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Messages - vag

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796
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 17, 2020, 07:22:58 am »
^^^^^
lolololol  ;D :P  :highfive: ( adarq, we need the happycry emoji )

Curious to see their face after this though:

16 May 2020

TIME TRIAL 5K 23:42 , ALL TIME  :personal-record: :ibrunning: :personal-record: :ibrunning: :personal-record: :ibrunning:
Didn't even feel like i maxed my potential. Was just a good day, not a perfect one. I feel i can challenge breaking 23:00 in a well peaked race.
Still, delighted that i broke the 4:45 average.
SUCK IT WATCH!!!  :raging: :raging: :raging:
Ridiculous fact: after the run watch says estimated 5K race time : 27:20  :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
Oh well, glad we sorted it out. Now i know my estimation of fitness/max ability was spot on and watch's VO2max/race estimates are just rough indications that shouldn't be taken seriously.
Carry on.

797
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 15, 2020, 05:19:47 am »
^^^^
Haha, thanks man, you bet i will, check how the saga continues :

14 May 2020

EASY RUN 6.5K @ 45:!6
-Decided to not look watch at all. Just go at a pace that feels 'easy', not slow but not pushing either and whatever happens. Expected it to land around 7:00/km which is exactly what happened, average pace was 7:01. Average heart rate was 155 , a little more than how easy it felt but it was also 25' / 80% humidity so that probably worsened things a bit.

Watch workout benefit assessment : VO2max  :o :o :o
VO2max down to 39 , estimated race 5K time up tp 27:40  :o :o :o :o :o
I guess that either someone from Garmin is reading the forum so he hardcodes false numbers in my watch for fun, or it is just broken.  :uhhhfacepalm:

798
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 14, 2020, 06:35:05 am »
^^^
Well what do you know, those 'reverse pec decks' destroyed my back. Both lats and Trapezius. Rethinking it, that exercise, if done right, is actually a horizontal row, but excluding legs help and biceps help. It is all back, and it is pretty heavy too , BW or even half of it is a lot of weight to row with back isolated. NICE!


13 May 2020

LONG SLOW RUN 7K @ 59:17
Watch workout benefit assessment :  Base, agree (finally)!!!

So i went even slower this time, i would check watch very often and slow down or even walk whenever HR got over 140. And it worked.
So watch will now appreciate the easy work , recovery will be included in its algorithm and VO2max will start climbing again.
Right?? Right???
WROOOOONG, watch says VO2max dropped even more to 40 now , estimated 5K race time is now 27:15
FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU  :raging: :ffffffuuuuuu: :raging: :ffffffuuuuuu: :raging: :ffffffuuuuuu:

I am really annoyed with that situation. You expect from the top model of the top brand to be better than this BS. How is it even humanly possible, the same watch said i was at VO2 44 with an estimated 5K PR @ 24:35 just 2 weeks ago. And those 2 weeks i cut down on intense stuff, i should be even better.

On the other hand, it is good timing that the readings now seem so far off at this moment, because i can benchmark it, unlike when you have readings in the middle. That way i will know if this VO2max/current 5K PR assessment is total BS , somwhere in the middle, or even accurate and i have no clue of whats going on to my body.
So I will keep my schedule as it was , today is 45 mins 'easy' run , tomorrow is rest and Saturday is 5K time trial. I say i am more fit than ever, good for sub-25, maybe even PR. Watch says i am worse than ever , i would do over 27 minutes in a RACE omg. One of us is going down bad.
Game on!  8)

799
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: May 14, 2020, 06:16:08 am »
Just as a aid for my ongoing mission to evaluate garmin readings, what is your average heart rate on an 'easy' day, those routine comfy-to-slow 10Ks?

800
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 13, 2020, 05:38:48 am »
Yes, but i am fine with that, i wouldn''t expect it to be that accurate.
I am very annoyed on the workout assessment though. Because, like all articles too, watch insists on how essential easy work is. And now my whole plan seems unbalanced because of the absence of them, but how can you not recognize as 'base' workout one that had average heart pace 137 and was done at a pace of 8:00 while 2 days before i did 800m sprints@ 4:40??? I mean come on watch, it is way too easy to catch that, id have a junior developer assigned on that algorithm. Anyway. Im keeping my plan of 1 fast per week and all the others slow/easy, let's hope watch will catch up.


12 May 2020

Last weights session was 11 March. I don't know when i will be able or willing to go to the gym again (currently still closed although lockdown has ended, gyms theaters malls bar restaurants still closed, but even if they open do you really want to be in there? ). Anyway 2 months is a lot, enough is enough, gotta do whatever i can @home.

BW SQUATS:
3x20 paused ATG
2x10 each leg single leg @parallel box

PUSHUPS: 5x12

'BW Reverse pec deck' 5x12   :huh:

Everything so rusty and difficult. Quads cramped after 2x20 BW squats lol , while 12 pushups were pretty challenging at the last 2 sets, i grinded the final reps.  :uhhhfacepalm:
As for that 'reverse peck deck', I saw it at some quarantine workouts article and i really liked it coz i dont have a pullup bar and it seemed great idea like rows or something and now i can't even find it at all on the whole internet. You just stand with your back to a wall and do that reverse pec deck pushing your BW with your elbows ( back muscles). I did it in the door case, for added ROM. Lets all forget i even bothered lol

801
Shoes / Re: Running shoe for every day training, mostly easy and tempo/HIIT workouts.
« on: May 13, 2020, 04:57:04 am »
^^^
Hey, VERY nice shoe the Kinvara 11. Awesome reviews too , except from the fact that its outsole is actually the cushion, too little rubber sole. Granted i run all my mileage on asphalt and pavement, im worried about durability, although reviews say it doesn't wear much.

Also, i found the pegasus turbo 2 is out there, havent noticed it earlier : https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2019/09/nike-zoom-pegasus-turbo-2-review/
The runningshoesguru review is not that enthusiastic, they say it is a great shoe but not worth the high price, but that refers to the 180 retail price, it is much much cheaper out there. Other sites reviews are more positive. Most important, what they all like most is that this show seems that to fall more in the 'cushioned' category, but with a very fast bouncy responsive cushion and lightweight materials. Might be just what i want.

So it looks like i am down to 3 options that all fit my specs:

Kinvara 11 : actually a lightweight fast shoe but somehow with more cushioned ride than its category. Price ~110
Pegasus Turbo 2 : actually a cushioned shoe but somehow very fast and not heavy. Price ~140 , you don't get to ride the vaporfly's zoomX for free lol.
Pegasue 37 : exactly in the middle, an everyday trainer balancing cushion and speed. Price ~110 ( might be lower, not released yet, only price available is in nikes store ).

Currently im leaning towards the Turbos. A fast responsive and not overweight cushioned one seems better matching my specs than an almost racer but with some good cushion (kinvara) or a medium-at-everything (pegasus 37). Plus you know i dig the (gimmick alert, marketing victim alert ) high tech stuff, the combination of zoomX & react has me drooling haha. Only the carbon plate/spring missing.
But really, I would be perfectly happy and excited with any of the 3 choices. I will be watching for a good sale/deal on any of them and hit it when i see it.

802
Shoes / Running shoe for every day training, mostly easy and tempo/HIIT workouts.
« on: May 12, 2020, 07:46:12 am »
So i am searching for new running shoes. I already have an almost new pair of fast lightweight racing flats. So im looking for a durable one for everyday training. Cushioned to save my old rusty legs but also somewhat lightweight, with a fast responsive ride, able to perform well for faster paces, tempo, HIIT etc. I decided to take a break from Adidas boost this time, the aforementioned race flats are boosts anyway lol. I was looking for Nikes, they seem to have done some really good tech advance lately. I ended up with those:
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2020/02/nike-react-infinity-run-flyknit-review/ : Cushion oriented. Ultra durable and comfy. Probably too slow.
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/2019/08/nike-zoom-fly-3-review/ : Speed oriented. Probably not good for long slow runs.
https://www.runningshoesguru.com/overview/nike-zoom-pegasus-37/ : All around

I wont lie, i have a serious itch to get the flys, they are a durable affordable version of the vaporflys, and you get the carbon plate/spring for 130-140 euros. But it is not what i need, damn it :(
Even tempted to buy 2 pairs, the infinity for long slow and the flys for fast. But it's too much. Ill have to wait to get the carbon plate shit later, when i bottom out my boost racers.
Ill most probably get the pegasus 37 now, model has just been released, not even available in Greece yet. It features this new react foam and seems to have a perfect balance between cushion, responsiveness, durability, weight, speed, plus some supposedly badass fit system.
You running guys have anything else to propose for those specs?

803
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 12, 2020, 07:43:26 am »
11 May 2020

LONG SLOW RUN 6.77K @ 55:51
-Went with a double target. Pace around 8:00/km and keep heart rate under 140.
Ended up with an average 8:15/km pace and 137bpm average heart rate.
Great, was bored to death going so slow and easy but i had to stick to the plan, got it right, watch will appreciate the base/recovery effort and VO2 max / training status will start rising.
Right, right? WRONG!
Watch workout benefit assessment :  Pace (medium intensity for long courses ). VO2max further drop to 41! WTF!!!!!
Garmin, y u no understand workouts?  :ffffffuuuuuu: :ffffffuuuuuu: :ffffffuuuuuu:

804
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: May 11, 2020, 11:06:02 am »
^^^
Really? I'm glad, hope it works too!  :highfive:

805
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 10, 2020, 05:28:39 am »
9 May 2020

VO2max workout

-Jog 1K
-SPRINT 4x800m / 3-4 mins walking revovery.
-Jog 1K
Goal pace for sprints was 5:00. I got 4:46 / 4:35 / 4:57 / 4:52. 4:35 was mostly downhill so it was intended , the other ones  just went a bit faster.
Watch workout benefit assessment :  Anaerobic , agree.

Watch insists my fitness is down coz im doing too much intense stuff. Ill do only easy/slow this week, next intense = next weekend. Maybe do a flat5K time trial then, see what happens.

806
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: May 10, 2020, 05:23:22 am »
Sorry to hear. One of the big 'jokes' here is that post-covid we will have a divorce pandemic.
Give yourself a few days to relax, for thoughts to settle, for intense emotions to weaken, for blood to cool. Then re-think everything. The more time passes, the more logic takes over.
I understand it is highly awkward doing all that while living together, if you can somehow detach yourself from being in there, travel elsewhere with your mind, maybe it would help.
2c

807
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 08, 2020, 06:40:04 am »
7 May 2020

Long slow run 11K @ 1:25:17 , LIFETIME distance and duration double :personal-record: :ibrunning: :personal-record: :ibrunning:
Goal pace was 7:45 , got it exactly on the second, dayumn boi, u pace good!

Watch workout benefit assessment :  limit, muscle endurance and fatigue resistance.  Probably right. It felt easy all the way, always felt like i had a sprint under my legs, wasn't beat at the end. However it was 90 minutes with average heart rate at 147 ( 80%max ) and the first time i ever did so long, so i guess it's fair to say it was limit.

Watch says VOmax is down to 42 and that i am horribly unbalanced because of no low intensity work. It is sooo wrong, both those > hour runs were easy. I would have preferred if average heart rate was 10bpm lower at each, but i am absolutely sure they had significant impact on aerobic base.
I'm resting today and I'm doing VO2max pace workout tomorrow, watch won't know what hit it and where that capacity came from haha  8)

808
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 06, 2020, 12:01:44 pm »
^^^
So true, let's see if i can move right towards that direction.

Introducing pace targets at my workouts, using calculator provided by LBSS : https://www.runnersworld.com/uk/training/a761676/rws-training-pace-calculator/

My standard training course has proven to be accurately/constantly 3 minutes slower than race PR for 5K so i used the slow times at this calculator, since i train at this course. If i go to a flat course i will recalculate.
Also, of course i will be talking those numbers with a grain of salt, 'easy' , 'tempo', 'long slow' should also be evaluated by feel.
However, after the 2 workouts that i will log below, i gotta say it was shocking how accurate the calculator was, those paces felt exactly how they were supposed to!


4 May 2020

-Run 2K easy
-TEMPO RUN 3K @ 5:39 5:41 5:43 , target was 5:40 , bull's eye!
-Run 2K easy
TOTAL 7K @ 46:03

Really nice that tempo thing. Was good for faster but kept it by the book Happy that i didn't even have to walk at the end, just slowed down and kept jogging. Might try 5:30 next time.
Watch workout benefit assessment :  VO2max , agree.


5 May 2020

'Easy run' 10K @ 1:08:05 , 2020 distance and duration  :personal-record:
Goal pace was 6:45 , got 6:48 , bull's eye.

Watch workout benefit assessment :  VO2max. Don't know. It felt easy. I was still kinda fresh at the end. But average HR was 157 (85%max) , for the the last half hour it was 165 ( about 90% ), i guess that is pretty intense. Didn't feel like that at all though, never went out of breath, never felt like quitting.

809
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: May 05, 2020, 05:36:07 am »
^^^^
Nice info, thanks. Also thanks for the calculator link in your journal, didn't reply there to not dirty it further lol.
I agree that week cycles are far easier to follow. I'm ok with less days cycles too though, especially when they are so simple like the ones i posted. Iteration 1 : workaout 1a , workout 1b. Iteration 2 : workout 2a workout 2b. Repeat. Still, with week cycles you are in good hold of extra parameters. e.g. if u want to rest Sunday, rest day will always be Sunday on week cycle, with other days that cant happen.

Anyway, cutting to the chase:
After reading some more, it seems that my current plan is seriously unbalanced. Watch kept saying it but i was ignoring it. I am doing way too much intense stuff. Gotta add much more easy/slow volume. As always i have a problem keeping intensity volume low.
Here is a Garmin graph of my workload distribution the last month, Greek words in legend mean "optimal range" :

Purple is anaerobic ( 2-3 times above optimal )
Orange is intense aerobic ( 2-3 times above optimal )
Green is easy aerobic/base ( 3-4 times below optimal )
I mean , COME ON!

Ok, so im switching to 2:1 from the options i gave.
Plan is : Tempo-easy-off / HIIT-long-off / repeat
If i do another one, so one of those cycles gets a third workout in row, it will be either easy or long slow, probably the latter. Also easy and long slow mileage will go up. Easy runs will be around 10K at easy pace (so about 1 hour) and long slow ones will target 90 minutes at slow pace, whatever mileage that lands at. Gonna go like this for a while and see what happens.

In other news, the other day that i did the mile time trial and PR, i wore my racing flats. Although they have much less boost, they were sooo much more comfy and bouncy than the everyday ones. So i checked and i realized my everyday boosts have done about 700km, 90% of what on pavement and asphalt. I gotta buy new shoes. I'm a boost kid but i gotta tell you, i am eyeing the vaporflys, high tech performance enhancing soles have always made me drool lol.

810
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: May 04, 2020, 07:49:15 am »
Quote from: LBSS on May 02, 2020, 07:57:44 am
- warm up x 2 km; tempo x 3 km [4:12, 4:17, 4:06]; cool down x 2.91 km
tempo pace target 4:12 based on my last 5k time. middle km is basically steep downhill for 500m and then steep uphill on the reverse, so i'm not terribly mad about it being a little slow.

I dig the 3K tempo with slower warmup and cooldown. What target pace do you use? Something like current time trial 5K pace? Or a bit slower/faster?

Edit : ok found it! The answer is something like 90%, 15-20 seconds  below 5K race pace and an ideal scheme is the one you do , 2 easy 3 tempo 2 easy.
Surprised i never bumped on such an essential training method. Not removing the comment, this is pretty useful!
https://www.roadrunnersports.com/blog/tempo-run/

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