa takes forever (entirely possible), I very well might still be here. PM me your actual dates. At the very least I can tell you some cool places to go.

AGC · « **Reply #1134 on:** May 08, 2016, 08:13:27 am »

Last few night I've just been doing the ADE minus jumps to get used to them:

1) Slant Board Single Leg Pistol Squat to 90 2x15
2) Prone Leg Raise 2x10
3) Prone Glute Kickback 2x10
4) Slant Board Calf Drop/Raise (bent and straight leg) 2x20
5) High Box Bulgarian Modified Squat with Hip Hyperextension
6) Abdominal Lying Leg Raises 2x20 @ 10lbs / Side Plank for time

I'm familiar with them all except 5)...not sure if I'm doing it correctly. Gonna have to get that on film to see if I'm doing it right. Today I went to the gym and did the full ADE plus weighted jumps. I should have filmed everything but it was just too crowded to do it properly. I also probably need a tripod thing. I hadn't checked but luckily the weight vest at the gym is the exact one I ordered! The area I'm trialing for jumps when the court is booked (which is 90% of the time) is not bad. It's the arch of a door about 10' high, and with the weight vest I was just skimming it jumping submax. The only thing I'm a little concerned about is the floor, it's not concrete hard but it's that fake wood flooring, not much bounce. Will just see how it goes, could try landing on a mat...

AGC · « **Reply #1135 on:** May 11, 2016, 08:29:00 am »

Lost bball again. Still very rusty, I had a nice double cross --> and-1 layup in the first few minutes but wasn't able to get any good shots after that because my teammates are a bit inexperienced playing real 5v5 basketball. It's mostly a complete mess offensively, no one knows what to do. But it's just a bit of fun and I'm going half-speed on purpose so I can't be too critical.

Bit of a false start with the program, was planning on doing the gym#1 Tuesday night but ended up being Wednesday. Anyway:

- ADE plus weighted jumps (5 SVJs, 5 DSVJs, 5 1-step RVJs) --> just doing 1 set of 5 to start out. The jumps felt pretty good I guess, just submax.

- Box squat: 5x5@90,100,110,120x2 kgs --> this was fairly challenging at 120kgs, will try and go up though

--> One important note here is that despite the fact that my gym has squat bands, it doesn't have a attachment point on the ground like I've seen when T0ddday does them. I had in my head just to double loop them around the safeties but it just didn't work. PT at the gym said they might be getting the attachments soon but...I'd be surprised given they are a council gym. We'll see but I might not be able to do banded squats in the short-term

.

- Glute thrust: I had to get off the squat rack as someone was waiting and the setup for BB glute thrusts takes forever. I just did banded glute thrusts on a bench with 20kg DB...it felt pretty good actually, good glute burn. I'll hopefully try it BB next week to compare.

- Push press: 3x8@40kgs --> this is close to my limit right now.

- Hanging inverted V-path leg raise: 2x15@10kgs --> this is my improvised "Heavy Dumbell Decline Side to Side leg raises". It hurt pretty bad.

- Weighted pullups: 3x8@9kgs

BW: 77.5kgs

This was a fun session despite some issues. Logistically my gym isn't ideal for this type of training...but I think I can get 90% of it done to the same effect. FIlming when it's busy is also next to impossible, it's just too crowded and small. Gonna try track#1 tomorrow and maybe jumps Friday morning. The gym should be free during the mornings on Friday pretty consistently and I can bomb into the lab at lunch most Fridays. Then gym#2 and track #2 on the weekend, see how I feel recovery-wise. Weight vest should come tomorrow

AGC · « **Reply #1136 on:** May 13, 2016, 06:12:29 am »

Did track session yesterday. I was told I was on the keys list but of course...it hadn't made it into 'the system' yet so I couldn't get the med ball or tape measure. I got told today thought that it's all good. It was also drizzling a bit so couldn't really film much. Used the weight vest.

400m jog

Active warmup

*vest off*

5 broad jumps

3x3 DL bounds

3x5 SL bounds (didn't do 3 sets/leg, just 2xL, 1xR for now)

3x5 LRLR bounds

3x10 skater jumps

40m speed bounds

Sprints: 5x20, 4x40, 3x60, 1x80, 1x100, 1x300m --> I didn't time this, have done 300m cruises in <45sec before but...might have been a bit slower. First time running over 120m in many months

. Didn't do the 100m because I was stuffed and also late due to stuffing around at the desk. Good session though.

Did jumps the next morning. Was feeling pretty good overall, my weird knee sensation (not hurting, just 'odd') was kind of there though. Hoping the pistols and BSSs help with that.

I filmed the two ADEs that I'm not sure on:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2lgh05io" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yV2lgh05io</a>

I thought I was hitting 90deg on the pistols but I'm not even close! Will work on those. T0ddday, I tried two different variations of the BSS that you recommnded as I wasn't sure if you meant the top or bottom of the toe (i.e. top of shoe, or ball of foot?). It looks pretty crap atm so I think I'm doing it wrong...

I did as much of the jumps session as possible, only had 45mins of court time and it's a huge session. Wore the vest for warmups/ADEs then off for jumps. Here's the session as written and what I managed to do:

1) SVJ 3x5 --> 1x5
2) 1 step single leg jump (3x5)--> 1x3/leg
3) 1 step vertical jump (dominant plant) 3x5 --> 1x5
4) 3-5 reps multi-jumps with rebound to target (aim for 5 no more than 10 --> 1x5, I think I was doing this right but not sure. Nearly fell on my arse most reps!
5) 5x Broad Jump, Broad Jump, Vertical Jump --> 1x5
6) 3x3 3 step Single Leg Jump--> 1x5
7) 3x3 3 step double leg jump --> 1x5

Increase Approach Distance to hit 10-20 maximal vertical jumps--> 5 SLRVJs, 5 DLRVJs (of varying quality lol)
9) 5x3 depth jumps --> nope
10) 5x3 band resisted jumps -->nope, also I missed this in my questions, not really sure what this entails. I have a Power jumper that I could use here...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQDnghfBB4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nQDnghfBB4</a>

There's a jump in there I forgot to rotate, whoops. I just wanted to get a good sample of each to film. I was pretty cooked just doing this! Overall I'd rate anything above a DSVJ right now as very poor. I lack ability to control speed into the plant clearly but that's not so unexpected. I may be dead tomorrow with soreness....already feeling it

AGC · « **Reply #1137 on:** May 14, 2016, 05:29:19 am »

Feeling relatively OK today but my mid-back/spinal erectors are sore AF. I forgot how much the midback gets stuffed when you jump ME.

Gym#2:

5min rowing warmup

ADEs (didn't do jumps)

*vest off*

Box squat: 5@60kgs, 5x@100kgs, 3@120kgs, 2x@1125kgs, 1@130kgs, 1@140kgs, 10@100kgs (hard)

Hanging inverted v-path leg raises with 6kgs: 4x10

Deadlift: 5@40kgs, 3x2@80kgs, 1x2@100kgs (plenty for me right now)

BW chins: 10 // BW dips: 21

Rehab stuff

BW: 77kgs

T0ddday · « **Reply #1138 on:** May 14, 2016, 11:21:30 am »

I really need to get better descriptions on film. My day job is killing me right now but for the more esoteric exercises this is a must. As far as your ade exercises your confused on.

For the elevated split squat. You have the front of your shoe on the box, like a bss. I want your toe on the box. Like put your entire foot on box flat like your going to jump off it and then jump forward so only your toe remains but you could still push off your back foot w your foot in exact same position it would be in to run (toe off). The box your using might be a tad high for when you make this change.

Obviously this greatly decreases ROM and you won't get much depth. That's ok. What I'm looking for is at the top of the ROM back leg straight, pushing off tip toe. Forward leg straight hip pushing out. This should be a very strong hip activator and stretch - far more than its a strength exercise. How to know if your doing it right is to compare it to squats. When we do barbell squats and track the bar we should feel "lightness" across the knees. That is do some squats, rack bar, bend your knees, stand up tall and feel "lightness" across the joint cause of the lack of resistance. This exercise should make you feel it across the hips. Very rare to know what that feels like.

One note is the bss foot position you have... Not a bad position for a multitude of stretches. Before the squats I like tight athletes to go through a circuit of hip flexor and quad stretches with this foot position. But I don't like the foot position during the exercise for an ade exercise. Remember for ade stuff - if your unsure of how to do it and one way is much harder and more intense - it's probably the other.

About the pistols... Are you doing them on a slant board? I can't tell. The greater the slant the harder it is to get anywhere close to parallel. I'm not worried about your depth.... But SLOW down. Remember this is prehab. This is a modified version for a healthy athlete of eccentric slant pistols. The protocol for them is 3-4 seconds down with pause at bottom and then standing up with both feet. I allow healthy athletes to do the concentric with one leg if it doesn't cause pain but we are not trying to blast quads daily w these. Go down slowly, take note of knee and foot tracking, be stable, don't use momentum, feel stretch at bottom, and then go up. This is a stretch and mobility exercise first and foremost. You have your heavy squats, band squats, bounds, lifts, etc. where you blast the training and go all out.... What makes this amount of volume in your program possible is the variation in intensity and tempo.

T0ddday · « **Reply #1139 on:** May 14, 2016, 11:44:10 am »

As far as the jumps. Nothing wrong w a walking approach but it doesn't look like your approach jumps work. That's ok. Cut them until they do. So do drop step jumps. Then do two step jumps and three step jumps. If and only if those provide more height then move to 4/5 step jumps. I think LBSS has mentioned this method as the "toddday" rule or method of earning your steps. It's pretty important for movement efficiency. The only exception I have made for athletes is testing extra steps in terms of pairs for athletes who put a lot of torque in the plant.

What that means is an athlete might drop step 35". (Left toe raises and right foot is swung into plant)

The I might allow athlete a two-step takeoff. So left step, right step, take off. Athlete might only jump 35.5" or less. Technically that might suggest that we shouldn't add steps... However a RLR takeoff might result in 38" jump. This is because athletes (especially track/jumper background) can be really uncomfortable starting with their right foot in front of left (or vice versa) and moving their left foot first... So for those athletes the testable steps are basically drop-step, RLR, RLRLR, etc. same principle applies though.***

Your not much of a one footed jumper I see! Strange given your track background. Again I wish I had video but I think you can make a lot of gains here by fixing your mechanics. One drill I would like you to force your self to do is what I call the euro step take off. Run toward hoop from top of key, force your penultimate step to land outside of key on right side and your left foot take off to be from not much farther forward but back inside the key. I really would like to film this to explain but I find it does wonders for athletes who jump like you.

***last note. I think for now you may want to keep weight vest on and even add additional weight for your rim jumps. Two reasons. Easier to learn approach mechanics for some people at slower speeds. Also, I personally don't like your target touching achievement... This is somewhat psychological so if it doesn't bother you then you can ignore me but imo what I see is: your standing vertical allows you to touch the rim. Your drop step... You can touch the rim. Your 3 step can touch the rim. Sure, you can touch more of the rim or something but imo that doesn't allow as much progress. A vertec where you are constantly removing vanes and touching a measurably higher distance works. Touching with two vs one hand is OK but not ideal in my mind. Adding load so the rim is very difficult or out of reach without an approach is good too. I have trained atheltes in aerobics rooms where the ceiling is only 10'1 and the athlete is over 6'. We begin w standing vertical and a 20lb vest, finishing w 60-75 load and a running vertical of about 25".

Finally... Those backboard touches. You spend way too much time on the ground and go way too deep on rebound... Like I said before don't try to change this too much consciously but do the following... Switch to a one handed touch of hopefully a slightly higher object. Work to get x touches in 10 seconds.

Adarq.org

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