61
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Jumping And Smolov
« on: June 21, 2011, 05:47:00 pm »
And thank you very much for the feedback.
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62
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Jumping And Smolov
« on: June 21, 2011, 06:24:59 am »
http://kbforum.dragondoor.com/showthread.php?t=34110&p=153212
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/smolov_experience_thread_for_all
With the actual Smolov base phase I went from 245 to 295 back when I weighed 160 and before I ever tried a belt or knew what low bar was. Then I used Smolov a few months later to take me from 335 low bar + belt to 375 while still weighing under 170.
When people talk about the full Smolov, they mean the actual Smolov four-week base phase plus the switching plus the five-week Feduleyev peaking phase. Poor Feduleyev's name is rarely ever mentioned though according to Pavel's seminal article Feduleyev is the one who designed the last phase. I tend to call it the Smolov-Feduleyev when I'm talking about both phases. There is an intro phase that is optional and recommended for those coming off a layoff (I tend to lose 10-15% if I don't squat for a few weeks myself, but get that back within three weeks of squatting).
From what I've read base phase yields 40 lbs +/- 10 lbs and intensive phase yields 40 +/- 20.
According to Pavel:
So ~20-65 lbs in the base or 10-15 lbs if you're tiny (thought I gained 50 lbs when I was 160 squatting 245). ~30-45 lbs in the intensive phase. I've never done the whole thing, but 80-100 lbs gain seems to be normal for those who have.
I want to point out that this type of concentrated loading is the only thing that's worked for me since I made my noobie gain from 135 squat to 245. This leads me to believe that at least in my case it's best to do this kind of thing once per year and then just work on maintaining that strength, bringing up other qualities and then making another big gain the following year.
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/smolov_experience_thread_for_all
With the actual Smolov base phase I went from 245 to 295 back when I weighed 160 and before I ever tried a belt or knew what low bar was. Then I used Smolov a few months later to take me from 335 low bar + belt to 375 while still weighing under 170.
When people talk about the full Smolov, they mean the actual Smolov four-week base phase plus the switching plus the five-week Feduleyev peaking phase. Poor Feduleyev's name is rarely ever mentioned though according to Pavel's seminal article Feduleyev is the one who designed the last phase. I tend to call it the Smolov-Feduleyev when I'm talking about both phases. There is an intro phase that is optional and recommended for those coming off a layoff (I tend to lose 10-15% if I don't squat for a few weeks myself, but get that back within three weeks of squatting).
From what I've read base phase yields 40 lbs +/- 10 lbs and intensive phase yields 40 +/- 20.
According to Pavel:
Quote
...the base mesocycle delivers a 10-30kg gain for big boys and 5-7,5kg for lighter lifters.
The intense mesocycle is another cruel and unusual stretch of four weeks. It is good for another 15-20kg squat gain
So ~20-65 lbs in the base or 10-15 lbs if you're tiny (thought I gained 50 lbs when I was 160 squatting 245). ~30-45 lbs in the intensive phase. I've never done the whole thing, but 80-100 lbs gain seems to be normal for those who have.
I want to point out that this type of concentrated loading is the only thing that's worked for me since I made my noobie gain from 135 squat to 245. This leads me to believe that at least in my case it's best to do this kind of thing once per year and then just work on maintaining that strength, bringing up other qualities and then making another big gain the following year.
63
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Checking My Premises
« on: June 20, 2011, 06:10:10 pm »If your knee wraps help you with the squatting, do they help you with the jumping as well?
Knee wraps help in squatting because they cushion the blow at the bottom of the squat, a place jumping doesn't take me. Jumping hurts the knees not from the partial range of motion, but from the impact of the landing when the force travels through my tibia up to the joint.
64
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Checking My Premises
« on: June 20, 2011, 05:06:27 pm »ditch the deadlift. full squat your way to >2BW and good things happen. goodluck
oh. by >2BW, i mean rep 2BW plenty of times. a 1RM 2BW is not gonna cut it IMO.
This is a good point. Neither will squatting 2xBW in knee wraps! Something I've discovered recently. I like to train with wraps because they keep my knees from being useless on the off days, especially on high frequency/volume like Smolov. But I also warm up without the wraps all the way to one heavy single before wrapping up and adding a little more weight. It's the FIRST number, the weight I get without wraps, that I have to remember is my 1RM for vertical testing considerations.
I found Colin Chung's calculator on HFS to be accurate once I trained with bands. If you play with a few numbers, you find that for every multiple of bodyweight you can full squat (no belts or wraps), you can jump ~16.7 inches. So:
Squat = 1.0xBW :: 16.7 inches
Squat = 1.5xBW :: 25.1 inches
Squat = 2.0xBW :: 33.5 inches
Squat = 2.5xBW :: 41.9 inches
Squat = 3.0xBW :: 50.3 inches
My squat at 180 totally raw was 315 when I trained my vertical up to 28 inches last month. SVJ calculator says that I was within 5% of my predicted jump height of 29.3 inches. I took on this Smolov cycle precisely to get my squat up and raise the ceiling of my predicted jump.
If I can get my totally naked squat up to 365 @ 185 (and my knee wraps squat to 400?), I should expect to jump as much as 34 inches with some practice, though 33 would probably be more realistic. It will be very interesting to see the result. This would be an example of squat strength increases alone clearly and directly improving vertical.
Edit: What I really want to find out is if I have some untapped inches that will be uncovered by plyos...or if I'm at the top of my ability at this strength level and will find more inches awaiting me after I add an honest 40-50 lbs to my squat.
65
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Checking My Premises
« on: June 20, 2011, 04:01:35 pm »
I am trying to understand what does what for jumping. So I'm putting out my understanding of what's going on. Feel free to correct me. (And thanks for taking the time to read this).
We're dealing with three things here:
1a) How much force is generated
1b) How quickly that generated force can be applied
2) How efficiently that force is transmitted to the ground
1a) is improved by barbells and plain getting stronger in the squat and deadlift for the lower body and bench press for the upper body.
1b) is improved with accommodating resistance, particularly bands, that ingrain acceleration in the lift, or just by lifting more explosively.
2) is increased by things that improve connective tissue quality, things that make the tendons less "squishy" or more resistant to leaking power by deformation. Is this the quality we measure when we talk about how reactive an athlete is?
People who excel at unilateral running jumps but who cannot bilateral standing jump very powerfully: these people are very reactive, i.e. they have "good" tendons/connective tissue that absorbs and transmits force well. But they usually don't have the muscle mass to generate the force quickly in the first place. So they benefit from taking running steps in order to get the energy that their connective tissue then very efficiently stores and transmits back and forth.
Power jumpers, on the other hand, can generate the necessary force themselves without having to run to do it. They have the muscle to do it and ideally have the ability to generate that force quickly as well. BUT if their tendons are "low quality", a lot of that force will be lost. A power jumper benefits when their tendons conduct energy well like a taut string versus a slack one. Right? A lot of power could be generated by large muscles, but then lost by slack connective tissue.
So someone who has increased their squat (and to a lesser degree deadlift) strength a lot may not see as much increase in jump height as you'd initially think because squatting alone doesn't train tendons to be more efficient conductors. That's a large part of what various reactive and shock drills do...?
A high jump requires a good amount of energy on the descent and then not losing that energy on the turnaround, generating more energy during the ascent, and losing as little of that accumulated energy as possible in the deformation of connective tissue before the bones in the feet have a chance to transmit it to the ground.
Pure ability to generate force quickly is demonstrated by the paused jump or a jump from sitting. From what I understand, the rate at which force can be developed has low trainability, somewhere around 5%. Increasing the amount of force you can apply in a small unit of time is much more trainable than trying to apply the same force in a smaller window of time. In short, you're better off getting your squat from 155 to 455 than you are trying to apply 45 lbs of force in 0.4 second instead of 0.6.
So a SVJ benefits more from squat strength increasing. Same with Bilateral RVJ, though reactivity training would help this jump get a bit farther away from the base SVJ than it would naturally be.
Reactivity training would also benefit the countermovement SVJ, however, because that countermovement helps only as much as the connective tissue can efficiently store and transmit the energy provided by the countermovement.
So a 3xBW Olympic style squatter may be able to jump fairly high from sheer strength, but his countermovement jump may not be much better than his paused/from seated jump. Improving reactive strength would benefit both, but maybe for slightly different reasons? The paused VJ because the lower leg becomes better conductors; the CMJ (and running bilateral VJ) because the entire lower body connective structure is more efficient at transmission.
Again, thanks for reading all this. Your corrections will help me design my own training better.
We're dealing with three things here:
1a) How much force is generated
1b) How quickly that generated force can be applied
2) How efficiently that force is transmitted to the ground
1a) is improved by barbells and plain getting stronger in the squat and deadlift for the lower body and bench press for the upper body.
1b) is improved with accommodating resistance, particularly bands, that ingrain acceleration in the lift, or just by lifting more explosively.
2) is increased by things that improve connective tissue quality, things that make the tendons less "squishy" or more resistant to leaking power by deformation. Is this the quality we measure when we talk about how reactive an athlete is?
People who excel at unilateral running jumps but who cannot bilateral standing jump very powerfully: these people are very reactive, i.e. they have "good" tendons/connective tissue that absorbs and transmits force well. But they usually don't have the muscle mass to generate the force quickly in the first place. So they benefit from taking running steps in order to get the energy that their connective tissue then very efficiently stores and transmits back and forth.
Power jumpers, on the other hand, can generate the necessary force themselves without having to run to do it. They have the muscle to do it and ideally have the ability to generate that force quickly as well. BUT if their tendons are "low quality", a lot of that force will be lost. A power jumper benefits when their tendons conduct energy well like a taut string versus a slack one. Right? A lot of power could be generated by large muscles, but then lost by slack connective tissue.
So someone who has increased their squat (and to a lesser degree deadlift) strength a lot may not see as much increase in jump height as you'd initially think because squatting alone doesn't train tendons to be more efficient conductors. That's a large part of what various reactive and shock drills do...?
A high jump requires a good amount of energy on the descent and then not losing that energy on the turnaround, generating more energy during the ascent, and losing as little of that accumulated energy as possible in the deformation of connective tissue before the bones in the feet have a chance to transmit it to the ground.
Pure ability to generate force quickly is demonstrated by the paused jump or a jump from sitting. From what I understand, the rate at which force can be developed has low trainability, somewhere around 5%. Increasing the amount of force you can apply in a small unit of time is much more trainable than trying to apply the same force in a smaller window of time. In short, you're better off getting your squat from 155 to 455 than you are trying to apply 45 lbs of force in 0.4 second instead of 0.6.
So a SVJ benefits more from squat strength increasing. Same with Bilateral RVJ, though reactivity training would help this jump get a bit farther away from the base SVJ than it would naturally be.
Reactivity training would also benefit the countermovement SVJ, however, because that countermovement helps only as much as the connective tissue can efficiently store and transmit the energy provided by the countermovement.
So a 3xBW Olympic style squatter may be able to jump fairly high from sheer strength, but his countermovement jump may not be much better than his paused/from seated jump. Improving reactive strength would benefit both, but maybe for slightly different reasons? The paused VJ because the lower leg becomes better conductors; the CMJ (and running bilateral VJ) because the entire lower body connective structure is more efficient at transmission.
Again, thanks for reading all this. Your corrections will help me design my own training better.
66
Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros / Hindu and Quarter Hindu Squats: Get Those Knees WAAAAY Out Over Toes
« on: June 20, 2011, 01:07:08 pm »
I took the advice to keep my shins near-vertical in most of my squatting. I wasn't playing any sports (just powerlifting) and over time I've discovered that I've lost strength in my knees in the knees-over-toes position. This is the position the knees assume when braking a quick run or descending into a powerful jump.
I've started doing higher bar squats which get the knees out a little farther over the toes, as well as some occasional front squats. They've helped, but I've still been feeling very unstable in the knees forward position.
Lately I've adopted daily bodyweight Hindu squats so my knees could get some strength in that position, but recently I discovered that quarter/half Hindu squats are even better. This is the position that PTs have been trendily warning people from getting into. But if you don't use it, you'll lose it. I'm regaining strength in that position and my knees are feeling better.
To see what I mean, stand up straight. Rise up onto the balls of your feet and let your knees bend so that they go way forward of the toes. Keep the torso upright and descend just a few inches so that your torso remains upright and you end up well above a parallel squat.
I'd lost the ability to maintain that position at all. I'm reacquiring it now. I do high rep bodyweight-only sets of Hindu squats to the full and half positions. I will hold both every few reps or so.
It's sad that the trend for the past few years has been to treat knees-forward as unnatural and even dangerous. I trace it to one style of squatting suited to multi-ply geared powerlifting becoming enormously popular. We've been pretending that quads aren't that important for athletic movement and that athletes never have their knees way in front of their toes on the field. But being strong in the knees forward position isn't just the prerogative of athletes; it's a basic trait of healthy knees. Being able to good-morning squat several hundred pounds while being too weak in the knees to squat with knees forward screams of imbalance.
I've started doing higher bar squats which get the knees out a little farther over the toes, as well as some occasional front squats. They've helped, but I've still been feeling very unstable in the knees forward position.
Lately I've adopted daily bodyweight Hindu squats so my knees could get some strength in that position, but recently I discovered that quarter/half Hindu squats are even better. This is the position that PTs have been trendily warning people from getting into. But if you don't use it, you'll lose it. I'm regaining strength in that position and my knees are feeling better.
To see what I mean, stand up straight. Rise up onto the balls of your feet and let your knees bend so that they go way forward of the toes. Keep the torso upright and descend just a few inches so that your torso remains upright and you end up well above a parallel squat.
I'd lost the ability to maintain that position at all. I'm reacquiring it now. I do high rep bodyweight-only sets of Hindu squats to the full and half positions. I will hold both every few reps or so.
It's sad that the trend for the past few years has been to treat knees-forward as unnatural and even dangerous. I trace it to one style of squatting suited to multi-ply geared powerlifting becoming enormously popular. We've been pretending that quads aren't that important for athletic movement and that athletes never have their knees way in front of their toes on the field. But being strong in the knees forward position isn't just the prerogative of athletes; it's a basic trait of healthy knees. Being able to good-morning squat several hundred pounds while being too weak in the knees to squat with knees forward screams of imbalance.
67
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Jumping And Smolov
« on: June 20, 2011, 12:17:04 pm »My arms would go forward form the 1st inch of squat descent.
I managed a triple with that weight the next day too. It's balance and flexibility right now as opposed to "core strength". If you balance right, the torso stays inline and the abs and low back don't have to work especially hard to keep you from toppling. I find it reinforces good movement patterns for maintaining a near-vertical torso in the high bar and front squats. It also promotes upper back and shoulder flexibility. Great warm up move.
...
So does anyone have any ideas about that switching phase? How many days per week? How much volume?? Which movements? I was thinking...
Monday:
SVJ w/ Power Jumper x 3 reps for 3 sets
SBJ w Power Jumper x 3 reps for 3 sets
Wednesday:
Unilateral Cone Hops
Unilateral Bounding over distance
Friday:
Depth Jumps to height target x 4 reps for 3-5 sets
(either from 18" or from 12" with a jumper band like JackW recommended)
Weighted Jumps
I like both unilateral and bilateral tuck jumps as warm ups. I probably won't have barbell access, but if I do I think some heavy eccentric would be good too.
68
Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros / Loose Wraps, Additional Pounds
« on: June 18, 2011, 11:47:29 pm »
I used to get a little worried about the extra pounds that knee wraps give me. I don't want to get wrong ideas about how strong I really am.
But it occurs to me that if the wraps aren't giving any pounds, then they're not giving that much support either.
Knee sleeves don't add much in the way of pounds, but that's because their main contribution is warmth, not support. My Rehbands were very broken in and no longer gave me even the two or three extra pounds they used to...but they were failing to keep my knees from getting banged up and filling up with fluid, too.
My wraps are probably giving me 5-15 lbs (hard to be sure), but that's worth it because my knees don't hurt and I don't have to keep draining them after every session like I did when training hard in the sleeves. I wrap loosely enough that I can keep the wraps on a few minutes before and after the set without too much occlusion.
Anyway, my point is that one shouldn't worry about those "cheated" pounds. If you need support, then additional pounds are a sign that you're wrapping tight enough for that support. If your knees are just achy and like to be kept warm, then sleeves are fine. If there's actual damage, then don't be afraid to wrap up and use some extra weight.
But it occurs to me that if the wraps aren't giving any pounds, then they're not giving that much support either.
Knee sleeves don't add much in the way of pounds, but that's because their main contribution is warmth, not support. My Rehbands were very broken in and no longer gave me even the two or three extra pounds they used to...but they were failing to keep my knees from getting banged up and filling up with fluid, too.
My wraps are probably giving me 5-15 lbs (hard to be sure), but that's worth it because my knees don't hurt and I don't have to keep draining them after every session like I did when training hard in the sleeves. I wrap loosely enough that I can keep the wraps on a few minutes before and after the set without too much occlusion.
Anyway, my point is that one shouldn't worry about those "cheated" pounds. If you need support, then additional pounds are a sign that you're wrapping tight enough for that support. If your knees are just achy and like to be kept warm, then sleeves are fine. If there's actual damage, then don't be afraid to wrap up and use some extra weight.
69
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Jumping And Smolov
« on: June 18, 2011, 07:05:43 pm »damn, you have freakishly long arms.
Yet I can do this:
70
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Jumping And Smolov
« on: June 18, 2011, 08:58:06 am »
I respond poorly to linear periodization, but respond incredibly well to concentrated loading. I've been banging my head against almost 2xBW high bar squat for months now so I'm trying a full Smolov+Feduleyev to get beyond that and hit almost 2.5xBW.
I also recently discovered the benefits of jump training and made surprising gains in just a few weeks. Smolov+Feduleyev restricts the jump training to the switching phase between the base phase and the intensive phase. I'm a little worried about doing too much besides squatting during the other phases, but I've kept in the low intensity jump stuff. I figured this would be a good time to incorporate easy unilateral jumping into my squat warm up. I either do unilateral cone/obstacle hops or unilateral tuck jumps.
Are there any other recommendations? Other drills that I could be doing now? Input on what should happen during the switching phase is also welcome.
I've gained 50 lbs and 40 lbs from the base phase before. But I never bothered with the switching phase or with jump training at all. Now I want to do the base, switching and intensive with the intention of getting at least 80 lbs all together. That would put me in the 2.5xBW range and I'd like my hops to have increased along with my squat.
Note: I'm not really doing anything else in training right now. I may bench and pull up once per week, but that's about it. I want to devote as much recovery as possible to squatting.
I also recently discovered the benefits of jump training and made surprising gains in just a few weeks. Smolov+Feduleyev restricts the jump training to the switching phase between the base phase and the intensive phase. I'm a little worried about doing too much besides squatting during the other phases, but I've kept in the low intensity jump stuff. I figured this would be a good time to incorporate easy unilateral jumping into my squat warm up. I either do unilateral cone/obstacle hops or unilateral tuck jumps.
Are there any other recommendations? Other drills that I could be doing now? Input on what should happen during the switching phase is also welcome.
I've gained 50 lbs and 40 lbs from the base phase before. But I never bothered with the switching phase or with jump training at all. Now I want to do the base, switching and intensive with the intention of getting at least 80 lbs all together. That would put me in the 2.5xBW range and I'd like my hops to have increased along with my squat.
Note: I'm not really doing anything else in training right now. I may bench and pull up once per week, but that's about it. I want to devote as much recovery as possible to squatting.
71
Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros / Re: In Defense Of WRAPS, Especially For Beat Up Knees
« on: June 17, 2011, 01:02:20 pm »
Thanks.
Not all of us will need knee support, but most of us who aren't "natural" strength/power athletes with robust joints should keep close watch on our knees to see if they could use some support. My knees would be a lot healthier today if I'd adopted sleeves and then wraps earlier on in my training instead of trying to be an iron man.
I also should have started foam and PVC rolling years ago. And taken longer breaks between high volume and frequency squat cycles.
Tight neoprene was enough for support for a while. Now I need to wrap up. Knee sleeves are just for warmth now and for walking around in to discourage effusion. I'll be using them in my jump training from now on, but I don't know if they'll mitigate the impact trauma enough to make a difference. I'll still use them, however, because every little bit helps.
And I have noticed an immediate difference with the sleeves. Quads hurt the next day, while the knees themselves don't. Before my quadriceps tendons and the entire knee capsule in general would be screaming after just a couple of days of high volume done frequently.
Not all of us will need knee support, but most of us who aren't "natural" strength/power athletes with robust joints should keep close watch on our knees to see if they could use some support. My knees would be a lot healthier today if I'd adopted sleeves and then wraps earlier on in my training instead of trying to be an iron man.
I also should have started foam and PVC rolling years ago. And taken longer breaks between high volume and frequency squat cycles.
Tight neoprene was enough for support for a while. Now I need to wrap up. Knee sleeves are just for warmth now and for walking around in to discourage effusion. I'll be using them in my jump training from now on, but I don't know if they'll mitigate the impact trauma enough to make a difference. I'll still use them, however, because every little bit helps.
And I have noticed an immediate difference with the sleeves. Quads hurt the next day, while the knees themselves don't. Before my quadriceps tendons and the entire knee capsule in general would be screaming after just a couple of days of high volume done frequently.
72
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Vert Improvement = Clean/Snatch/Jerk Improvement
« on: June 16, 2011, 03:33:13 pm »
I believe M.Rippetoe has said that squat strength and standing vertical are very good predictors of snatch, clean and jerk numbers, obviously allowing for levels of skill.
I was getting pretty smooth with my snatches at around the three month mark, but the best I ever did was 94% of bodyweight. Best clean was 88 kg at 80 kg bodyweight. Meanwhile, high school kids were putting up double bodyweight with ugly "football" cleans. I was just plain weak and very slow by comparison.
There's a lot of talk about efficiency, or being able to snatch or clean a target percentage of front and back squat weight. I guess I wasn't all that weak (back squat near 2xBW and front squat about 75-80% of that), but I was slow. My vertical at the time was 22" with the occasional 23". I am very curious to see how much better I would do now with about the same squat strength but a much higher vertical (27" usually with the occasional 28"). I just started Smolov and don't want to mess around with max snatch attempts right now, but I am very tempted. Of course I could just wait till Smolov+Feduleyev ups my squat strength and I get my vertical up another 3-4 inches and then see.
345 BS x 22" SVJ = 74 kilo snatch
405 BS x 32" SVJ = ?????
Sorry to keep on with this, but I was banging my head against the same snatch and clean numbers for months and I would be thrilled if my current training actually improved my classic lifts. The classic lifts themselves are often pushed as ways to get stronger and more powerful, but I'm more and more convinced that for a lot of people, the classic lifts are a demonstration of strength and power and that squatting and plyometrics are superior for improving strength and power.
I was getting pretty smooth with my snatches at around the three month mark, but the best I ever did was 94% of bodyweight. Best clean was 88 kg at 80 kg bodyweight. Meanwhile, high school kids were putting up double bodyweight with ugly "football" cleans. I was just plain weak and very slow by comparison.
There's a lot of talk about efficiency, or being able to snatch or clean a target percentage of front and back squat weight. I guess I wasn't all that weak (back squat near 2xBW and front squat about 75-80% of that), but I was slow. My vertical at the time was 22" with the occasional 23". I am very curious to see how much better I would do now with about the same squat strength but a much higher vertical (27" usually with the occasional 28"). I just started Smolov and don't want to mess around with max snatch attempts right now, but I am very tempted. Of course I could just wait till Smolov+Feduleyev ups my squat strength and I get my vertical up another 3-4 inches and then see.
345 BS x 22" SVJ = 74 kilo snatch
405 BS x 32" SVJ = ?????
Sorry to keep on with this, but I was banging my head against the same snatch and clean numbers for months and I would be thrilled if my current training actually improved my classic lifts. The classic lifts themselves are often pushed as ways to get stronger and more powerful, but I'm more and more convinced that for a lot of people, the classic lifts are a demonstration of strength and power and that squatting and plyometrics are superior for improving strength and power.
73
Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros / In Defense Of WRAPS, Especially For Beat Up Knees
« on: June 16, 2011, 11:10:16 am »
I have had extensive trouble with both of my knees. I had a bad MCL sprain in my right that took years to clear up. Caused effusion which limited range of motion and made the muscles shrink. Nothing could contract properly because of all the fluid. It took me draining the knee every day for eight months for that to clear up. Then my left knee got an effusion from overuse. I've been draining that one for almost a year and it seems to be calming down, but more slowly than the right did. The right knee is almost completely stable now, though I have to drain it every couple of months after heavy use.
I relied on Rehband knee sleeves for the longest time, but I've recently thrown in the towel and started using THP knee wraps when squatting heavy. I was trying to stay RAAAAAAW, but I wasn't doing my knees any favors. My knees are much happier since I started using wraps for heavy singles and for the actual work sets.
People will say that I'm getting extra pounds from the wraps and that I'm preventing my knees from getting strong. Ha! Preventing my knees from getting beat up is more like it. That's worth "cheating" ten pounds on my squat to me. If I don't use the wraps for the hard and heavy reps, my knee fills up within hours and has to be drained (the fluid just will not go away on its own with RICE). If I use the wraps, the wraps take the brunt of the trauma at the very bottom of the squat instead of my knee capsule.
As for those extra pounds, I'd say they probably don't amount even to ten pounds. The range where they "help" is the range where I'm bouncing off my knees anyway. The wraps just take the brunt instead of my knees. I've tried near maxes on the same day with and without wraps and didn't get any extra weight. What I did get was relief from knee pain at the bottom and confidence to pull down hard at the very bottom and reverse hard. Without the wraps I hold back a little, slow down and do something approaching a paused squat.
I see claims of people getting 50 lbs out of their wraps. But that requires an extremely tight wrap, the kind that makes you walk stiff-legged because you can't bend your legs under your own power. I've had one of the multi-ply powerlifters wrap me as tight as those guys do and couldn't handle the pain or control even warm up weights.
I relied on Rehband knee sleeves for the longest time, but I've recently thrown in the towel and started using THP knee wraps when squatting heavy. I was trying to stay RAAAAAAW, but I wasn't doing my knees any favors. My knees are much happier since I started using wraps for heavy singles and for the actual work sets.
People will say that I'm getting extra pounds from the wraps and that I'm preventing my knees from getting strong. Ha! Preventing my knees from getting beat up is more like it. That's worth "cheating" ten pounds on my squat to me. If I don't use the wraps for the hard and heavy reps, my knee fills up within hours and has to be drained (the fluid just will not go away on its own with RICE). If I use the wraps, the wraps take the brunt of the trauma at the very bottom of the squat instead of my knee capsule.
As for those extra pounds, I'd say they probably don't amount even to ten pounds. The range where they "help" is the range where I'm bouncing off my knees anyway. The wraps just take the brunt instead of my knees. I've tried near maxes on the same day with and without wraps and didn't get any extra weight. What I did get was relief from knee pain at the bottom and confidence to pull down hard at the very bottom and reverse hard. Without the wraps I hold back a little, slow down and do something approaching a paused squat.
I see claims of people getting 50 lbs out of their wraps. But that requires an extremely tight wrap, the kind that makes you walk stiff-legged because you can't bend your legs under your own power. I've had one of the multi-ply powerlifters wrap me as tight as those guys do and couldn't handle the pain or control even warm up weights.
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Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Vert Improvement = Clean/Snatch/Jerk Improvement
« on: June 15, 2011, 02:40:14 pm »
Thanks for the reply!
Quick note: my hands were all the way out to the collars on the snatch and the bar was still closer to my patella than it was to my hip joint. I can scratch my patella by shrugging down and not bending over. Combination of a fairly short torso and unusually long arms (almost 10% wider wingspan than height). That's how long my arms are and how badly I'm built to do the classic lifts and bench.
Good point about the hang versions and the stretch reflex. When I got into WL I wanted to do it right and practiced the lifts from the floor and occasionally from blocks, but never from the hang. Quickly got frustrated with that, like a 6'6" man trying to be a winning jockey.
Quick note: my hands were all the way out to the collars on the snatch and the bar was still closer to my patella than it was to my hip joint. I can scratch my patella by shrugging down and not bending over. Combination of a fairly short torso and unusually long arms (almost 10% wider wingspan than height). That's how long my arms are and how badly I'm built to do the classic lifts and bench.
Good point about the hang versions and the stretch reflex. When I got into WL I wanted to do it right and practiced the lifts from the floor and occasionally from blocks, but never from the hang. Quickly got frustrated with that, like a 6'6" man trying to be a winning jockey.
75
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Vert Improvement = Clean/Snatch/Jerk Improvement
« on: June 15, 2011, 12:04:17 pm »
I really got into weightlifting to become more explosive overall, not become a great weightlifter. Turns out I suck for unfixable reasons. I have really long arms: 6'4" wingspan at a little under 5'10". This vastly increases the distance of my second pull (the bar hangs very far away from where it has to come to rest on my shoulders) compared to if my arms were a few inches shorter, and keeps me from getting good bar position close to the hips at the start of that pull.
I've had great success just training jumps themselves to increase explosiveness. I wonder if this explosiveness will be jump specific or if I'll see improvements in my ability to do the classic lifts. I've already noticed that my near-max deadlifts and squats are moving faster. I had become a real "grinder" over the past couple years of raw powerlifting, but that quickly changed as I added inches to my vertical.
Obviously the classic lifts are about 1/3 technique so they require practice. But practicing them without strength or with just strength but no explosive ability is a waste of time, something I can tell you from experience. But at the lower levels I occupy, increases in raw explosive strength ought to carry over, oughtn't they? I plan to test this assumption in a few months after I get my vertical a full 10" higher than it was when I was practicing the classic lifts.
I've had great success just training jumps themselves to increase explosiveness. I wonder if this explosiveness will be jump specific or if I'll see improvements in my ability to do the classic lifts. I've already noticed that my near-max deadlifts and squats are moving faster. I had become a real "grinder" over the past couple years of raw powerlifting, but that quickly changed as I added inches to my vertical.
Obviously the classic lifts are about 1/3 technique so they require practice. But practicing them without strength or with just strength but no explosive ability is a waste of time, something I can tell you from experience. But at the lower levels I occupy, increases in raw explosive strength ought to carry over, oughtn't they? I plan to test this assumption in a few months after I get my vertical a full 10" higher than it was when I was practicing the classic lifts.