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TRIED METRICS but, are you kidding me? The amortization time in the 2-leg bounds for length was about 1s long. Are you fucking kidding me? There's absolutely no chance of doing consecutive bounds, the overload on the legs from each landing is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too high. The same applies to vertical 2-leg bounds - incredibily long amortization time and incredibly un-coordinated.

I did not film them because anyone looking at that would puke on spot.

Then I did left leg single leg bounds and they were DECENT but not really good. The hamstrings started to fail at that point and the knee to collapse, even while decelerating from the bounds (after finishing them).

So I did 3 sets of single leg bounds on the left leg and that was it.

The hamstrings were failing like you couldn't believe.

COPY FROM MY LOG ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm doing swings every day by the way, 3x10 in the morning, and 2x5 one-leg straight leg deadlifts with the 24 kg kettlebell. Apparently, even with this low volume, my legs are failing.

How can I suck so much at squatting right now? I mean really? One month ago I was squatting 140 kg easy enough, and now I struggle to squat 100 kg (that feels like 130) for 4-5 reps? WHAT THE FUCK?!

Im gonna go through your log more in depth later tonight, see if we can figure out for SURE what the deal is, it sounds like youre just starting to adapt to extra workload from all the gpp and bounding, but I want to look more carefully to be sure, Ill reply later on.  The bounding is a pretty intense STRENGTH stimulus too, especially the single leg bounds, so that may be it, youre just getting used to the extra volume.

Quote from: LanceSTS on November 21, 2010, 04:34:41 am

Hang Clean with 1-2-3 Drill

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPlpWV5J9SI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPlpWV5J9SI</a>

I am new in this forum. I do hang clean regularly, but after I watched this vid, I think my form is crap.

You mentioned about loading the glutes, not the hamstrings just like doing RDL, but when I do RDL, I stretch my hamstring more than my glutes. And also you said sit back, does that mean sitting back like westside barbell box squat style?

Another question is do i arch my back like doing back squat or keep it kind of natural with very slight arch? Should I feel my hamstring being stretched when I am sitting back or only the glutes?

Many Thx

there is a point of arching that is over doing it, and taking the glutes out of it, so you will feel the hamstrings dominate, that is too much.  You want to keep a flat back, not rounded in any way, but not over arched either.

 The best thing to do is practice an rdl iso at the bottom position, just above the knee, and hold for 30 seconds or so, really focusing on feeling the glutes fire.  Once you get the iso down, progress into a traditional rdl, with the glutes leading the movement.  Finally incorporate the clean, once youve mastered the first two.

  Learning to pull down with the hip flexors is invaluable to truly turn on the glutes, dont just "fall" into the bottom position, PULL down into it.

To me, if I try double arm swings in a maximal jump the jump leg is guaranteed to be overloaded and collapse.

So I think the key in getting this is to start submaximally and just focus on the arm swing while keeping the jumps short and not that tall (easy jumping) and increase jump amplitude over a few workouts.

Single arm swing does help me with dunking with the ball in hand though, since it makes the movement natural and easy.

so think about dunking the ball with two hands, off one leg...........

so i did the bounding workout again but this time both double and single leg with the power jumper...the single leg bounds are waaaaaay easier than the double though double leg jumping is my prefered jumping style so you'd think i'd be better at the double leg version...i didn't do them with out the powerjumper because i was pretty beat...does it work to do a session with the powerjumper and a session without...or should i do both in the same session but drop my volume on both?

also my right leg(i single leg jump off my left) seemed to hold up better than my left leg hahaa

my abs are sore already actually which is something i wasn't expecting...they were sore the last time i did the bounds but i didn't realize thats why they were sore...i think my ham strings are going to be pretty sore too...you were right about the strength stimulus thing!

Quote from: Raptor on May 20, 2011, 03:49:11 am

Speaking of arm swing, is there any way to switch from a single arm swing to a double arm swing in single leg bounding? Any progression or just plain old practice of the movement?

My single arm swing resembles what happens in a sprint more than in a jump.

funny i naturally do a double arm swing when bounding on my left leg(my primary jumping leg) and a single arm swing when i bound on the right...hmmm...curious

  I would definitely do them both in contrast fashion (w/power jumper, then without) in the same session.  That way you benefit from the stim effect of the loaded sets immediately on the next unloaded sets. 

  Its usually easier for people to incorporate the double arm swing off the leg they plant with on a 2 leg jump, and will take more work on the other leg, dont you if you plant left- right or not but thats usually the case.  Either way you can get it down, just start with the single jumps until you feel comfortable with it.

Speaking of arm swing, is there any way to switch from a single arm swing to a double arm swing in single leg bounding? Any progression or just plain old practice of the movement?

My single arm swing resembles what happens in a sprint more than in a jump.

  Yea, practice single leg broad jumps, but land on two, with the double arm swing.  It will become more natural, then progress to single leg bounds, re setting by stopping, putting the hands on the ground in front of you each bound.  Finally put it into play in the full bounding.

Lance, just got to say, I love these single leg bounds, so thanks for putting them up.  I still suck at them, but I just love doing them for some reason.  And guess what, I PR'd with another inch now.  Obviously it wasn't JUST the bounds, but ever since I started them, and increased my jump session frequency, I did add 3".  My main focus right now, is to master these.  Can't wait for those bounding progression videos.  

But I had a question:  On each "bound", am I supposed to swing my arms and my other leg as I would in a SLRVJ?

NICE man, thats a very big improvement, 3 inches is no joke when it comes to jumping!  And yea, use the most powerful/coordinated arm swing you can muster up.

Hm... well I do tend to bend forward at the waist when I run for my plant. If not (say I lean back a bit) then the knee usually collapses, so what you say makes sense.

 

So you're saying this can be corrected more with plyo stuff than weight room work (more a matter of shock absorption&manipulation/body position than regular say Romanian Deadlift or GHR strength)?

yep, both are important, but the bounding/jumps must be done to truly correct the issue in a high speed movement like that with very specific joint angles/recruitment patterns.

Also, what's your take on sprints and uphill sprints? They should train the hamstrings at high tension thresholds and going uphill should load the hips more, while at the same time the body position should favor hamstring load.

I like them, but they are MUCH lower intensity than the bounds, although i agree that they provide some great gpp for jumpers/sprinters, at a very low risk of injury. (note: was specifically speaking of uphill sprints, sprints are done by EVERYONE lol)

Thanks for this discussion by the way, I find this stuff very interesting and it's nice to actually have someone whom I can freely talk about and is able to understand these things.

No problem man, enjoyed it. 

PS. Andrew's words of "hamstrings are useless" keep coming to mind. He was talking about quad dominant two footed jumps though

haha, yea 2 leg jumps are much different, and I would imagine that was in retaliation to people preaching that the quads do nothing, and the p chain does everything, which is not true at all, in any jump.

Yeah I know, and you're right.

But how would a progression to stiff leg bounds should go? I mean, I have never ever seen anybody do that. Nowhere. You're saying a stiff leg single leg bound is a bound where the only movement occurs at the hip, while the knee is locked? That's... I'm not sure it's possible. You'd have to be a mutant in terms of strength to do it properly.

  The leg is going to be semi stiff legged in reality, the knee is of course kept bent very slightly, but ALL action is from the hip.  Best progression is to get really good at primetimes at a high -ish speed, then do them (single leg stiff leg bounding) slowly, then do them fast.  Once you start doing them, you adapt fairly quickly, and then you can progress into all out speed.

And yeah, my hamstrings are strong, but shouldn't the glutes take over in terms of hip extension? Ain't I overloading the hamstrings if they act as prime movers in terms of hip extension? Shouldn't the hams assist the glutes into performing the hip extension? Wouldn't getting the hams stronger make me even more "ham" dominant and potentially get injured by improper recruitment patterns/lazy glutes?

There's a bunch of stuff I need to think about ...

Glutes and hams should work together for sure, but, thats one of the main reasons the hamstrings have to be insanely powerful to be able to "lock up" in a high level athlete, so that the force transfer is not broken when the foot hits the ground.  If the hamstrings are not up to par, they will give, the knee will bend MORE as it slides forward, and guess where you will now feel the tension instead of the glutes...............  

Everything I listed will be glute "driven" in a way, when done properly, when you "feel" more hamstring, its usually because they are not yet strong enough to stay contracted during contact, and transfer the work up the hip.  If the pelvis is kept in proper position, "lazy" glutes is not a problem, but athletes will still tend to "feel" the hamstrings UNTIL they are strong enough to lock up hard enough, and transfer the force.