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It seems chin ups for me and even neutral grip pull-ups create shoulder pain towards the hang position, so it's really only pull-ups for me

Quote from: Avishek on December 05, 2012, 12:42:32 am

I don't know who exactly I am responding to but I object to the idea that one should try to replicate the form. One should perform exercises that improve force absorption instead.

When I first started training 2 footed vertical about 4 years ago at least, I had NO IDEA how to plant off of ONE step, let alone, a full runup with 3-5 steps. It was IMPOSSIBLE to do a running vertical. It was the ugliest fuck ever. Practicing the form helped very little, watching dunk videos also did not help. It took years to understand. Still taking 3 huge steps is something I can barely do. But I can easily do a powerful 1-2 step vert, and the reason why I can plant so much faster, more powerfully, and with a longer penultimate now than 2 years ago, is due to greater eccentric strength, and force absorption, not just because I have thought about the spatial relationships of my joints during the jump mentally for several dozens of hours over the past few years. Squats have helped me, sprinting, and I suppose yes watching videos again and again and again has helped. But 4 years ago, when it was impossible, there was no reactive strength anywhere. Just 3 years ago, freshman year, I also could not physically do it without losing like 3 inches on my vert each time compared to taking a mini step. Only within the past year have I been able to look normal while practicing RVJ. By normal I mean, staying low, planting sideways, and having a noticeable plant foot which hits the ground before the other foot.

Similarly, in sprinting, practicing maximum velocity mechanics gets you almost nowhere without the force producing capabilities typical of an elite sprinter that is developed through strength training and lots of sprinting at near maximal intensities. Practicing the form won't even make SENSE without those force producing capabilities you just will not be able to do it. If you have weak hamstrings, tight adductors and hip flexors it will be impossible to practice max velocity mechanics. Same with acceleration. It's very difficult to practice a low heel recovery if you don't have much quad strength. Build them up and it makes more sense.



Conclusion: Do whatever you want, but you will not improve much by practicing Gerald Greene's form, because you cannot produce force like him, and you will not produce force like him, until you can delineate exactly how he produces force and how much is coming from each joint (ankle, knee, hip), then try to understand how your limb structure and biomechanics can try to replicate that form and then work towards improving the force production or absorption in those areas. (actually you don't need to do all of that, since most elite jumpers jump like Greene). For LBSS force absorption in the hips could help him stay low. Depth jumps jupming backwards and bounding will help. But forcing yourself to plant sideways a little more may help load the hips. You may not jump as high but that doesn't matter it's about training the hips at that magical 90 degree angle elite jumpers maintain during the amortization. (edit: btw when I say you it is meant generally and not to any one individual).

Regardless, Greene doesn't seem to jump THAT differently or differently at all from other elite jumpers. It does seem like his plant foot is less flat footed but he transitions from flat foot to forefoot by the time the other non-plant foot makes contact with the floor, allowing for both feet to take off simultaneously. Doesn't sound too crazy if I got that right. He also plants sideways a little bit which is very natural. He also does the twisting supercoil technique that sickenvendetta talked about. jk about the last one.

I actually took the time to read what you wrote and I have to add that people will always use a heel-to-toe plant. The heel will pretty much always touch the ground first. You just can't plant with the ball of the foot... that would be the worst unstable position of them all.

I am currently terrible at running two leg jumps (I either do SVJ or a slow drop-step vert like the big centers do - I cannot control a running VJ) but apparently my quads suck big time so that's no shock in my inability to do running two-leg jumps. Until I get my quads really strong there's no way I'll do it.

Which reminds me - I'm tired of the overblowing the importance of the posterior chain. Give me strong quads and then I'll worry about the posterior chain.

Are your running two leg jumps particularly slow? It seems like a lot of times for me my running jumps feel slow and definitely look slow on camera. The only time they feel fast and really explosive from a accelerated run up is from high nervous system arousal such as between games of pick up basketball. This is what I feel I need to work on, being able to really explode out of fast run up.

This morning I got a 32" standing vertical jump on a jump mat.. I consider that pretty good for me since it was in the morning with no mood to jump and really no warm up the day after a squat workout... My fitness teacher brought it out and me him and his colleague just started jumping.

So PR since I never really measured my standing vert.. Kinda makes me think I could get 35 if was really hype...   

this one is actually pretty funny

Christian Thibaudeau:  LAYER SYSTEM PART 1: RAMP TO MAX: This first layer is all about activating the nervous system, increasing fast twitch muscle fiber recruitment and building the capacity to showcase strength. You basically ramp up gradually toward your max for the day. Start at about 40-50% and add 10-20lbs per set until you hit your max. Perform sets of 3 for the first 2-3 sets then switch to singles to reduce fatigue. We want about 6-9 ramping sets including 3-4 heavy ones (above 90%).

Today 14:47
Christian Thibaudeau:  LAYER SYSTEM PART 2: CLUSTERS: Clusters develop the capacity to recruit AND stimulate more FT fibers. It is a very powerful method to increase size, strength and density (giving the muscles a harder look). You use 90% of the weight you reached in your ramp. One set has several reps (3-7) performed 10 seconds of rest between them. You rest the bar on every rep, which is why it's best to start from pins or a deadstart. You stop the cluster set when you cannot perform more reps. You do 3 sets.


Christian Thibaudeau:  LAYER SYSTEM PART 3: HEAVY DENSITY LIFTING: This is the most effective way to stimulate as many fibers to grow as possible, especially now that the nervous system is "on". Each set is as follow: 5 reps/rest 10-15 sec/4 reps/rest 10-15 sec/3 reps/rest 10-15 sec/2 reps/rest 10-15 sec/1 rep... if you were able to get more than 17 total cluster reps over 3 sets, instead of 5-4-3-2-1 for HDL you do 4-4-3-3-2-2-1-1... you start with 65-70% and ideally would eventually be able to use 80%. Do 3 sets.

Christian Thibaudeau:  LAYER SYSTEM PART 4: MAX PUMP: This is an optional layer. The layer system is perfectly effective with just the first 3. But if you are using a powerful recovery agent like PLAZMA and want to take the pump to another level (driving more nutrients to the muscles) you can add the pump layer: One set is: hold the weight in mid range (peak for pulls) 5 sec./do 5 reps/hold 4 sec/do 4 reps/hold 3 sec./do 3 reps/hold 2 sec/do 2 reps/hold 1 sec/do 1 rep...

Christian Thibaudeau:  MAX PUMP (2): There is no pause during a max pump set (the "pause" is during the isometric hold... which is actually the hardest part!). Use 40-50% of the ramped max and perform 2-3 sets.


Today 14:30
Christian Thibaudeau:  BONUS WORK WITH THE MAX RAMP/CLUSTER/HDL LAYER: I mentioned it in the past: If I want to do more volume I add a max pump layer after the HDL... for the max pump layer you: hold the weight in mid range (peak for pulls) 5 sec./do 5 reps/hold 4 sec/do 4 reps/hold 3 sec./do 3 reps/hold 2 sec/do 2 reps/hold 1 sec/do 1 rep... there is no pause during all that like with the HDL. I use 40-50% of the ramped up max and do 2-3 sets.

Christian Thibaudeau:  BONUS WORK WITH ... (2): If I add a secondary exercise it is an explosive one (speed on a pumped muscle)... could be power snatches (with high pulls), push jerks/press (with pressing), med ball throws (with pressing), KB jump squats, etc.

Christian Thibaudeau:  BONUS WORK WITH ... (3) Very very rarely do I do an actual secondary lift as in "normal lifting work".... if you do the 3 basic layers then the max pump layer there is no way the involved muscles need or can benefit from more work. Every single fiber will have been stimulated, max growht factor release will be accomplished and so will the activation of the ERK pathway. And your muscles will be filled with nutrients. More would just create more fatigue.

Quote from: pelham32 on November 29, 2012, 09:13:16 pm

Quote from: Raptor on November 29, 2012, 05:07:47 pm

It's called "Photoshop".

X2 on the photoshop. I personally think that the girl below her has ten times more natural beauty. You know, girls that can look sexy dressing down in sweat pants, no makeup, and their hair up.

the girl below her would be very pretty if she werent chubby and had a bad nose.

Lol, I guess that's what I get for only being able to see from the chin up and that angle

Any body play this game yet or a fan of the Hitman series?