Adarq.org

Jumping
5xSVJ dunks
5xRVJ dunks (off 2-3 steps)
5xME RVJ jumps

Interesting that tonight I jumped as high as I can remember on this court, albeit weighing a portly 198.5lb (90kg) in clothes and socks-only before leaving home. So i'd say w/ basketball shoes take me over 90, maybe 199.5 or so (dunno what they weigh). Anyway I tried out the new thing of keeping a conscious flat back on the jump, suddenly I could land those SVJ dunks convincingly. That was interesting. It's not so clear how to employ the same technique on RVJ but i'll figure it out.

Then I took off my big oversize, heavy cumbersome bball shoes and put on my lightweight running shoes which I use for the occasional, bi-annual jumping session. I wanted to touch the top of the backboard square, that remains my training goal, and at 90kg bw, it wasn't really in the realm of possibility. So imagine my surprise when a lot closer than I ever have before?!! This is on a weak day, when i'm fatigued from squatting, with very little jumping practice in me. So wtf is going on, i dunno but it's interesting that being 10-15kg overweight i just jumped as good if not better than I ever have on a vertical touch test. I really wish I had some sort of coloured powder or something so I could leave a mark on the backboard to measure against but i didn't have any handy.

So this gives me a lot of motivation going forward. If i am a mere 3-4" away from my prized holy grail of touching the top of the backboard square, perhaps i'm not doing too badly in chasing athleticism. I mean right now my relative strength sucks (barely over 1.5xbw FS). So when I add the next 14kg to the bar and take off 15kg off my belly, perhaps just maybe, this slow, unathletic whale will soar above 36" and beyond. Thank you and good night.

Training
FS 1x136 (PR)
BS 4Fx126, 4x125, 3x120, 5x117.5, 5x115
BP 8x84 (PR)
ABZ 3x8xrollout

FS notes:
Not bad but I can do a lot better. FS 1x140 by friday is probably too ambitious though but I will still give it a honest shot, if i sleep and rest properly and feel strong and fresh on friday, it's doable, otoh, with my backsquat doing so poorly perhaps I should compromise some.

BS notes:
Form clicked, I made it a very knee dominant movement ,i dont know how or why, but it was cool. I still can't rep out my sets though which sucks but i only have myself to blame for poor leadup. I might try 3x6x127.5 on wednesday all the same. Oh btw it's due to a lack of leg strength endurance that I cant do more reps, otherwise my core held up ok. I am really disappointed with my backsquat numbers right now

summarising -- 2x6x127.5 on wednesday will make me extremely happy..

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My PR for 6 reps on backsquat is 128. If i'm failing to get 126 or 125 and 120 not to mention 117.5 and 115 then it goes to show even on such a weak day i can still get a front squat PR. This tells me i have a lot left in the tank, maybe 140kg on friday isn't so crazy. Conversely if i'm doing poorly on my backsquat on a weak day, what's my potential on the backsquat on a strong day? I dunno, i wish it were 135kg plus for 5-6 reps but that's interpolating far too much. At some point i'll just accept the fact that i'm not able to rep over 130kg for whatever reason, and just chase a different goal (150-150kg max) instead.

Lots of good replies above, sorry I haven't got around to acknowledging them yet.

LBBS, what you say about being 'strength' to hold the ball without being stripped is a skill is true, just not what we're talking about. Actually ChrisM came closer when he spoke about playing thru contact. That is an example of (physical) strength which is what i'm particularly interested!

Mutumbo000 got what I was getting at with having a strong physical game. He gives the insight that Rugby players who are fearless have been doing it all their life and do not shy away from contact. Todday gave more detail on this mindset and how it begins from an early age. I can relate to Mutombo about avoiding contact because i'm not build to hit ppl. T0dday might be, being a big burly stocky guy compared to someone like me.

I dont particularly want to play grindy and physical either, it's not attractive to me, actually that's a dirty aspect of the australian game, it's too physical and not enough finesse and skill which seems vulgar. In fact to me, an athletic, finesse game is ideal, and that's what drives me to work hard on increasing my athleticism because i'd like to out-move, out-jump, out-strength out-think my opponents. I'd like to dance around them (with my superior trained athleticism) AND in anticipation to what LBSS might say (it's a skill not athleticm) i'm sure it's related to physical /strength/power/reactive ability/etc which isn't a skill. I can work on my skills, should work on it  will work on my skills, that's going to happen regardless.

But coming back to strength, real physical strength on the court or the field. When you make contact with a strong player you feel the impact and power that the athlete is generating. Even if they weigh only 165, they hit hard. When you're guarding them as they drive, they're generating surprising amounts of momentum and you can feel it if you make contact, it's irresistible.  I'm intested in both facets of this, both being able to generate that kind of power, and also in being able to resist it (being immovable).

Raptor says its "system strength" or that he just has no weak areas. That's true WHEN HES ON THE COURT. He HAS to be, he's been doing those same movements all his life. Put him on a football field or hockey rink and you'd expose all sorts of functional strength deficits! Take a farmer that tosses hay bales all day every day...look at him in his element and yes, hes "strong", take him away from that element and what happens though? You'll find weakness. (This is why SST is SO important as well!)

And Mutumbo go to probably the heart of it.... He's NOT a pussy. (can't think of any better way to put it actually). He knows he's going to get it, all the small guys do, we still go in there and bang because we don't give a fuck, we just want to win and thats the bottom line.

It's a mindset. A mental toughness polished through years of competitive play and the nature of a true competitor. You can't get that in the weight room, you can't get hit during drills or shooting sessions or even the most intense practice. It's forged on the field of play. Period.

^this sums it up

- Use your hips/bum- these guys that seem immovable have great hip strength and have learned to use their hips/bum to either block out or move their opponent to their advantage. If you've ever watched AFL think Chris Judd. Not the biggest guy out there but has great hip/core strength to be able to stand up in tackles and not get moved/shoved off the ball. As a big guy on the basketball court this skill is essential. 

Thanks, that's what I need in the post, which is an area i'm not confortable in, and quite frankly, I don't know if I need to be, being 6'3" and weighing 75-80kg lol. I mean I would like to be able to defend well but as far as posting up on someone who outweighs me by 20-40kg yea that's not going to happen.

2) As Mutumbo said.... There is just no replacement for toughness.   Unfortunately, this might be a bit harder for someone to acquire because you can practice all you want but you might not have toughness.  Toughness is really acquired pretty young; you can pretty much tell from an early age which kids have it and which kids don't.  Basically the kid with all the broken bones who doesn't seem to fear much socially or physically and is a bit crazy...   Usually only children/first children have less toughness and young girls are more cautious.  Exceptions to every rule.   One way to be tough is to just naturally not give a fuck or have a bunch of older brothers that beat the hell out of you all the time...  The thing about being fearless is it's a bit maladaptive...   I think the only way to really acquire toughness is to play a collision sport where you realize that you just have to let go and go absolutely crazy.  I didn't start playing football until high-school and I was pretty afraid to hit during drills because they coach was forced to make us watch tons of videos about spearing and paralysis so I tackled high with my head to the sky and and always received blows when tackling.   One day I was already moving full speed and somebody came out of no-where and I had little choice but to dip a shoulder and I was able to pancake the guy and continue running over him.  After that I realized the benefit of delivering the blow rather than receiving it and became somewhat addicted to tackling and started playing like the strongest guy on the field....

The confound here is described in point #2.   To some extent you can figure out "toughness/physicality".... but it's easier to figure it out if you are also bigger and stronger to begin with.  Throwing your body into the other player will almost always yield a better result than flinching and cowering... but if your really weak your gonna get wrecked and your glasses broken either way.... so you won't get as much positive feedback to inspire your toughness.  Perhaps your teammate complain that your soft.... But since you are tall and useful to the team they don't complain very loudly. 

The bottom line for you is to not go down any further the path which you have started.  No offense but I call this the typical "nerd" approach to sports.  They find that they have some disadvantage (example: "you get the ball stripped the other guy doesn't") and then they take an approach where they essentially say "Ok back to the lab to figure out how to model the problem and ameliorate this deficit"....   Then the waste a bunch of time doing shit like band bicep curls with my hands clasped to increase strength for ripping the ball through the lane...  This is the kind of idiocy that spawns things like bosu ball squats....

Don't waste your time... Yes, you might be too old to get the type of toughness Charles Barkley had.    But if you want to be the best forward you can be in basketball you just have to go down your checklist and KEEP IT SIMPLE:  Get bigger and stronger in the weight room, practice, practice, practice to get better and better at the game, AND TRY HARDER, imagine something that makes you mad, go to a crazy place, whatever works for you, but play and practice inspired and it will fall into place.  You are doing great and doing all you can do... Don't derail yourself.

This is great advice.

This is something I'd been wondering about too. In an ideal defensive stance you want to have a flat back too. It's something I found I wasn't doing when I reviewed video of my game. Does that cost me the ability to react better? It's interesting. Also when it comes to jumping, do we take and hold a breath, tense our core like we would in a heavy squat? I dont think I ever get a chance to think about those things, wonder if I do them anyway, or if not, it holds me from jumping better/higher? Would like to do some experiments to find out.

Interesting discussion in the dunks thread, thought it was worth a decidated thread.
 

I don't get how people maintain such a vertical back when jumping off two... I always have to bend forward at the hips to jump, and almost look to the ground. That's why I'm thinking maybe it would be a good idea for me to do front squats/high bar squats with a more vertical back.

Is it just a matter of lack of quad strength?

Core strength and stability imo. Collapsing at the waist is wasted energy.

Quote from: ChrisM on October 05, 2013, 11:50:17 am

Core strength and stability imo. Collapsing at the waist is wasted energy.

I always thought it's a matter of weak quads, so the body wants to recruit the posterior chain more by bending foward and putting tension on the hamstrings/glutes more and relieve the tension off the quads. But it could be so many things.

Training
FS 3x90, 2x110, 1x120, 1x130, 0Fx136
BS 3x120, 3x126, 1x130, 1x135
FS 3x115, 3x108
BS 6x110

BP 4x90 (PR), 8x70 (paused, PR)
WCU 2x92, 7x90, 5x94, 5x92, 4x90
HKR 2x15x90 (PR)

FS notes:
This is the warmup sequence i'd like to have, the only time i have to take plates off is going from 90kg to 110kg, i have to swap out the 15s for 20s. Maybe i could work up to 3x100kg so I don't have to take plates off for 90kg and can just add 10kg up to 130kg from 60kg onwards.

BS notes:
Kinda thought to work up to a heavy single because I wasn't really able to do reps. I got 135kg, which isn't great considering I doubled 140kg a few weeks ago not to mention 6x128 should convert to closer to 150kg than 140 but the lesson I learnt from that is higher reps are ok for pushing up strength but 1rm calculations are not very useful to me as I need to be able to actually lift a heavy max for athleticm's sake, not just compute one on paper.

FS2 notes:
Pretty disappointing attempts at 5 and 6 respectively. 5x115 i kinda dissuaded myself out of a PR because for some reason I was thinking 6 reps and there was no way i could do another 3 but in fact I only had another 2 reps to do for 5. Either way, it was going to be a difficult grind and I was in no mood for that shit today.

BS2 notes:
I wasn't game to do more sets just doesn't seem worthwhile to work hard while using light weights, i'm not motivated by that shit.

Core and misc notes:
Hanging knee raises seem like a good core exercise, especially while i'm overweight.

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^lol exactly. size vs strength. gym strength vs on court/field strength.

 I miss Lance I bet he'd have some insight on this hardness quality i'm on about. If this sounds a bit like raptor then it's probably because i am a bit of a pussy when it comes to sport. I'm very competitive in the sense that I hate to lose. But I don't think I play physically hard the way the guy i'm describing does. I feel as though it's partially because I played most of my basketball as an adult with glasses (didn't get contacts til my mid 20s) and by then i'd already become a bit too soft in avoiding contact and making too jerky movements lest i lost my glasses and have them trampled or destroyed. That still happened a lot, i've gone thru at least 5 pairs of glasses that way. But i think it's made me kind of reluctant to play physically in the way i'm describing. If you can help me be more hard on the court i'd be very grateful. Or even just help me understand the phenomenon more deeply.