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yeah you're absolutely right. i've started to incorporate band-assisted dorsiflexion into my warm up but it's something i need to be working on all the time. long history of ankle injuries.

fwiw i'd consider that a full squat but depth is greater on paused reps. knee flexion probably greater, too. will try to get vid today.

Been outa town for so long... great to see these videos.  Ankle mobility can be really hard to work on.  You can increase dorsiflexion in your structures in the back of your leg are tight... but if the restriction is in the front (as it may be if you have oft-injured ankles) there seems to not be much you can do besides get a raised heel... KFs dorsiflexion might be his greatest asset to his functional squatting.   A reason why a lot of athletes simply don't benefit from such a low squat.

Right, which is why I said GOOD GENES/STRUCTURE FOR STRENGTH.  His olympic lifts are also very far from what a typical "genetic freak" would have even with poor technique if they had his squat strength.

Ah, I see.   So much confusion for me as to how people from different backgrounds use words; in a lifting context strength is defined by squatting and power defined by the pulls?   In sprinting strength refers almost exclusively to speed endurance; we would say a miler has endurance, a great 400m runner has to have a lot of strength while a 100m runner has power.   I guess we are perhaps the most wrong from a physical standpoint.

here's a good question for you, t0ddday: if i ran the 60m in 8.3x yesterday, what's a reasonable newbie goal for the summer? i'm going to try to get a more accurate time soon, at the very least measured on a track and not grass. but pretend it's 8.3x. realistic to shoot for 7.8x? too ambitious?

Really hard to say.  Like you already know an 8.3 self-timed 60m on grass could really be anywhere from a 7.8 to 9.0 seconds in reality.   For example where did you even find markers for 60m, did you just use 70 yards?  Even, if we suppose it's 8.3 it's still doesn't make such sense to throw out a conjecture without seeing video.  Video your next one, doesn't necessarily have to be on track if you have cones and a level field.   Really depends on how "good" you are at running.  If you are slow because you are really bad at running then you can get your time down a lot; unfortunately I think you have an athletic background so you might be a decent runner... Video would tell the answer.   Independent of the time I think high sevens (7. is an achievable goal for you, not because you ran 8.3 but because you are young, lean and have good relative strength.  I think that's achievable for someone with those characteristics if they put the work in. 

The same for 13.2x 80m please?

Also , any typical sets/reps/rest suggestions for tempo workouts?

@ Vag:

I simply don't believe your 13.2 80m time.  It's on the opposite end of the Avishek Self Timing craziness.  If I suspend my disbelief then the only way for someone to run that slow despite your ability to dunk is if you are absolutely the worst runner imaginable.  If that's the case you will get much faster very soon. 80m is a weird distance.  Really general rule of thumb says subtract 2 seconds for the first 10m.  Then divide the remaining time to get your high speed velocity.  So for you that would be 70m in 11.2 seconds or around 6.25 meters per second.  So, without fatigue your 60m and 100m time can be estimated using this velocity + 1 second for acceleration;  this gives you 10.6 seconds and 17.0 seconds.  I would be shocked if you can't run sub 9 and sub 15 in the 60m and 100m with just basic running, so I would correspondingly expect your 80m time to drop about 2 seconds.

Also , any typical sets/reps/rest suggestions for tempo workouts?
What i currently do is:
submax tempo runs : 3 sets of 5 sprints , ~15 seconds run , 45 seconds walk back , 3 minutes between sets.
max tempo runs : 2 sets of 5 sprints , 2 minutes between sprints , 5 minutes between sets.

What are max-tempo runs?  Tempo and maximum effort do not go together.  If you are running with max velocity you don't want to have less than optimal recovery.    The submax looks fine, I would extend the time of the runs though.  Tempo runs are really good for mechanics, body composition and recovery.  They are a bit boring though so most important thing is to mix it up.  I shared one workout I really like with LBSS, run up and back on turf field (100yd and back 100yards).  Rest for about 1 min (we start a rep every 90 seconds giving about 1 minute rest) and repeat  5-10 times for 1-3 sets.   This one is a great finisher.  Also, like 4x3 x 150 where the last rep of each set of three is a bit faster than the previous two.  8x200 w/3 mins recovery is good.  Really get creative, on monday we did 300m,200m,150m,200m,300m, 500m.  Every less than 15 sec per hundred (this one hurt).   In general I find that college coaches put sprinters though TOO MUCH endurance work (thinking if it's hard it's necessarily good, or because Tommy Smith ran 500's so should today's 100m sprinters) but people who train for sprints on their own don't do nearly enough system work and stick to meaningless workouts like 3x20m.  Find a balance between the two and you will make the most gains. 

*** One thing I strongly recommend to you and everyone training to get faster in sprints is a) Enter a meet.  It's great fun.  But if you don't want to then b) video tape yourself or get a friend to do it.  If you have an Iphone or Andriod phone you can so easily tape it and use one of many apps ( V1-Golf is good - Made for golf analysis ) and figure out your time from video analysis.  Simply load the video into V1-golf and you can scroll through the video frame by frame.  Notice the frame at first movement and the first frame where your body crosses some line (you can just use your foot touching down past the line or put a traffic cone in the frame and notice when your torso passes the plane).   Since the reaction to the gun is not included with this analysis it will give you better times than you will usually achieve in a meet.  But it's highly repeatable and doesn't force you to try and run pressing a stop watch.   It's a fantastic training tool and for me my times using this method in flats are really similar to my times in a meet using blocks/spikes/adrenaline.   As LBSS is noticing if you try and self time a 60m you either cheat yourself into a slow time or cheat and get a ridiculously fast time, both of which you don't want to do. 

It's not that complicated. 

I also refuse to believe that vag is that slow.  Although I guess if the surface is that bad maybe it's not comparable. 

As far as calculating percentages... Like I said before, you can just use your time PROVIDED you are running a decent distance (150+ meters) or using short recovery.   For a curve then 75% avg velocity usually comes from  75% intensity.  Just don't hit the time by blasting out and shutting down because that isn't really the point of tempo runs.   Remember the first should be really easy sprinting, the last should be the same time but feel hard.  LBSS, I love barefoot turf running, a great way to get in condition and work on mechanics, plus doesn't wear on your body hardly at all.   

Last week we finished our speed day with the following (barefoot on fieldturf):  100 yards up and back on a football field (slow down, hit the line and re-accelerate back); with a rest of 90 seconds minus the time it took for the interval.  We did 5 reps of this (1000 yards total) and then got five minutes recovery and did another 5 reps.  A really cool workout; I definitely got a lot of quality system work without the booty-lock that you get when you do 300m and more.   I don't know all my times but I ran the very last one in 30 seconds; I was tired but trying pretty hard because I knew it was over after this.   I recommend this workout really strongly if you have issues with curves or tracks. 

Quote from: T0ddday on April 18, 2013, 09:10:49 am

17-18s might be a bit slow for 100m but it really just depends on you.  The intervals need to be sprints... time doesn't matter that much.  But if 18s means your are heel-rolling with a low-arm carriage like a miler... then the benefit of tempo is lost and you might as well mile.  For me that means my straights are always under 15sec but my 200m will stretch out to 30-32 seconds.

Oops, that's very interesting. So buffered ( or too much buffered ) tempo runs have no benefit over steady pace longer distance running?
Let me make this more detailed:
I alternate workouts between 3sets*5*80m tempo runs and 3km steady pace jogging ( pace around 9km/h ). My tempo runs , i prefer not to go max because of the too much stress they cause on me, so i do them buffered. What i feel and consider like 50% is about 20 seconds for 80m , while what feels like in between 50% and max would be about 15 seconds. Those are rough approximations, self-hand-timed measurements. Also runs are not done on track, but outdoors, on a dust/gravel football field actually.
So my tempo runs pace is around there, 20 to 15 seconds for 80m which i consider 50% to 70% intensity correspondingly.
Am i going too slow? Is there a magic number for the buffer to get the benefits out of your tempo runs ( e.g. 70% )? Should i test my max effor times and set my buffered times based on that?

I would say for most people 20 seconds for 80m is REALLY slow.   I also wouldn't do 80m tempo runs though.   There isn't a magic number but rather just different benefits of submaximal sprinting and depending on the pace you choose you will get/lose benefits.  People usually refer intensive tempo as runs closer to 90% (benefit is to build special endurance) and extensive tempo as closer to 75%.     Extensive tempo is what I usually mean when I say tempo-running.  Basically here are the benefits of tempo. 

1) System work   - satisfied probably no matter what intensity
2) Sprint mechanics -  You essentially are not really "sprinting" if you run too slow so pace needs to be decent to get meaningful mechanical work in.
3) Recovery -  Again too slow and you are not hitting the range of motion you do when sprinting, but too fast and you are not recovering.  Too slow is like using calf raises to deload from squatting... too fast is like using 90% of your 1RM to deload. 
4) Special Endurance  - Gotta move pretty fast to get this benefit.  However, it's usually gotten as a sacrifice to recovery... Can't have it all.

One additional thing I would like to say for those using tempo runs is do more than 100m.  I talked to Charlie Francis about this once and he had most people always do something with more than 100m unless recovery was REALLY short.  Reason being is that we use time as a proxy for intensity.   If you watch the olympics you see that Usain Bolt can make 10.1 look like he is jogging.   While nobody is as fast as bolt you can do surprisingly similar with over 90% of your 100m speed.  I can run high 11 with a complete shutdown.   The trick is to drive out really hard and then completely relax.  If I take a bit off of it I can expend very little energy and still run around 14 seconds which is technically 75% of my best 100m.    However, this is cheating.  It's not really a  75% intensity run, it's more like a 95% 50m run coupled with a 40% intensity deceleration.  NOT the point of tempo running.  The point is the entire run should be very submaximal but not shut down.   That's why I recommend you have a curve in your runs.  200m are good because even a beginner will usually have enough fitness for this distance.  In the 200m you have to work the curve so going 75% of your max 200m speed will usually be 75% intensity.   Good luck. 

Both workouts look pretty good.  The track workout might be a little light in the number of jumps, but best to start with less bounding volume than too much.  As you adjust and adapt and get more coordinated you can add in things like standing triple jump, single leg bounding, for now it seems great.   The weight work seems like exactly the workout for an athlete I would prescribe: full body, simple, one squat and one dynamic move.  Low volume means it can even be done in season.   

Only concern I would have is are these workouts consecutive on the same day?  I am a huge proponent of tempo work (by 800m I assume you mean 4x200 or something [ not an 800m run] ) and circuit type training for GPP and body-composition... But make sure that if you do either you don't follow it with much immediately after.    As you get into better shape and have hard tempo days (say 3x4x150m ) you won't want to do much but lay day and go to sleep after ward... so best not to even plan to get lifting in immediately after.

modeled on T0ddday's recommendation from a while back. thoughts? will not be able to start the gym workouts until after i get my stitches out (hopefully saturday). if i do manage to find court access, i'll do something similar to workout A but with DLRVJ after broad jumps, and shorter sprints for obvious reasons. 

WORKOUT A - TRACK/COURT

- dynamic warmup, leg swings, fast leg, skips, strides, submax SL jumps/bounds for practice
- measured overhead backward shot tosses x 10

- 4 standing broad jumps (consecutive, with reset)
- 2-3 x 4 DL bounds
- ME SLRVJ (3 step, 6 step) x 10-12

- ME sprint 3 x 60m
- (OPTIONAL) tempo work, start at ~800m

WORKOUT B - GYM

- warmup
- snatch 2-3 x 2-3
- HB squat x 3; 2 x 5 @ 80%
- OHP 2 x 8
- pull ups x 30 (broken up however, add reps once i get it in 4 sets)

- circuit x 3
-- hyper x 8
-- calf raise x 10
-- abs x 10-20

- SVJ x 10
- DLRVJ x 10 (if space in the gym)

Quote from: T0ddday on April 01, 2013, 02:54:38 pm

Quote from: entropy on April 01, 2013, 03:52:49 am

But by next year, I should be thinking in terms of a 400 pound front squat while being a lean and cut 85kg bodyweight.

I don't want to be that person putting you down... but unrealistic expectations are often the cause for failure. 

Lol I know I will never realistically squat 400 whether FS or HB - esp while lean -- it's a ceiling for me, if I aim for it, i might exceed all expectations than if I set a lower goal. Aim for the sky  Ditto with the BW goal, 85kg lean is nuts, 80kg lean would be amazing really.

Quote

In a years time you want to add ~30 lbs of muscle and 150lbs to your front squat?  All while playing basketball, running and jumping?

I know I can frontsquat 130kg at a bodyweight of 72-73kg without a doubt. I recently worked up to ~125kg at around a fat 75kg bw. Adding 50kg to that while allowing my bodyweight to go up 13kg isn't unreasonable is it?  That's around 3.85kg on the bar for every kilo of bodyweight, not too crazy.

I anticipate I can get to 140-160kg efficiently once i'm done cutting and eating at a decent caloric surplus while staying around 75-80kg. And from there it's not a stretch to think I could add 20-30kg to the bar while adding 5-10kg of bodyweight. But yea i'll be a bit fatter than I expect, and I probably wont be a lean 85kg, just a very strong one. I'll have to cut to probably 80kg or so, I can see it happening though. I'm confident about getting around 2xbw ~ 150-160kg - anything above that will be a bonus.

Quote

Start small.  Your not a beginner anymore so gains are harder but still attainable.  Think in terms of adding ~20lbs to a lift over periods of 8-12 weeks.  Do this every so often and you will keep getting stronger.

I think I am still a beginner in many ways, at least in hypertrophy terms, ive been been on a caloric deficit for most of the time, not much opportunity to grow mass (and -> strength). When I went off the deficit, gains came easier. I know I can get to 140-150kg without any trouble just by getting off the diet. Not saying i'll squat 400 overnight, it might take a long time.

My motivation is high right now, lets see where it takes me.

Your still a beginner in terms of muscle mass but not in terms of strength increases.  I don't want to burst your bubble but it gets hard.  Well, it got hard for me, it gets hard for most people, you might be the genetic exception.  I think your 4:1 in BW increase to strength ratio is actually pretty wishful thinking but it's not necessarily the ratio that I disagree with as much as the time scale.  The most you have ever front squatted is 125kg.   So you assume you can do 130kg. And, since your cutting you then assume another 30kg will come getting off the caloric deficit, so now your at 160kg.  And then if you allow yourself to actually eat a caloric surplus and gain some weight... that's gotta be worth 20kg, so now your around 390lbs.   At that point... what is 10lbs?  Easy, a 400lb squat.   

Sorry, to say this but this kind of thinking is a bit dangerous.  Aiming for the heavens and landing in the stars is great advice advice for kids, but really just a way to set yourself up for disappointment if your an adult.  There is nothing wrong with setting reasonable goals and exceeding them.   I ran 10.64 at 5'10.5 185 lbs in a time trial after stumbling in the blocks.  I remember thinking:  "Man, I still don't look super lean, if I had my power at 170 that would be worth at least 2 tenths (~10.40)... I haven't even done much true speed-endurance, once I do I will be able to hold better and gain at least a tenth (10.30),,,  take away that stumble has to be worth a tenth (10.20)... Add in the adrenaline of having other competitors gives at least half a tenth (10.15) and throw in a favorable but legal tailwind (10.05)... which is close enough that we can just assume.... SUB 10!... wow I should really start thinking about being a sub 10 guy."    In reality I pulled my hamstring soon after and got really discouraged and haven't ran faster than that ever.  I should have been thinking... See if you can repeat that or get 10.5x.  My point is that once I set unreasonable goals on top of goals on top of expectations I started to set my self up for disappointment after disappointment which led to more injury and worse training.   Don't let that happen to you. 

You have front squatted 275.  That's good.  Two and a half plates.  Three plates is pretty hard.  Three and a half (365 lbs ) is really hard.  Taking four plates (405) atg in the front squat is damn near elite strength.  As a basketball player (eg someone who isn't going to be squatting daily) you are aiming to get your squat up through moreso strength than movement efficiency.  There simply aren't that many non-huge guys who do 405 who aren't weightlifters.  It's a HUGE lift.   Maybe your the outlier and you will do it in a years time...  But getting it in your head seems to me the wrong way to think.  Aim for 315lbs.  Program your way to 315 and when you hit it for a single post the video and celebrate the milestone.  Don't look past 315lbs until you get there.  My advice, you can do with it what you please.

Too bored to search, does ibuprofen help healing? I mean does it actively act against the inflammation or does it just reduce the pain? Are you happy with it's action?
I am asking because here the most 'popular' and 'proven' nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug is Voltaren ( whose action from what i see is based on Diclofenac ). But everyone seems to swear to ibuprofen on the net so i was wondering if i should give it a chance. Also, pills or gel? Gel massage is what i use, but i've read its nonsence because the gel cant penetrate more than a couple of inches (shut up raptor!), so it can never reach the muscles.
Sooo off topic! 

Both are anti-inflammatory.   None actually helps healing.  Voltaren is just a brand name for drug Diclofenac.   Like Advil and Ibuprofen.   Try to avoid all NSAIDs if you can for regular use.   I don't want to get into the details but all have some drawbacks, not the least of which is hepatic toxicity (bad for you liver).  For those who don't care about their health... there is also evidence that they interfere with muscle gains (that should make you avoid them!) when used chronically.   Personally, I favor athletes use Naproxen rather than Ibuprofen (brand name Aleve, celebrex is similar).   

In general Diclofenac is available in the widely available Eastern Part of Europe (Turkey, Bulgaria, etc) and Ibuprofen in America.   If anything I would argue for Diclofenac, there are better studies for diclofenac and arthritis relief than ibuprofen.  Additionally dicofenac gel is much safer... if it works for you by all means use it!   In general everyone on the net seems to use ibuprofen cause that's whats available in America  and "everyone on the net" is probably from America.  IMO not worth the effort for you to get it if you can't pick it up OTC.   If you find Diclofenac doesn't work at all, I would try Naproxen.