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Messages - TKXII

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76
Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: How high am I here?
« on: August 11, 2013, 10:44:16 pm »
based on your height, and your head being 30cm away from rim..

2.95m - .30m  = 2.65m = head height after jump

2.65m - 1.82m = .83m.

Head height is probably a more reliable measure than reach, since many people deflate their reach by not trying to reach hard enough.

You've been dunking on this rim for a while right? Why don't you actually just jump up as high as possible with the ball in hand (since I think I read once you said how you cannot jump as high without the ball in your hand), and see how much of your arm you can scrape against the rim... then calculate how high you jump based on where on your arm the rim touched... pretty simple and more accurate than estimating.

Is this a PR for you?

edit: now that I look at it a little more... i could actually believe your head is only 20cm away from the rim. it's just hard to estimate based on that low res picture. And it does look like your feet could be at least 3+ feet off the floor so I could believe it if it was 38, your arm is pretty high after all, definitely about two hands lengths above the rim.

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Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: How high am I here?
« on: August 11, 2013, 11:36:03 am »
33-35?

78
Pics, Videos, & Links / Re: beast
« on: August 09, 2013, 04:45:21 pm »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6L1z7afvB8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6L1z7afvB8</a>

79
it would be even better off of a 12'' box.

same with power cleans.


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Lol I can't believe I'm getting negs for providing an explanation by people who haven't tried it yet hahaha.

I found one more key point about this exercise that makes it valuable for power development.

Upon landing, to reduce the forward momentum (which there is very little of unless you land incorrectly), the kettlebell counterbalances the hips. The hips are back and not moving forward and the kettltbell is in front. The KB is also at nearly head level (but since the knees/hips are flexed it's really not that high).

Upon landing the KB drops from neck head level down to below the legs rapidly as the legs fold into a countermovement jump and I found it today very difficult to do more than 3 reps at a time (kind of like in the video but..). In my video I wasn't trying AS hard to produce power as I did today, but it looks exactly the same.

Anyone who thinks this is easier than a kb swing because i'm using the swing to jump is just plain wrong. There is a LOT of quad/glute action.

Also what type of logic is that seriously? What about reverse band squats? It's the SAME THING. Just because the bands are helping you lift the weight doesn't mean you are not doing anything. It means you must use a more appropriate load. The enhanced acceleration on the concentric provides for good potentiation. I see the same thing happening here.

81
Lol i did not suggest ot as an actual exercise..

Yes it is and i will keep doing it because it feels much more challenging and more specific than an overhead med ball throw or a powerclean.

I've acknowledged some of the points you've made but your contentions which are no more than preconceived notions are just wrong - there is not that muh forward momentum; the stabilization there is pretty easy. There is not much forward momentum because im jumping up. It's much harder to stabilize repeat broad jumps than this.

As far as a comparison to regular swings i would expect some legtimate points rather than a blanket statement to take you seriously. If I dont get that I wont reply because i've explained how this works and you've provided a very incomplete analyais.

Thanks anyway for acknowledging anything i said and actually trying  it and being unbiased!

82
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 06, 2013, 06:50:05 am »
just do some lower intensity exercises. run, just a little, slowly, not fast. And deepbreathing/yoga/meditation. I wouldn't try to actively lower core temp no. but going into an ice bath isn't a bad idea it can be very stimulating though.

83
@LBSS:

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel or do anything beyond what is useful. I simply started doing these one day, and actually liked them quite a bit and think they will work very well. Thus I think they ARE USEFUL FOR ME. Much more than cleans, much more than a regular KB swing, and definitely better than med ball throws.

I go by feel these days. I favor these over cleans because I dislike the way the barbell is in front of my body and with my body structure it's not the best for mimicking vertical but for someone with shorter arms more leg innervation is observed. With me cleans involve a lot of lumbar and pchain. With a regular KB swing and in the kb swinging jump, so much more leg muscle fibers are innervated. That's really why I do it, it just hits my legs harder. Simple, even more than a jump squat, but I like jump squats because I can use more weight.

I feel these are better for my RVJ which involves similar movements in a multiplane fashion near amortization that no exercise other than my RVJ deadlift can provide. Serious. But that does not matter as I already admitted.. consistency with something is key.

@Raptor:

That's actually a decent argument, but since you have not tried the exercises all your judgements are premature. It LOOKS like it's quite submaximal but that's wrong. It's harder than regular swings. I am not just using the kettlbell's swinging momentum to jump. I am using my legs first of all to swing the kettlebell so that comes first. Then I use my legs to swing the kettlebell forward it's not coming from the arms or my back..

No it does not involve maximal power. But compared to a powerclean, i believe this will improve leaping ability way way faster.
I do not think at all this will give me faulty mechanics because I actually feel like I'm jumping!

A couple years ago I released an alternative powerclean exercise that when I went my feel, hit my legs a lot harder. Some of you guys got mad again and said I had shitty form and was reverse curling it. Turns out Joel Smith pretty much came up with the same exercises for similar reasons... it's more specific, and more extension was involved. The point is you cannot judge by looks all the time; if you're going to think the kettlebell is swinging me forward entirely, that's completely wrong. In that video I basically did a kettlebell swing but with a barbell like joel smith did in one of his videos. THe exercise is OK but this is way better.

You'd need emg electrodes, and a tendo to solve this problem and that would easily change everyone's minds (but if we get that equipment and it doesn't... fine but it likely will). But without that, just try it and go by feel. Just like the 1-2 jump squat someone posted earlier, I've been going by feel and came up with that myself as a better jump squat than traditional jump squats. A lot of this stuff, sport "science" is muddled with excess thinking about movements that are natural and quite obvious. I jump with the kettlbell forward and jump. To get more power I swing it. It's simple. But once I'm dunking the results will speak for themselves a little more - but not really because there are people out there who have done really bad exercises that have helped them dunk as well. But still without trying it you're just wrong. I want you two to try this with a decent sized kettlebell then reply back.

Oh and also this is much different of a movement than a regular KB swing. That for me with a 24kg is much easier because I lose acceleration at the top by stopping it slightly. Instead of swinging it, I would have to throw the kettlebell upwards or behind me for a similar effect as these jumps. I can do high reps of regular swing with the same ROM as seen in my video (into about a half squat position but with more hip flexion). Cannot do as many reps as easily with this because more power is involved and fatigue sets in earlier. So no, I WILL NOT get better results with regular swings, overhead throws, and bounds.

84
Responding to everything:

1. Is this better than traditional power exercises?


No. But I believe it can be very effective if the right loading is used. It can at least be a supplement, for now. A 24kg kettlebell is still very light. I have used 100lb DBs before and have found that it hits my legs a lot harder, and there is more extension because the DB does not swing and add momentum.

2. Is this a maximal exercise?


No. If it was I would be jumping further and would have difficulty initiating jumps in succession. However it is quite challenging.

3. Why is there no hip hyperextension or full triple extension?


Partly because this is not a maximal exercise, and partly due to the nature of the equipment used there is no hip hyperextension or full triple extension. If this was a maximal exercise, there would be hip hyperextension and full triple extension just like in a broad jump or a standing vertical jump. Now there are other common power building exercises that can improve leaping power that also do not involve full extension of the hips, knees or ankles.

Olympic cleans, a similar exercise, also do not involve full triple extension or hip hyperextension (the last one is debatable however). Overhead throws involve hip hyperextension but do not involve knee extension in the way it occurs in a vertical jump. Both of these exercises are great for building power, like the kettlebell swinging jump but do not mimic a vertical jump more than this exercise does. Full triple extension or hip hyperextension are not required for this exercise because the power is coming from the bottom of the range of motion, mostly, but not at the top as in a jump squat.

I believe this exercise is much more specific and useful than cleans or overhead throw, but not better than a jump squat. (that's complicated though so let's not discuss that, yes the clean is great for building front squat strength too, an overhead throw hits the hips well... arguing about the specificity of the exercise is probably meaningless, as long as you are jumping and getting stronger in a fashion similar to jumping and are consistent the marginal differences in different power building exercises are not too significant imo, so i'm not saying it's necessarily better but I would do it certainly over cleans or overhead throws anyday).

Due to the nature of the kettlebell, it swings forward upon jumping which allows the athlete to jump further more easily. Thus this exercise certainly is not training the toe-off portion of a jump in the same manner as a jump squat. However, the added momentum of the kettlebell allows the athlete to lift more weight just as in reverse band set ups for any lift, such as the squat. Thus that factor is somewhat irrelevant. Also since the loads upon landing are high, I am not swinging the weight forward with my arms, I am using the power in my legs to lift my body up and forward slightly without allowing the kettlebell to swing forward in a manner that is dangerous and prevents a safe landing and initiation into another jump.


4. How can this exercise benefit athletes more so than other exercises?


Amortization and rate of force absorption in the bottom position of a jump, and rate of force development and power development.

The hardest part about this exercise is not the jump, the hardest part is absorbing force properly in the "hole," at the bottom of the range of motion, the half squat position. Unlike a regular jump, the arms do not swing down as vigorously since there is a kettlebell in the hands, nor do they swing forward aggressively; the momentum of the kettlebell helps drive the body forward, but it is really the hips that are doing most of the moving of the weight. Since the arms cannot swing behind the body like a regular vertical jump, the legs aren't absorbing a s much force as possible, however with the right size kettlebell, it will be a challenge that can provide an overload that can improve vertical jump just as well as other exercises. The jumping portion of the exercise is not easy either; the athlete should expect to feel fatigue in all parts of the quads, as well as the glutes, in a manner that I would guess is similar to the overhead med ball throw.

With a dumbell the exercise I would argue is more difficult on the concentric phase, but easier on the eccentric force absorption phase. Balancing is also more difficult with the kettlebell upon landing.

5. Key tips about performing this exercise correctly:


Raptor mentioned something about me initiating a "pull the torso up" movement. I do not quite follow but this is how I perform the exercise so that it hits my legs and hips in a manner that is very specific to vertical jumping, and is MUCH better than just jumping vertically as someone else suggested (which will not provide the same training effect at all, or train the hips as well, but it would be decent like jump squats I suppose, again the swinging nature of the KB makes it GREAT for improving rate of force absorption and overall force absorption).

Progression of movements from start to finish:
1. start with kettlebell near hips, with arms touching the body, in a wide enough stance so that you can comfortably swing the arms behind you.
2. Bring hips back while simultaneously squatting down slightly and swinging KB behind body, but allow the natural backwards motion of the hips (hip flexion and the knee flexion) to assist the swinging of the kettlebell. 
3. (this step is the key here) As you are transitioning from force absorption to production, with the kettlebell getting ready to swing forward and still being behind the body, jump using the hips first by swinging them forwards (as if you were going to do a hip hyperextension, JUST LIKE in a clean... so no there is no hip hyperextension but if the weight hadn't gone upwards or forwards, there WOULD HAVE been hip hyperextension so that is certainly irrelevant), the arms are not important at all as in an overhead throw or a vertical jump here (one reason why it's not maximal either). As the weight passes forward you should feel your hips acting first then the knees/quads, and the jumping should have happened.
4. Land then start over at 1.

Make more sense? It's really simple. You swing a weight behind you and jump forward with it. Since the KB swings, it helps the legs absorb more force and absorb it faster, while jumping with the weight. I do certainly focus on my hips almost as if they were a hinge joint, swinging them back and forwads throughout the movement. The forward swing probably has nice potentiation too because it makes you feel like you are jumping far when it's pulling you forward, almost like reverse band squats.

Much more than just a GPP exercise. If it was just GPP this exercise would train the anaerobic glycolytic system more than just the anaerobic system, like higher rep stuff. But it's not easy to do this for high reps even though it is submaximal. I can't do more than 6 reps without losing power with 24kg. I only did a few per set here as you can see. I think it can be GPP, but also more than that with the right loads.

85
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 05, 2013, 10:37:55 pm »
it's not clear how bad he hurt his back. is he out of commission?

By conventional lifting I mean anything people normally do to gain strength. 5x5, smolov, anything. When you have muscle memory you can do MUCH less and gain strength and muscle mass back much faster.

So what i'm essentially arguing is that you DON'T strictly have to be patient, you can treat it aggressively and then once you're back use conventional lifting. Heavy singles will work but just going light to bring back the motor pattern is all that is necessary.

86
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 05, 2013, 04:24:12 pm »
About CNS stim before bed. Yes I know some things.

Always meditate do yoga after your workouts. It will balance you out and active the rest and digest branch the parasympathetic branch of your nervous system and increase vagal tone (vagus nerve). Doing aerobic exercises also increases vagal tone a lot so I would actually suggest that if you feel wired for "hours," because that's not going to be a good thing for your recovery. When your CNS is wired like that after a workout it's hard to eat. I've experienced the same exact thing and it's not a good state to be in if you want to optimize digestion. You want to be in a rest/digest state to get anabolic. Maybe try doing some higher rep stuff becaue the super heavy low rep stuff is great for just stimulating the CNS and eventually running it into fatigue. Cool down. That's key. Meditation/yoga, again. DOn't neglect. Are you cooling down appropriately?

87
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 05, 2013, 04:21:34 pm »
I've only read the last few posts, but from personal experience, you can gain strength back pretty quickly if you have muscle memory. Of course it's better to be patient, but I've done similar things and seen results. Over the past year my squat has gone up, then down, then up, and down, depending on how much sprints/plyos I did. If I did longer sprints I would become hamstring dominant and it would mess up my squat. Stopping sprints, and just doing some light squats allowed me to see massive increases in strength in a few days, about 10lbs a day. For example my squat was feeling so shitty i could barely do 245lbs 5 times when I had been able to do 275 for a few reps before. SO I did 245 3x3 (easy), one day, 255 3x3 the next day (a little harder), then 265 3x3 the next day, and I was back to where I started. That's of course a lighter approach but if I hadn't had that muscle memory before I wouldn't have been able to do that. The adaptations there were all neural mostly.

Now this wouldn't have worked if I stopped for years but I would think it would still work a little if you have muscle memory. With deadlifts I've experienced the same thing, I stopped DLing seriously for about a year I'd say, but just doing some brief intense lifting brought the strength back quickly. I did heavy singles too at one point, just a few to bring back that muscle memory.

TO conclude...I think the gain strength WITHOUT ever having it, lifting regularly (any program that builds strength i mean) is the best solution. If you IN THE PAST have had great strength, I think you can safely use a different approach, an approach that involves bringing back that muscle memory and strength without a lot of volume. However going lighter and just working on form can bring back muscle memory too... so I'm not saying lifting heavy singles at the risk of injury is the best approach... I'm saying that conventional lifting is not necessary. I unfortunately don't have the data to back it up but if I searched I'm sure I could find anecdotes.

88
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGJJwDsmaG0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGJJwDsmaG0</a>

 :o

89
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Avishek Drops
« on: August 04, 2013, 08:53:11 pm »
this makes sense.

When I do jump squats I often do the first rep at a 1/2 squat (pretty low actually right above parallel), then immediately upon foot contact on the landing, do a little ankle hop rebound or a 1/4 squat quick jump. haven't been consistent but it of course feels so much better, it adds that depth jump element to it.

90
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Avishek Drops
« on: August 04, 2013, 03:42:14 pm »
Actually, you can recruit all your motor neurons from doing 80%+ of 1RM squats, so the need of doing depth jumps knowing that is SEVERELY overrated.

really?

I think depth jumps are overrated too. I think jump squats can accomplish the same type of eccentric force absorption that depth drops are supposed to, it's all about gravity after all right?

For example, sometimes when I go do sprints on the track the fence is locked so I hop over. After I climb to the top and put my leg over sometimes i jump from there, it's a good depth drop, my hips are at about 7+ feet I'd say. When I used to do 185lbs jump squats back in the day WAY before I could even squat 2x bw, I could EASILY land in a half squat position from that drop.

Doing more depth drops also helps me land more easily form that drop... but when I wasn't doing any plyos and was squatting often, I couldn't land it like that, I just landed in a deep squat.

But I think that ability whatever it is is very useful for jumping but depth jumps aren't necessary. And the way more people perform depth jumps, off of very low heights, is probably useless. I prefer single legged depth jumps only. But since I made this video i'll do these more consistently too.

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