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Messages - T0ddday

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91
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 16, 2016, 09:48:37 am »
Quote from: Coges on August 16, 2016, 01:39:11 am
Missed lifting last night and it's my daughters birthday today but I should be able to sneak in a quick lift between getting home from work, my sons swimming lessons and the family celebration with cake. Depending on how the rib goes I will squat, hip thrust (realised I've been doing weighted glute bridges so far but will change tonight) and some OHP & chins. I will probably have 30 mins so will see what I can fit in.

I have 9 weeks left of the normal ball season then 3-4 weeks of finals. I'm really hoping to make some significant gains in that time and feel like this is possible if I focus on the following:

Nutrition
Was 92kgs even this morning.  I want to be 87-88 heading into the finals. 5kg in 8 weeks should be possible. The shit thing is even if I lose purely fat my bf will probably still be in the low teens at 87kg. I need to be there or lower though (captain obvious). Still going on 2,400 cals a day as this number produced a good drop in weight when I hit it but allowed me to still eat a decent amount for training.

Training
Getting more full sessions of the jump circuit and track work in. Again a captain obvious moment. Was re-reading T0ddday's comments and details for the program and really the jump circuit/practice is a critical part of the program which I have been unintentionally neglecting. I will patiently push my squat and push press and just be patient with the other lifts to manage overall stress.I have figured out where I can do med ball tosses when it's not wet too (are there alternatives to med ball tosses though that can have a similar benefit? KB swings? idk). Another thing I'm planning is at least monthly massages. I have private health so will only pay $15-20 or so for it so I might as well use it. 

On a side note I was watching some old dunking videos of mine from 2012 (http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/two-hands-two-feet/msg79920/#msg79920) and also watching the raw footage and although it's pretty sad the speed at which I dunk it's also pretty sad how easily I could dunk back then with minimal run up or effort compared to now. It was nearly 4 years ago and I was squatting 100x5 and deadlifting 130 x 5 around that time. Was weighing in at 90kg. Makes me want to improve even more watching that back.

Yes, the jump workouts are paramount!  If you read my comments on Andrews journal one thing you might revise about my jump workout (if you do it in a bball gym) is to have your ME jumps be lob dunks - this way you get practice dunking and ME jumps at the same time...  Course you have to know how to throw a lob...

Banded DB or KB swings are a useful exercise but I don't know if I consider it a great substitute.  Many coaches swear by clean and snatch high pulls (where you accelerate the bar and let go of it) as a substitute and it makes sense... However, it's technically harder to learn to accelerate a barbell than it is a ball so I don't like them as much - Also you need a gym where you can drop the bar and I don't know if you have this...

As far as ball tosses... I like doing them outdoors but of course I live in Socal where it's never rainy.  You CAN do them inside.  If you don't have enough space you can do them anywhere where you have a sturdy wall behind you.   I prefer a 12lb ball but if you are limited for space you can get a heavier ball and as long as you have about 10 yards distance from the wall you can make your goal to hit as high on the wall as possible...  Just make sure you have a heavy enough ball and enough distance that it's something challenging that you can improve on.   You can also do them from your knees which will really decrease the distance that you need to have - just make sure your on a soft surface or have knee pads - this can hurt.  You can work on a toss from the knees where you land in a half squat after the release.

92
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High
« on: August 16, 2016, 09:28:48 am »
Quote from: seifullaah73 on August 15, 2016, 02:24:15 pm
Quote from: adarqui on August 14, 2016, 01:46:12 am
hey seifullaah, just curious.. does your coach ever have you race anyone? Not a full race but, maybe just short accelerations, a segment after a fly in, etc. any kind of drills like that? if so, why not? I never see you mention it, that's why i'm asking.

also feel better mang.. seems like a bunch of people have sick-symptoms lately. I felt a little weird to yesterday.

pc!!

Thanks!  :highfive:

No. The coach doesn't ask me to race people, as im the only one there he trains rather than a group. So there is no one to do small races against. There are other people who use it on one day but they have their own training group, who keep to themselves, you have to be a member and all that stuff, but the other day I train, there is noone training there but disabled people who use like a modified cycle to help them use their legs.

You can't get into the group training?

Agree with Andrew.  You absolutely will benefit from running w others...  Even if it's not races.  Running w speed teaches speed.

93
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: ADARQ's journal
« on: August 16, 2016, 09:19:40 am »
Quote from: adarqui on August 15, 2016, 02:06:57 pm
Quote from: T0ddday on August 15, 2016, 04:40:05 am
Is self lobbing for a sl jump just as easy for you?

i think so. tbh it might be a little easier because of the horizontal distance I get with single leg jumping. When starting to train SLRVJ in late 2011/2012, even in my first few sessions I literally caught some lobs around the outside of the paint. That is very difficult for me to do with DLRVJ because I just don't have that kind of horizontal distance with double leg jumping.

so ya, just as easy or slightly easier.

pc!

Wow. Ok in reading this and your post to scooby I realized one reason the self lob is so important...

It's for training.  My most impressive dunks are done off one or two steps.  And it's because my one or two step vertical with ball and without ball is probably about 41/38 on my best day...  I can get great dunk practice and jump work in at the same time...

But as Raptor pointed out I jump much lower with ball than without ball... At a full run up my vertical with and without ball has peaked out at about 45/39 and this 6 inch difference is pretty appalling.... That's why for me to get ME jump training and dunk practice I have to get in a bunch of head to rim jump attempts after my dunks... With the self lob you can do a dunk session and get practice at dunks and ME jumping all at the same time... Really seems like a big advantage to decrease volume and still get training... Of course for me lob practice right now involves mostly not even jumping but when I return to dunking I promise an earnest attempt at learning to lob...

94
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 16, 2016, 09:10:58 am »
Quote from: maxent on August 15, 2016, 09:46:18 am
Watched olympics tonight... saw some 200m heats .. holy moly are these some beautifully built human specimens. I couldnt stand watching olympics before, too much shitty swimming .. but finally saw real olympians and it was impressive af. those massive legs .. and that's on the females lol. how. i want that. time to do some squats ;(

i ate 1 shake for meal 1. and for dinner i had 250g of chicken breast, 1 shake, and 500g of khichri which is a rice/lentil dish .. delicious but i have no idea about the macros... oh well doesnt matter

That's the thing that's 1000x better about being a sprinter than a basketball player...

Your female counterparts are beautiful and much more capable training partners!  Helps that their isn't a different sized ball.

95
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 16, 2016, 08:54:12 am »
Quote from: LBSS on August 16, 2016, 07:58:13 am
bill simmons is definitely racist, but i don't take his "what if" thing about iverson that way. to me it's more just a way of trying to appreciate or describe obliquely iverson's unbelievable combination of quickness, hand-eye coordination, body awareness, and intelligence.

of course hypotheticals like that don't hold much water, in the same way that "randy moss would have been better if he hadn't smoked so much weed" or "usain bolt is lazy he could have run sub-9.5 if he weren't so lazy" don't. still kind of fun to think about iverson growing up in liverpool and spending his career going head-to-head with zidane.

I find those hypotheticals subtlety racist because they usually suggest that black athletes are lazy but naturally talented and if they only worked hard (which is of course something innate to whiteness) they would be so much better...

If you see my post about Felix - I strongly believe that there are world class athletes of all races that are so gifted that they are on the worlds stage despite suboptimal training... Naively we would assum you don't get to be great without almost perfect genetics and almost perfect environment (training) but there are athletes who could be even better... BUT...  I don't think a coach who recognizes that is being racist (he might be arrogant about his coaching skills which you can accuse me of) as long as he realizes it's not laziness that keeps world class athletes from sometimes fulfilling their potential but just improper training.   I believe if Allyson Felix trained differently and kept up her 200 she could run a faster 400... But I know she pukes constantly at practice... She not lazy... She just trains incredibly hard not always in the optimal way...

I don't know if I posted this before here before but this is my favorite example of this subtle racism used by sports commentators:

http://www.espn.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/14097/colin-jones-continues-to-impress

This is an article about maybe the greatest freak athlete I have seen in person.  Colin Jones the safety for the Panthers.  This is a the kid who was shown the bench press as a freshman and threw up two plates.  Who had to run a 100m as a fourteen year old in basketball shoes and ran low 11.  Just that kid who is completely gifted.  Ran a 4.34 at the combine at 6' 220...

This is in the article:

"Not the fastest or the most athletic, but he works hard and he makes plays. "

Why would this statement be there?  Oh... Cause he is white.  Yes, I do think racism can be displayed by a white person talking about another white person..

This is my problem with comments that suggest that Iverson could have been good at anything... They sound flattering but IMO they are suggestive of a racial stereotype where black people have God given taken that provides them with an advantage in all sports while white people work hard.  It's also insulting to the actual performers of the sport to take questions about Tim Tebow and baseball and things of this nature.  The fact is that Allen Iverson or anybody couldn't have been great at all sports - because at the highest level sports require specific characteristics that's it's extremely unlikely are possessed by any individual across sports.  For example Allen Iverson had extremely long arms and big hands.  Multiple standard deviations always from the mean.  To be a successful boxer you have to take a punch - like hand size this is an untrainable characteristic...  You think he was also multiple standard deviations from the mean here too?  Unlikely.  You think he was multiple standard deviations from the mean for all characteristics for all sports? Impossible...

That said - I'm totally in love with your image of Iverson playing soccer with Zidane.  Iverson in a long sleeve jersey with his incredible ball skills... When you restrict that analogy to two sports that are actually somewhat similar it's totally awesome to speculate...

But lets just amend the reason we think Iverson would be so great at soccer to include "appreciate or describe obliquely iverson's unbelievable combination of quickness, hand-eye coordination, body awareness, and intelligence, and incredible WORK ETHIC. 

*not trying to give you a hard time or call you racist btw.  You respond extremely well to racism and don't take things personal which I appreciate... It's just you brought up my least favorite claim by one of the more annoying racist sports commentators...

96
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 16, 2016, 08:26:21 am »
Quote from: adarqui on August 16, 2016, 12:43:45 am
Quote from: acole14 on August 15, 2016, 10:33:22 pm
Quote from: adarqui on August 15, 2016, 10:12:16 pm
OMFG THAT DIVE.. amazing women's 400m final.

Aghh, I wish she hadn't fallen and won it running through....she might have got it anyway but I've seen it happen where a dive at the finish probably makes the difference.

ya after watching the replay, it looked like she didn't need to dive. when I saw it live, it looked like the dive won it for her. When Felix was coming back to (almost?) take the lead, it was nuts - i was freaking out.

Yeah... Hard to say about the dive... Personally not a fan of diving... It can win a race in hurdles or slower races - women's 400m is certainly borderline...  I mean Felix is running a probably around 13 sec hundred pace at the end of the race...  Between 7-8 meters a second, does diving really make a difference then?  I dunno if it actually does BUT it is probably better than a mistimed lean!

Funny that Felix is brought up in a thread where the side conversation is athletic potential...

I'm sorry but her race strategy and training is terrible.  Felix jogged 48.x in the semi. She is a 21.x 200m runner.  With the right training she could easily go 47.9.  Her coach Bobby Kersee really isn't getting the most out of her IMO.  I've done a ton of training with the members of the group and his basic strategy to making athletes is to get fast athletes and make them run around and around and around the track.  It's speed endurance to death.  Then he gives them the same failed race strategy lashawn Merrit used - just wait and rely on the fact that you have more endurance and will be fresh in the end... Well it doesn't work in the 200 and it doesn't always work anymore in the 400m... Merritt's case is excusable cause he lost to a WR - but Felix lost to a 49.5 which is nothing for her...  She waited, sized her up and looked far better finishing... But that didn't win her the race...  I'm not surprised because she did hardly any speed work leading up to the olympics.  What is sad is I know her coach convinced her not to double 200/400 and focus on the 400 for a guarenteed medal... How ironic that had she kept the 200 she probably wouldn't have neglected the speed work she needed to win the 400...

97
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 15, 2016, 09:16:30 pm »
Quote from: acole14 on August 15, 2016, 08:51:51 pm
Quote from: LBSS on August 15, 2016, 04:43:17 pm
let's not forget about AI. i remember years ago bill simmons making the argument that iverson, had he grown up in a different place or chosen a different direction as a kid, could have been one of the greatest soccer players of all time, one of the greatest welterweight boxers of all time, one of the greatest cornerbacks of all time, one of the greatest tennis players of all time, one of the greatest (insert non-height/weight-dependent identity here) of all time. he was a freak's freak.

cool to learn about don bradman. gonna need to know about him in pakistan, they're nuts for cricket over there.

I actually was going to mention AI as being one of those what-if athletes. Watched a good documentary about him the other week.

Yeah Bradman is basically considered a god in India, although you'd hear about Sachin Tendulkar a lot more. Probably similar in Pakistan I would think.

I really don't get the point of what if athletes?  I feel like it is just something an idiot who never played sports would say.   I mean Bill Simmons gotta be the most sneaky racist guy I like ever seen.  My 93 year old Irish grandmother is less racist than him.

Iverson would be a great welterweight?  Yeah... Unless he has a glass jaw.  Which you have no idea about...

Iverson would be a champion tennis player?  Yeah because Roger Federer certainly uses Iverson like court speed to play tennis and Feds short arms which he uses to return body serves look just like AI. 

I think this is just annoying armchair analysis that unathletic racist people lump on athletes to sneakily take away a little of our accomplishments.  You don't hear them saying this about white players ever. 

Allen Iverson was a gym rat.  He worked incredibly hard on his game.  He was a six foot scoring champ.  You gotta work so damn hard to accomplish that.  How bout we just give him credit for that instead of diminishing all his accomplishments but suggesting he had some universal athletic gift that doesn't exist and would have been good at everything easily. 

98
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 15, 2016, 02:46:51 pm »
Quote from: acole14 on August 15, 2016, 08:29:17 am
Quote from: T0ddday on August 15, 2016, 04:20:38 am
Lol I'd argue the opposite.  Lebrons finals performance of leading both teams in every category and coming back from 3-1 might put him in the running for being one of the greatest sportsmen but he will never be close to the greatest athlete because he will never try not be tested as he is a basketball player... 

Lebron certainly is tall, strong, fast, and able to jump high.  From th eye test you can imagine he could make a great football player or track athlete - but as his potential will never be tapped it is pure speculation...


Of course you do! Haha. That's why the forum has been so much fun lately. I personally just can't put LeBron top 5 all-time as a sportsman (yet). That series was his magnum opus no doubt, but it's one series in his career. If GSW are as good as advertised and he beats them again then he's easily in there. But it's so crowded at the top. Jordan, Ali, any one of Pele/Maradona/Messi, Don Bradman (google him, statistically off the charts in a sport played by tens of millions that hasn't changed fundamentally for centuries), any one of Federer/Nadal/Djokovic and now Bolt...all from sports where the barriers to entry are low and are played at least throughout the developed world and some developing regions. Not even mentioning Gretzky or any NFL all-timers whose sport is restricted to certain populations.

Athletically though, sure, speculation between sports is so difficult because of the demands on time for each sport. It's still fun though. I agree that Ashton Eaton is the greatest tested athlete of all time essentially by definition. For me LeBron is a top 5 what-if athlete.

I don't disagree that Lebron might not be a top five sportsman yet... Moreso just that he will never be a top five athlete because he isn't tested...

I've heard of Bradman and he certainly was great.  I'm just averse to having athletes on the list who played before civil rights personally.  Besides that your list is pretty good although I think being a sportsman is not just being good at the game but being transcendent in multiple ways.   That's why any list without the late Muhhamed Ali is a shame!  He is maybe the most important athlete of all time...

99
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: ADARQ's journal
« on: August 15, 2016, 04:40:05 am »
Is self lobbing for a sl jump just as easy for you? 

100
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 15, 2016, 04:20:38 am »
Quote from: acole14 on August 15, 2016, 02:36:32 am
Quote from: maxent on August 15, 2016, 01:19:35 am
LMAO i have a strong prejudice against olympic swimming because of the australian obsession with the 'sport' .. even worse than acole i think, cos I dont even try to be balanced about it. bolt all the way. However, i love the idea of comparing athletes .. who is the greatest of all time? Who even makes the top 5? Does Lebron make the cut?

Greatest athlete of all time (i.e. pure athletic ability) or greatest sportsman? LeBron probably makes the cut on the former but not the latter (yet).

Lol I'd argue the opposite.  Lebrons finals performance of leading both teams in every category and coming back from 3-1 might put him in the running for being one of the greatest sportsmen but he will never be close to the greatest athlete because he will never try not be tested as he is a basketball player...  It's something your either love or hate but there are a few sports will the skill component is so high and the season is so grueling that athletic players simply have to spend so much time on technical skill, recovery and strategy that there leaves no room for anything else... Really the only two off hand I can think of is basketball and maybe a soccer midfielder...

Lebron certainly is tall, strong, fast, and able to jump high.  From th eye test you can imagine he could make a great football player or track athlete - but as his potential will never be tapped it is pure speculation...

Because it's so important to be able to score a ball in the hoop as a basketball player the sport is really an athletic version of archery...  I mean at the end of last season it seemed pretty apparent how much better Steph Curry was than Lebron and this is based on nothing more than being better at making shots... That is however, the name of the game and players must prioritize it...  It's a wonder they still seem so athletic despite the fact that they can't put a premium on it... I mean Russell Westbrook seems like an amazing athlete - but where would he be if he was a 60% free throw shooter and knocked down open threes at 20%?   Actually being good at basketball doesn't have that much to do with athletic ability - we can see proof of this when professional Dunkers out NBA guys to shame in a skill that is actually semi relevant to the game (dunking).

As far as greatest athlete of all time... Maybe this is taking the easy way out... But IMO the greatest endurance athletes are top triathletes and the greatest overall athlete is Ashton Eaton... I mean hos event is really the only that truly tests exactly what an athlete is across multiple tests of ability and he is clearly King.

One thing that absolutely totally SUCKS is that SA is stupid and didn't field a 4x400m team for these olympics.  They had one w pistorius but didn't get their act together this year.  God I would have loved to watch WVN run a 42.5 anchor leg and shock at least a few countries. Instead we won't see him on a big stage for probably a year.  Depressing.

101
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 15, 2016, 04:06:28 am »
Quote from: maxent on August 15, 2016, 03:07:11 am
Thank you. I will do submax jumping and bounding, better than nothing and probably better than trying to do too much or too little!

I wouldn't drop max jumping.  I would if your goal was simply basketball, but let's be honest your goal isn't truly to be the best basketball player that you can be - that might entail becoming mastering the comer three - your goal is to become the best dunking basketball player possible!

Games are great but to keep your bounce up I would prioritize over all things (even squats) your ME jumps during the season...  Games jumps are not truly ME. You could use submax double leg bounds and some single leg jumps (for example single leg jumps across the key) as part of your warmup for your vertical ME jumping sessions on a basketball court.  I wouldn't do submax single leg bounds on hardwood though... 

Get in at least one and maybe two jump sessions in per week.  Something like 20-30 vertical or one step jumps (can be dunks) and 10-20 max approach jumps in.  Don't do all of them as dunks because you want to increase your max leap without a ball to push up your ceiling..  You could for example do head to rim or head to backboard attempts if their isn't a hard to reach object available in the gym...

As far as submax single leg bounds - use them as part of your warmup IFF you make it to a track or field for some sprint work.  For you I would prioritize alternate leg bounds here.  Remember short max sprints are still somewhat submax for you - but long sprints need to be slow to keep them useful for recovery rather than detrimental...

You have the right idea.  Just remember for your goals, when your in bball season and work capacity is limited due to gameplay your priority list should always include ME vertical jumps, followed by maintenance weight training, followed by recovery runs and sprints. 


102
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 15, 2016, 12:23:18 am »
Quote from: maxent on August 14, 2016, 11:59:07 pm
Quote from: T0ddday on August 14, 2016, 05:08:51 pm
Quote from: maxent on August 13, 2016, 10:51:06 pm
BW: 78.9kg /

Kinda did a refeed last night so that would explain the 'spike'. But I look leaner for what it's worth. So when i shed this water weight im prob closer to 77kg than i have been in a while.

Not as sore as i expected. I thought i'd be a zombie today haha. May go pickup :) But sometimes these doms creep up on ya through the day and over 48hrs so that may still happen.

I'm thinking ive got a nice mix of training going now. Have included all these new exercises and im hitting PC/quads/bball/jumping/upper body/explosive/etc. Am dialed in on nutrition too and sticking to my 2cbpd thing as well. The only change im making is cutting out fast food / processed food in the next week. Wanna get rid of this gross hourglass shape asap before season starts mid sept.

Watch this space! In the future i wanna do more including:
- shorter sprints with more recovery
- boudns and stuff and throws (to make t0ddday happy)

im on track to curl 60kg for worksets which is good news for my girly 12" arms! quads may just grow now with partial squats hitting them pretty good. recovering ground on PC as well. Want to be repping 200kg for RDLs and BHTs. Squats are fucking embarassing right now but im convinced im on the right track with doing lots more volume. backoff sets of 6x6 for a start then i need to be using that amount of volume with heavier weight 120-130kg instead of ~100

Lol thanks for the mention!  But when you say season is starting I'm not sure if I'd recommend adding much bounding at this point... I mean I don't know what season is... If it's once a week games or something or practice and games multiple times a week... If it's the latter... I'd focus on keeping non basketball work to be pretty low impact... It sounds like your getting pretty good at basketball and from what you post this seems to be a big priority - I wouldn't want you to sabotage that...

I think i will be playing 1x a week but possibly 2x if i keep playing with my current team (not sure .. it's pretty bad lol). We'll see. And yeah practice 1x a week on top. It's a long season, 15wks .. so if it turns out we are a shit team i may not take it that seriously but i am hoping it will be decent because it's prob the best competition ive played in .. so that's exciting. I need to do a lot of work though, get in shape, work on my skills... not much time left (mid sept).

Yeah... If it is really intense then I wouldn't recommend adding much reactive work to your program especially if your going to insist on lifting heavy as well... Especially not for 15 weeks... Something like this would be best IMO:

2x a week games
1x a week practice
1x a week weights heavy
1x a week weights light
1x a week sprints
1-2x a week shoot around and basketball specific jumping

I mean considering a game is basically an intense workout... Your quickly at 5-6 workouts a week without an bounding in earnest... If you like bounding nothing wrong with utilizing it in your warmup and going submax (you will still get better doing this) but one thing you have to learn is priorities as an athlete.  You can't prioritize everything but you don't have to drop everything, you can continue to lift but you can put things on pause or maintenance... All good multifaceted athletes learn this.  In the long run this is key.  For example if your max squat is 405, you can keep a lot of strength getting in the gym a couple times a week and working up to an easy explosive 315-365 and still become the athlete you want to be... But you can't curse yourself for missing PR attempts of 410...  You can treat bounding like this as well...

The basic idea is that you have to warmup before you train so why not get better at something at the same time...  Say you want to do some vertical training or lifting or ball... You could jog and break a sweat and be ready... Or you could do a bunch of hops and high volume alternate leg plant jumps and then get into it...

103
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 14, 2016, 10:56:45 pm »
Quote from: adarqui on August 14, 2016, 10:16:14 pm

so crazy.. was shocking.. he just kept flying the last 100m.

ya i've never run track so i don't REALLY know the significance of lane 8.. must be hard af (nearly impossible) to mostly "race yourself" and still get a WR.

Yeah, traditionally athletes hate to be in the outside.  It depends on the sprinter of course - but since I never had any kick I always wanted to be inside of a rival on the turn, that way I could catch up, pass them, and come into the straight ahead and try to hold on...   Mentally I would always rather give my opponent a "head start" than have a head start and have to run a farther distance after head start.  Basically imagine if you have to race someone equal to yourself...  You can have two choices  - run with a 10m headstart but weights on your body that slow you down by 10m or give him the 10m head start with weights on...  Obviously both are fair but mentally we would rather be the "faster" athlete with the disadvantage than the "slower" athlete with the advantage...

Truth be told though - the farther outside the lane the easier the race.  All things equal you would rather be outside as much as possible because you are running more straights and less curves...   The inside lanes have a sharper curve so you have to turn far more.  IF (and it's a big IF) you can get past the mental block of being ahead and alone on the outside then lane 8 is a big advantage.. I think that's what we just saw.  WVN is so strong that he basically flew out of the blocks and didn't look back  - not having to turn as much as the other athletes provided him with a world record time...   You can really see this when you watch his last turn and how close he was to the inside of his lane the whole time.  Obviously you want to run on the inside of your lane the entire time - BUT on the tight curve you can't produce power and stay inside the whole time, a powerful long stride sends you to the outside in a tight turn and you end up running farther.  Technically WVN DID probably run a shorter total distance than everyone else...  But not cause he ran less than 400m.  Because of the turns nobody can run in exactly the same place in their lane the whole time, maybe WVN ran "only" 402 meters while the others ran 405 meters..


Quote

i was thinking about the possibility of a short track.. deliberate or a mistake. If IOC wanted records to drop, could shorten it slightly every year.. even the pool.

but, in terms of this actual olympics.. I think if the track was actually shorter, we'd see better times in everything.. 10k / 1500m especially, etc. iirc, I don't think we've seen that kind of improvement. Also if it is short, it isn't short where the 100m was... hehe.

i won't even consider it until there's some serious proof floating around.. Niekerk's performance was mindblowing.

pc!

Lol, you never ran track but you just provided the best proof possible as to why the track can't possibly be short.  I didn't even think of the longer races..   The 10k is 25 laps!  If the track was a couple meters short those guys would be running 50m less than usual - they would ALL pr.  If we don't see that we can put to rest the ridiculous idea of a short track...

However, if you want plausible conspiracy theories you can imagine some doctoring that would produce faster times.  The most obvious is having the back straight be slightly downhill.  There is some maximum elevation change that can occur between any two points on the track but you can imagine if you were slightly above the rule you could help guys on the back straight..   The other obvious thing to do is just run from the wrong start points.  The three staggers on most tracks are for 200m (3.5 meters per lane), 400m (7 meters per lane) and 3 turn 4x400 (10.5 meters per lane)...  I have been at all comer meets where they wind was strong so they ran the 200m on the first 200m of the track and accidently used the 400m start lines and everybody PRed..  I still would bet against any such thing happening in rio. 

Sounds more like American haters who can't stand to see Michael Johnsons record broken.  Why should we be surprised when WVN is the ONLY person ever to run sub 10, sub 20 and sub 44...  IMO that alone makes him arguably the greatest - I'm hoping he adds the 200m to his events for future competitions and dominantes. 

Also, the IAAF is REALLY strict about sanctioning tracks - they check to make sure the track is super level, measured perfectly, etc.

104
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 14, 2016, 10:21:39 pm »
Quote from: acole14 on August 14, 2016, 09:59:44 pm
Lots of people on letsrun.com claiming the 400m Rio track is short. Might be tin hat but....given the state of preparation for these games....wouldn't be overly shocked if it came out that he only ran 398.7m or something.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7587664&page=31#ixzz4HMMdGePH

100m final was as expected. Below-average start for Bolt as usual but luckily peak Blake/Gatlin/Gay weren't in the race so he could do just enough! De Grasse favourite for 2020.

Let's say Bolt wins the 200m and the 4x100 relay (both highly likely at this stage). Which career Olympic achievement is greater: a possible Bolt triple-triple or Michael Phelps' 23 golds?

Lol track is short?  Only Kirani and Merrit ran no faster...  398.7 meters is 1.3 meters... Lol so at his speed he would have still been likely been under the world record... IMO that's a bit ridiculous...

I don't think it was a lack of peak gatlin or anyone else... I think it just shows that the 100m isn't a 60... It's not a speed test - it's a competition...  I bet if bolt runs 9.6 degrasse and gatlin run 9.7 or 9.8.  Gatlin waited for Bolt...  Hard not to but still very disappointing that he did that and didn't give us a better race...

It's sorta silly to compare Bolt to Phelps... But if your gonna do it... Bolt by a landslide...

Why:

1) Phelps is a swimmer.  Swimming is a sport available to a fraction of wealthy people in the world.  The pool for sprinting is basically every kid who ever played sports.  Talented sprinters are discovered, talented swimmers are developed. 

2) Recovery between swim events is much easier.

3) Swimming has strokes which are far less different than something like sprints and hurdles.  Especially butterfly and freestyle which are extremely similar as far as performance goes...

4) All swim events are essentially speed endurance events.  There is no true sprint.  Bolt dominates a speed endurance event and a top speed event. 

5) Phelps was basically dominant in two events.  100m and 200m butterfly where he owns the world record.  That's it.  And he didn't even win both of those in back to back to back olympics.  His other medals come primarily from relays and medleys which don't really exist in track...

6) Sure phelps made a difference in some relays.  But he is also American and Americans are a dominant force in swimming.  The American team could have picked up many of the relay golds with just about anybody in Phelps spot.  Jamaica in the 4x100m without Bolt would have never won.  Bolt was the team.  In fact Jamacia wasn't really even challenging in the 4x100 until Bolt came along wheras the Americans were the favorite in many relays before phelps and will be after phelps...

7) Bolt has no silvers.  He literally does all the events resonable for his skill and never loses. 

That's my biased answer to a silly question.  Both are great athletes and can't be compared.  Amazing to watch both of them... You could probably make a strong case for phelps too but I'll always be partial to bolt...

105
Sports Discussion / Re: 2016 Rio Olympics - open thread
« on: August 14, 2016, 09:57:25 pm »
Quote from: adarqui on August 14, 2016, 09:06:16 pm
ah.. ^^ 10.0x eek



van niekerk just broke the WR for 400m.. WTF!!  :wowthatwasnutswtf:

poor michael johnson :)

Wow.  Might be the greatest sprint performance ever.  Def the greatest Olympic performance ever.  Out of freaking lane 8!!!

One complaint though... Really hate the scheduling.  Making James and Lashawn run together in same semifinal and push eachother to 44.0 and then have just 24 hours recovery is unfortunate.  Honestly don't think they would have beat WVN... But maybe they would have pushed him to go sub 43... Don't agree with the tight schedule...

Especially the 100m semi and final only separated by an hour...  These deep fields make the top guys have to push harder in the semis than usually...  They should get more recovery so we can see great times... Really was a disappointing final.  I guess it does show how intimidating bolt is and does display that 100m really is a sport and not just a test of speed though...  Gatlin basically ran around waiting for Bolt...

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