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Hey so I keep meaning to make an encouraging post but getting stuck between telling you not to be hard on yourself, that you've clearly put the work in, could be situational if you think this run didn't meet expectations
vs
giving constructive feedback, (maybe review Lyle articles? I don't know that much about aerobic training, his stuff is more in depth than my ex sci textbook), maybe also bang for buck/what specifically needs work in your training organization (the thing you mentioned about not enough speed work for a marathon I wasn't sure about, but you honestly probably know aerobic training/your particular situation better than I do and of course alternating training focus is beneficial in some ways) and if you want to be hard on/critical of yourself I probably shouldn't be trying to convince you otherwise although hope you're still enjoying the running to some degree.

Just also glad that the rest of your life stuff is going, with a serious job, a serious relationship, just hope that your expectations for training take that stuff into account too

Dude congrats on the kid!

Sucks that nothing is helping the knee. Wish I could be of some help. I know you tried KOTG and diving into the theoretical side.

Probably a last option scenario kind of thing, and not even sure it would help but something I have been thinking about is getting one of those fancy $1000 DonJoy braces they prescribed me when I tore my PCL. Then my mechanics made it to a reasonable level, i stowed it away, and then my mom threw it out. After delving deeper into how the body works and realizing just how much compensation mechanics have happened because of the PCL tear, really wish I still had that brace. I'm not entirely sure what injury you have, but it might be something to consider, maybe a professional could recommend you something.

I think it's kind of interesting that playing bball doesn't irritate it but jumping does. I'm sure you've tried some stuff like this but maybe some specific sessions where you do some athletic movements and try to figure out what specifically puts extra stress on the knee and how you can try to alter mechanics to adjust for that? examples - jumping DL with a more frontal jump plant vs a more side plant , or jumping SL with more hip extension vs knee flexion? And then maybe, if one jump technique doesn't seem to generate a lot of power but is ok on your knee, maybe that would be more trainable than a technique that hurts your knee? Might not work at all but just thought I would throw it out there.

So my silly ass is going to be doing GPP in the middle of the season. Just want to get back to lifting for a while and see how it feels. Been having some serious anxiety and periods of high stress, want to see if lifting helps

6/22

Sumo DL: up to 295*5, 275 2*5
-my hip mobility is good, but not good enough to keep perfect form (my femurs are internally rotating), 295 had some very slight back rounding

Squat (low bar, heels elevated): up to 265 3*5, 1*7
-this feels good! I'm getting a good hip drive with these specs, and my quads are playing a secondary role.

BSS (14" box, foam pad for knee (partial RoM): 50's *8, 65's 2*8 w pause
-left leg mobile hip, right leg hip stable. First few reps going up fast, last few grindy but not difficult?: this emphasizes the weaknesses of my training this season. I don't think I have ever had this issue when lifting consistently in previous seasons.

Back ext, upper back extensions (hands on head) BW*8,8,10
-a lot weaker than I thought this would be. not even sure what muscles im using. I think its like some of the upper erectors that go from the upper lumbar to the cervical vertebrae. my theory is strengthening these muscles will help stabilize my hypermobile left leg during athletic movement

Leg press on toes, trying to go for extra RoM: 360 4*8
-I think this tweaked my back cause I was stabilizing from the back instead of the hips on my right leg which actually doesnt usually work with that kind of pattern. My left leg typically works uses this kind of pattern but my right one does not.
-explosive str endurance is kind of low i guess? I used to destroy leg press

With my former mechanics involved using the quads concentrically for movement a lot. Now I think I mostly use them for force absorption and elastically.


6/23
soreness: glutes, adductors, a little quads. forgot protein yesterday

DB OHP: up to 40 *8, 35 2*8
-asymmetrical pattern, right shoulder forward

DB rows: 85's 2*8
-last reps a little too grindy

Face Pull: 22 *12,10,10
-aiming to pull stability both from the neck and low/mid back. afterwards uppermost erectors, connecting thoracic vertebrae to cervical and head tightened up. I think I was using muscles dynamically that I normally stabilize the neck with isometrically, so the neck was unstable and pulled help from elsewhere.

Incline DB press (setting 5 incline): 45's *8, 50's *7,6

Reverse flys: 12's *10,10,10
-left scapula wants to stay stable, right scapula wants to move with the arm bones

Shrugs from low pulley: various weights
-couldn't decide on the form: neck bent or straight, back bent or straight

Pullups: *6,6,6
-trying to externally rotate arms and get coracobrachialis involved. My opinion atm is this is the most complete way to do pullups, but the body is diagonal with this setup (not vertical like you generally see with pullups) and that's tough to maintain.

Lateral raises: 15's *8,8,8
-not really getting the sort of shoulder engagement I was looking for. Not sure why

Close grip pullups *6,5,4

I seem to be sucking in my stomach for a lot of this stuff. Doesn't seem like a pattern that one would want. Not sure about going forward with upper body lifting, I believe it's detracting from the non-weight room mechanics I have spent a lot of time developing. Will have to see how my athletic movements are impacted and what to do next.

6/24-25

A 3 hour ultimate practice both days. Hamstrings still sore both days from lifting a few days ago. However it seems lifting actually contributed to (cant be sure but) good mechanics, probably because the squat was hip driven. I think despite the soreness, my CoD is better than before lifting. My throwing mechanics are really different from a few weeks ago, backhand side is worse, flick side maybe a bit better.

Something to be cautious about, achilles ache,  after lifting mechanics introduced, having to perform 2 roles of stabilizing the knee  (where the calf attaches to the femur) with a locked foot and also working concentrically during triple extension. With non-weight room mechanics, it doesnt stabilize the knee, the hamstrings do that from the hip. I have tried this pattern before (briefly) and at the time felt it was too risky for the calf to have to perform a role that serious. If I cant get this to work Im gonna drop lifting and use the pattern im used to, safer that way.

Going back to logging for a little while. Tryout time is over, during which my aim was just to take it easy with workouts and stay fresh. Didn't really make any great teams, for lots of reasons, but pretty content with where I am at.

6/11

close grip pushups -target and prevent mid back from collapsing
pushups with traps wide
pullups with engaged shoulders? very specific grip.   
leg raise and dragon flag variations - can mess with this to target different parts of the psoas, and train it in differnt ways

6/14

Kettlebell snatch (alt arms): 40 *8+8, 8+8, 8+8 (warmup)

Pullups *6,6,6
-these are strong, fast, and dead hang. A cue I have been feeling like might help carryover to functional strength is to kind of widen my shoulders and use my coracobrachialis muscles to stabilize. However this will cause less reps in the short term (didnt do this during this workout)

Captains chair w pause *18,18

Hang Power cleans 155*5, 185*5, 155*5, 135*5
-the lighter ones are done with practically no hip bend, basically from an upright position, and with almost without stopping between reps, however didn't manage to get some of the later ones very high. 185 about halfway down the thigh, but all went up nice and high.

a few depth jumps
-pretty bad. trying to touch a high target. I think this is mostly a coordination exercise at this stage

altitude drops up to 54"
-not getting much hip involvement, also not super coordinated.

broad jump with runup into stick
-considering this variation to develop force absorption with the hips. Not a very intense stimulus, even with longer jumps. Was thinking if I landed on a diagonal surface, I would get the hips more involved in absorbing force. Might be interesting to try on sand?

A few accelerations
-I need to get coordinated in accelerating more on my toes. I think this allows the highest degree of both hip and quad activation, will keep working on it.

Trap bar DL 185 *8,8
-focus on bar speed, rebounding hard out of the bottom. I feel like this will have moderate carryover to accelerations, in a complex with them I think these might have some use
-So with all the alignment work I have done I have established that my left and right legs have very different ways they activate in any movement because of the PCL tear. I'm trying to be mindful of this during training, essentially I have to use different movements to train either the left or right leg. Seems like the trap bar DL can target both, I just need to focus on the leg I am targeting

-So I didn't have a traditional GPP block to build strength going into the season. This is the only season that has not had a preparatory GPP block. Been feeling the impact of that, not quite as sturdy and more strength based field movements (acceleration and CoD) have quicker dropoffs and less available to fully activate after having already asked for a lot from the anaerobic and aerobic system during any given point.
However I don't want to be doing a whole lot of strength work in-season either, in the short-term I think that's going to sap explosiveness. But it might be best for best end of season results.

6/15

Hang Power Cleans 115*5 *9 rounds
-last 3 superset pushups 3*12
-feel like with this low weight I'm actually the closest to carryover to top speed
-calf tiredness? maybe from dropping the bar from the upper position?

40Y sprints *4
-my impression when about to start these was that I had temporarily potentiated ONLY the concentric portion and that was actually a bad thing, like maybe specifically even: I generally use my calves for absorbing landing impact when sprinting, but they were completely tuned to being used concentrically.
-there was a potentiation effect from the HPC's but it was something like: +stride length, -stride frequency. There was certainly something about them that felt good. Overall, though, I would say there was a loss. But it might have to do with lack of experience mixing these, tiredness from the HPC's and the fact that I didn't adjust for my PCL tear mechanics when doing HPC's.
~hunch: I think my current running style, running on my toes will not have as much carryover from HPC's. Generally ground contacts are really brief and another impression that I had was that I use my quads too much to benefit from HPC's as potentiation

Yeah dude im the same way, dont deal with criticism too well. I think with exercise science its kind of tough cause theres probably many ways to approach the same problem. And many people who give opinions on the right way, maybe that way has worked for them or others, but if the theory doesnt make sense to me or the person presents it like its the only way to go about it that can be irritating.

I think for shin splints tibialis raises or walking on the heels with toes and balls of feet off the ground for time was something that helped me.

If I were training for sprint and focusing on acceleration, i would try to do maintenance sprint sessions for top speed maybe at least once every few weeks, to make sure you dont lose your top speed, cause doing lots of weight room stuff without any maintenance speed work can have that effect. I remember a few years ago i committed to a really intense squat program to build a foundation for athleticism, but didnt play much ultimate during that time and when I started playing again my athleticism was horrible because my body had fully adapted to squatting. Maybe you already do enough with the track work you do though.

Hope you have fun on your vacation!

Hey so I found the podcast episode that talks about depth drops, although its only briefly touched on in the context of sprinting

https://www.just-fly-sports.com/podcast-319/
Altitude drops at 19 mins in, gets a little more to the point at 21 mins
Also in the podcast theres mention of shin angle at 60 mins, bascially saying you can't get good shin angles without high strength/power levels and cues might not help. Not sure how much that would apply to you.

So you might know that a bunch of the force generated in each step of top speed has to be vertical force, and a large portion of that is absorbing the vertical impact when landing from each step. Quote from textbook: elite sprinters tend to produce most of the total vertical force in the first half of the ground contact, while nonelite sprinters produce vertical force distributed throughout the entire GCT. So the speed at which vertical force is produced eccentrically (when landing) and concentrically is important, which Is why I think the altitude drops should carryover. Definitely something to be really careful with though.

I have some other helpful stuff from the textbook in the speed and reactivity discussion part of the board, under the title agility and speed. I starred the stuff I thought was especially helpful.

Quote from: FP on May 14, 2023, 08:56:30 pm

Sorry, I was thinking of depth drops. I was trying to find the source video from where I got that bit of advice but haven't found it yet. It was actually a mix of 2 things, one of Cal Dietz videos where says that he has found that depth jumps end up improving ankle function in particular despite popular belief that it also improves knee and hip explosiveness. The other thing was a Just Fly episode where I think it was either Dan Fichter or Chris Korfist talking about using higher depth drops for developing force absorption, I think in terms of sprinting. I really need to be more organized, I skimmed some videos and podcast episodes and couldn't find either comment, hopefully will get around to it.

I would be careful of single leg depth jumps because I can't imagine you would be perfectly stable landing from that, even though it seems more specific, if the stability is even slightly off (especially for a really dynamic movement absorbing force single leg like that) that will mess with the power output a lot, which you probably know.

Quote from: seifullaah73 on July 31, 2022, 11:38:19 am

Update: Form still sucks lol, I'm covering 10m in 8.5 strides. Not sure if sleds will help but will practice lean aggressively even more so now.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl6qP9aT2NI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl6qP9aT2NI</a>

Also groin sprain after session as painful to walk today.

EDIT: after beating myself up over it and next day (today) looking back at it, the lean looks pretty good, but not putting enough power into the ground and therefore the 3rd step not really projecting forward just energy dying or something, and the 8.5 to 9 steps to 10m.

I will try and improve on the lean just by practicing but will move onto sled workout next week. hopefully that should fix the problem.

For the last part, where I said you might not be flexing your hips enough, I was thinking of this vid where the stride seems cut short in the first step, but I was wrong, you seem to have improved that.

I tried single leg depth jumps, it is too difficult, especially if one doesn't have stiff ankles it just goes wrong, so yeah not going to do that. Depth drop makes sense and then after progressing from that is land the drop and then single leg jump onto a small box. instead of reactive it's stability and then strength. Numerous ankle twists may have weakened my ankle strength.

You talking about not extending the hips, it is true even if my first step is improved but the following steps the hip extensions decays, so aim is to maintain hip extension during drive phrase until upright then not really an issue but from start to end I need to try keep knees closed as during drive phase it's easier for negative foot movement and in upright it helps with the vertical force development and doing strides with knees closed compared to knees open big difference in stride pattern and less stress on lower limbs.

Hip flexion. Flexion. You might also be not fully extending but i was talking about your stride being cut short at the end of swing phase.