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The terminology is confusing. Forget about hollowing/bracing lol. Rephrase the question with the understanding that the abs are held rigidly in either case. For clarity, when your abs are rigid/tensed/contracted, do you pull your abs inward or push them outward??

And I'm not sure that Starett advocates for hollow abs in his book.  I would have to check again when I got home, but I'm pretty sure one of his first principles about getting the spine in alignment is bracing the abs after filling them up and clenching the glutes to hold the pelvies in alignment; I could be wrong though.  Also, check out videos of many of the top weighlifters of all times...before they start their pull for their lifts so many of them suck in a deep breadth.

Ah I see where the mixup is. You think that taking a breath and holding it means you must pull abs in? That's not true, just try it out. You can take a breath, hold it and push your abs out. If I do that right now while typing this I get a much stronger core contraction when pushing out than pulling in. You can easily do either while holding your breath. You're a hollower. So am I. But many authorities recommend bracing rather than hollowing.

Lol relax bro it's a real thing. So-called abdominal hollowing. Stuart McGill says ney, so does everett in his WL book. And Starrett too in his. So that's why i'm asking about this shit. For the record my answer is hollowing because that's how I learnt it (unfortunately).

edit link to read  - http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=54160

Training
FS 1x110, 1x116, 2x121 (PR)
HBBS 2x6x108
Orange Band Glute Bridge 2x12

FS notes:
I read my log wrong and thought I had been doing chinups regularly on mondays. Turns out I hadn't done them in 2 wks, so doing 22 reps this monday messed me up properly to the detriment of today's front squats, costing me a 3x121 PR. I couldn't even hold the rack position on these bad boys my chest was collapsing just standing there! This really fucked me right off because i've been eating like a hippo all this week and if I don't have PRs to show for it, it's all for nothing. Stupid chinups. Having said that, i am a fool for not doing chinups regularly because I desperately need the upper back strength and they will help me squat better.

BS notes:
Never noticed this before but I get hella hunchback of notre damn with my neck on backsquats. That's not right! So i worked on getting my neck back. This felt uncomfortable and I don't think I maintained it thru the set but now i'm aware i'll be trying to fix that asap. Slowly but surely my backsquat form is coming together. I am also feeling a need to do unilateral leg work to beef up my R leg because it's the one whose knee that shoots in out of the hole. Hmm. Work In Progress.

Mobility notes:
These are getting better quickly. Might add another set and go for 3x15 next time.

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Wasted todays training really, hope to get back on track on friday. I should have been going for FS 3x123 on friday, instead I have to decided whether to dial back to 3x120 instead. Blah. 

I take it back. I've just realised this wasn't such a bad training day at all. I found a new way to improve my backsquat with better neck position. This also goes someway in explaining why i am a much better front squatter than I am backsquatetter. With the FS the neck goes back to avoid choking. It forces the neck into the correct position automatically. LBSS might be onto something with the posture thing. I have good posture. But I can have great posture once my neck is back and my chest is up. When working on the desk i have a fwd head posture.

Following corrective exercises done yesterday, I've got doms in the right places on weak side of my body in my glute/hamstring. This is promising! 

Glute activation sounds like some gimmick fitness thing raptor would obsess about but it can't hurt to try. Next thing you know i'll be doing those bar humping exercises he talks about. Cheers man. Lets see what happens. I'm excited by the prospect of fixing my BS. Apparently I should have a 150kg max backsquat for my front squat max, which is around 2bw (ideal bw not current fat ass bw). So i'm def leaving a lot on the table yet, hopefully glute activation will realise the remaining gains.

Btw vag I hate u, lol, eating a lot of meat sucks, it's disgusting. i rarely it usually and im struggling with eating a lot now, taste/texture puts me off. still all worth it for PRs ;P 

Can't wait til the next workout - have decided to go for a FS 3x121 PR and finish the week with 3x123. Think I can do it if i keep up the eating and resting like I have been the past 8 days or so.

Also reading this atm.

Training
FS 2x90, 2x100, 2x110, 1x114.5, 3x119.5 (PR), 5Fx112.5, 5x107.5
HBBS 2x6x106, 9x99 (PR)
BP 6x81, 8x78.5 (PR), 7x75
CU 3,6,3,4,3,2,3 (total 22 reps)

Stimulants: 200mg caffeine, 20mg synephrine (inspired by asafa powell to dust off and bust this out of my cupboard lol)

FS notes:
Finally knocked out a heavy triple PR - it's been a while but i crushed it. IWell not really, form was shi t but i'm just pleased to get the PR. I want to think the set was easy but I can't really remember now. After that set, I got cocky and thought now i'll get a new 5Rm while i'm at it, and went for 112.5kg milestone PR when i shuda gone for 112kg PR (and probably got it). But i regret nothing. I didn't even attempt the last 1/2 of the rep so i dont consider it a failure, more like 4.5 reps 

But next time is the big 3x120kg PR - only a half kilo more on paper, just the plates are not accurate so in practice it usually feels a *lot* heavier than it should be. But i'll get it no problem. I've set my eyes on 3x135kg in this cycle so 120kg is nothing but a peanut!

BS notes:
Good news is i've identified a weakess and i've got an exercise which exhibits the failure. Bad news is I have a weakness that needs fixing. But happy to get 9x99kg! While doing the set I thought my form was amazing, that i was going deep and controlling the set. On video it didn't bear out my prejudices lol. It's okay though. Fix my weakness, fix my BS technique. That's the plan.

BP notes:
Still trying to work around not having a spotter. Frustrating, might probably have got 8 on that last set, and maybe 7 on the first set.

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Now to eat loads of carbs and meat and make vag happy

Quote from: entropy on July 12, 2013, 07:23:12 am

Thanks for the warning, will heed it. Can you tell me what goes thru your head when you're going into the rep? Talk/walk me thru it if possible. My depth for FS is good, my depth for BS is not haha, it's just below parallel, which is actually ok with me, because I do my fs's deep so hopefully i'm not missing out on much there. I actually prefer it this way because it places the brunt of the work onto my quads which is what I need.

Honestly, I don't think that my squat form is anything amazing but this is what I do: I don't really think about my depth.  I just go as far down as I can while maintaining a neutral spine; being safe is always the most important thing for me.  If my flexibility increases over time I can go lower.  Anyway, as far as my mental process, I really try to keep it simple.  On my first warm-up reps I don't do anything explosively at all.  I just use them to try and achieve my desired range of motion, so I go pretty slow.  Once, I'm feeling pretty good with really light weight (obviously this depends on the individual), then I start doing the reps a little more explosively.  As far as cues....all I'm ever worried about is having my back straight. If my back is straight and I'm as upright as possible I have no fear to explode and really go to work in the squat, so both my cues are centered around that.  THe first thing I do is to get my hands as close as possible without discomfort in my elbows...this makes my upperback really tight and that in turn makes my chest pop out. Also, I engage my lats by pulling my elbows down really hard and trying to crush the bar (I think some people like the elbows up and back, but that doesn't work for me).  The other cue that helps me is something Lance said in my journal.  He said to use the hip flexors to pull yourself into the squat.  This second cue helps me with my lumbar spine.  When I engage the hip flexors in this way it really helps me keep the back straight.  I think that is why you think my squats are so concentric driven, because all I'm really thinking about is my back.  So, when I descending I'm just thinking about the 2 things above: (1) Upperback tight, pull down elbows; (2) Pull myself down with hipflexors to keep lower back tight.  Once I hit my depth and I have done these things, I feel so tight and wound up like a coil, that I just explode out of the hole.  IDK, thats the only way I can describe it.  At the bottom of the squat everything is really tightly contracted...my upperback, my lower back, my quads, my glutes....It kind of makes me feel like a spring, and as long as my back is straight I can destroy the weight.  Idk, if any of this helps you, but thats usually what I think.  Oooo, and obviously the knees need to be pushed out, but I don't really think about this as much because it is usually not a problem (every once in a while it will creep into my form though so I stay conscious of it).

This is exactly what I was after. You did a great job walking me thru your reps. I have a lot to learn. The stuff in bold is stuff I have to work on. My grip around the bar is very close because i've worked on bringing grip in over time to the point i'm about an inch away from the rings. I find this helps keep tight too, as you stated. What I hadn't considered was pulling the bar down with elbows. I keep my elbows down but I thought by pushing the bar up I was making myself tighter, I didn't think to try pulling down might actually be better. I will try that out next time!

On the way down you say you go slow and work hard to be tight/stay tight - i found in my best/prettiest reps (usually the first reps in a set), i have a very controlled eccentric phase. That's something I have to consciously work on for the entire duration of the set. Like in my last video (front squat but same lesson applies as backsquat), i kind of rush my last rep, this costs me depth, which costs me bounce, and then i get out of position and my elbow drops.

The other thing is you feel like a loaded spring at the bottom. I don't have that, but perhaps it's because some of my muscles are too relaxed, eg quads/calves. I might tighten then up as I go down into the squat? Pull myself into the bottom of the lift (like lance's suggestion). I first heard of that in Pavel's and I use it for bench press but i'll try it for squats too.

Lots of things to try out next time. I can't wait..