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Messages - T0ddday

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481
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High
« on: November 23, 2015, 05:48:49 pm »
No the drag force is proportional to the square of the velocity... in other words the person reading your journal doesnt need to know becauae unless your running in a hurricane its not affecting your times... and if it is a hurricane... you shouldnt be running...

482
400m Sprinting or Shorter / Re: Sprint Videos
« on: November 23, 2015, 12:31:52 pm »
I agree that's it's going to be damn near impossible to run 45.x if you can't run sub 11.  The 400m has a large enough aerobic component that you can't realistically run your splits from the shorter races... 

I also agree that speed reserve is a really important training tool to be aware of - I was disappointed with what Bobby did to Allyson Felix this year in getting her to run the 400m, just completely neglected her 200m speed...   

However, the main disagreement that I have with you is that these trends hold true more for the elite world class guys.  In my time around the true outliers I realize that they are really the anomalous ones for which we can't make claims about.  The toronto raptors basketball team was training in our facility on Saturday - the first thing you notice is not that they are tall but that they all have ridiculously massive wingspans - almost comical.   Outliers are strange and they have capacities that don't make sense.   There are a bunch of calculators out their that predict times for the 100m, 200m, 400m, based on times for other races... In general they are actually pretty accurate if the athlete is in shape...  But they are least accurate for the outlier elite guys.  The truly elite guys will have such specialization that the carryover to other really similar events (such as just running a different distance will be less...)

483
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: A Journey to Running Fast and Jumping High
« on: November 23, 2015, 01:20:39 am »
Quote from: seifullaah73 on November 21, 2015, 10:47:30 am


Workout
   60m sprints with head wind medium/high
     1. 8.75   Left lead leg   
     2. 8.75   Right Lead leg
     3. 8.72   Left Lead leg
     4. 8.84   Right Lead leg
   
 

LOL you think the head wind is a factor at those velocities?  Remember, it's proportional to square of velocity...  Why even switch legs?  Figure out what's comfortable and stick with it... too many variables is bad... ignore the wind, it doesn't matter!

484
400m Sprinting or Shorter / Re: Sprint Videos
« on: November 23, 2015, 01:15:31 am »
Quote from: Mutumbo000 on July 21, 2014, 08:49:49 am
Yeah 800m runners are still fast because they need to have a lot of speed reserve in order to be able to sustain that sort of pace for 2 laps.
Most world class 800m runners can all run 400m in sub 48. To be able to run sub 48 you have to be able to sprint 200m in at least high 21s/low 22s. Of course to be able to do that you got to be high 10s/low 11s minimum. These are just conservative numbers the best of the best like Rudisha blow these figures away.

Eh... Not really... You would be surprised.  For some of them your actually too conservative but your underestimating how different the variance is among sprinters when you say you have to run X to run Y...  I had a training partner who was a 51.x 400m hurdler, and had a PR of 47.9 in the open 400m.  He was 6'5 about 180 and had a long loping stride and there was no way he could crack 11 seconds in the 100m.  He had trouble getting significantly under 12 seconds.  His 200m PR was high 22's and in most open 200m he would actually run 23.x despite the fact that I have seen him split 22.8 in the first 200m of the 400m.   As sprinters get really really specialized you would be surprised how little general trends hold for them...  Additionally, I can look at myself of an example where all the trends break that other way - 6.67 60m, 10 mid in the 100m, 21.9 in the 200m, and 50.0 in the 400m...  Some people are good at making speed others excel at holding it... 

485
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Kingfush
« on: November 19, 2015, 09:28:11 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on November 17, 2015, 04:12:48 pm
you do dip that low. guess i'm just really, really unreactive.  :uhcomeon:

Weird.  Your single step vertical jump and standing vertical are COMPLETELY different.  One is this crazy quad-driven movement and the other (IMO) has almost too little ground contact.  You are truly turning jumping into a complete exercise...

486
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Kingfush
« on: November 19, 2015, 09:24:55 pm »
Quote from: Kingfish on November 15, 2015, 11:28:42 pm
Quote from: bball2020 on November 15, 2015, 11:46:56 am
I can't tell in your vids, do you or did u wear belts for squats?

no belt. just push belly out while eating gulps and gulps of air. not as effective if you get very lean.

Interesting comment... Something I have not been able to figure out for years is why does squat suffer so extremely when cutting weight...  Do you think this is the culprit.   I've been my strongest at a not super lean 220-230lbs (squat ~ 500lbs, deadlift 600lbs, bench 295, clean 295, etc)...   Then I cut weight to around 195-205lbs and my squat just absolutely plummets...  405 on the bar just starts getting stuck while all my other lifts either stay the same or go down by a much more moderate amount...  I've seen this repeated in some many people - that squatting is just soooo much easier when you are fat and heavy.   This is especially puzzling because the squat involves a barbell + your own BW while bench press, deadlift, etc hardly involve any of your body weight...  The reason people claim for the lost strength is "it's all leverage" but I never really bought this...    Perhaps your touching on something interesting in that having a little belly actually makes squatting easier...

487
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: June 16, 2014, 11:28:11 am »
Quote from: LBSS on June 16, 2014, 10:20:43 am
Quote from: T0ddday on June 16, 2014, 12:48:44 am
I am absolutely confused by how some of the guys on the forum insist on training alone.   Maybe LA is just different but down here you can't walk around a track without seeing a training group and joining one is a piece of cake... If you just be friendly at the gym and track you should be able to get your way on a team...

believe me, i've looked. the only track groups i've been able to find around here are for distance running, or else are too far away to be practical without a car. i could join a triathlon or power lifting or olympic lifting club tomorrow. but sprinting just isn't a thing in this area unless you're in high school. the club that organizes track meets in the area has weekly track workouts but they seem to be for middle distance runners.* if i could go back to high school now i'd join the track team and just beg to do sprints and jumps even though i'm better suited to (i.e., not quite as horrible at) the mile. but i'm 27 and got my diploma 10 years ago. don't think they'd let me on the team.

the point is: LA is different.

*that said, i never got a response when i emailed some months ago asking about sprinting practice. would be worth reaching out again to see if they just misrepresent themselves on their website.

I guess just because I am shocked doesn't mean what you are saying isn't possible.  I haven't met training partners in the DC area (well besides LBSS) but I can tell you it is insanely easy in both LA and New York.  Last time I was in New York for business I linked up with Central Park Track club and they have multiple 20 point guys and great coaches...  Also, met some other athletes just at the gym and organized more training.   

Perhaps searching on the internet isn't the best way?  I mean I have seen PVTC and Maryland Masters track club but perhaps neither exists anymore.  In LA at least it's really all about location.  Most tracks/fields you will go to and their will be nothing but a bunch of kids playing soccer.  But venture into the right neighborhood and find the right track and it will be nothing but elite sprinting groups and NFL combine training and an absolutely incredibly level of talent.   The same is true for gyms... mostly just terrible atmospheres but we have a few gyms actually dedicated to speed and even a gym entirely dedicated to increasing your vertical jump...

I have no idea if this will work in Australia but you might have more success if you keep exploring some different tracks for training.  At least in LA the best tracks are in wealthier black neighborhoods and the environment at these tracks is pretty serious and if you are interested in getting more athletic an environment like this would help astronomically.   I honestly believe we could fix your bounds in about 3-5 sessions if you had our group with you to compare against vs the months it might take you to iron it out yourself.

488
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: June 16, 2014, 01:01:18 am »
Quote from: Raptor on June 11, 2014, 04:50:38 am
This is very interesting as well:

http://inno-sport.net/Get%20Your%20Bound%20Out.htm

That chart has no basis in reality.  I trained a rugby club where I got almost every member to broad jump 8.5 feet or more.  Not one of them could break 11.70 electric.  Charts like this are stupid. 

Broad jumps and vertical jumps are tests.   Running the 100m is a sport.  Predictors for the 100m are silly... EVEN 60m predictors for the 100m are a waste of time. 

I know the 100m might not be as involved as something like playing basketball but strength gurus need to respect it a little more and realize that this is not simply a test but an event that track athletes pour their lives into it.  Claiming that you can predict it from some other athletic movement is like claiming that you can predict someones basketball skill by how high they jump.... 

Anyway, as far as LBSS is concerned...   I don't know if it's so much hip extension as much as it's hip separation.  The hips have to rotate opposite around the pelvis and they just are not doing it... When you drive your arms you are driving them both up at the same time your hips are splitting... Then you have to drive the leg down as fast the the back leg drives forward again...  Here is an example of someone far better at bounding but what I will do is tape some guys I train with who are sprinters and not good at bounding (I'll try and get our 10.0 guy on tape... he jumps 40 inches and is athletic but not necessarily a bounding expert --- seeing him would be a glimpse into bounding for athleticism)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbPScSmwxrg


489
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: June 16, 2014, 12:48:44 am »
Quote from: Raptor on June 11, 2014, 06:25:21 am
Quote from: entropy on June 11, 2014, 06:23:29 am
It may make a small difference (say 2-5%) but that's about it. That's not a good return of investment. I know i'll get more out of squats than any of that plyomumbojumpo. It's an icing to the cake, something you do when you've tapped out from squatting. IMHO.

Translation:

"I know you're right... but I don't want to do plyo work because I suck at it and I will get depressed by my display in it. So I'd rather continue strength training and pretend nothing works, so at least I have something else to blame besides myself".

Lol.  I actually get the point that entropy is trying to make.  But I also get why everyone is pulling their hair out with frustration trying to respond to him and help him. 

A couple things. 

Entropy. If you are going to make statements that have absolutely no evidence except for your personal experience then quit pulling numbers out of your ass.   You have no business or no way of knowing that reactive training makes only a 2-5% difference in ability.  That's ludicrous.  When you make statements about numbers peoples BS meters go off and they will bring the truth to you.  A look at a decent college track team in America will tell you otherwise.  The coaching at Central Florida brings in a bunch of girls running 11.9 - 12.5 in the 100m.  After four years and no squatting they have a bunch of women with much less squat strength running 10.9-11.3 (a massive increase in top speed).   

The better translation is.  I am Entropy.  Despite the fact that I am really slow I have made efforts to get faster and do reactive work and FOR ME it hasn't helped.  I believe I am the outlier and I can't get fast.  The one thing that has worked for me is squat to bodyweight ratio which hasn't made me any faster but has increased my jump.  I'm going to stick to that because it works for me. 

*** Note: I don't necessarily believe the above statement is true but it is at least possible.  People are different and Entropy is an individual...  One thing I will say though is that it does seem really really really hard for people to get good reactive training in by themselves.  I have seen people who train alone make gains in the squat rack.  I have also seem them make great long endurance gains.  But.... as far as top speed and reactivity... iron sharpens iron..   Without teammates it is really hard to practice proper form and make improvements.  My suggestion would be of course.... join a training group.  I am absolutely confused by how some of the guys on the forum insist on training alone.   Maybe LA is just different but down here you can't walk around a track without seeing a training group and joining one is a piece of cake... If you just be friendly at the gym and track you should be able to get your way on a team... 

490
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: June 10, 2014, 08:55:51 pm »
Quote from: vag on June 03, 2014, 08:02:01 am
Oh , so your bounds  are awful compared to a 10:xx 100m sprinter and a 20 year old pro long jump athlete? Soooo depressing!  :P

Jokes aside, they are not that bad. I am sure they would improve fast if you kept at them, no? That is what maria suggested too in her journal IIRC, practice makes perfect ( no shit ! ).

Well I've had some time off and won't be full bore for another month when I move to my new place.  To test my performance without training I jumped in a meet and I'm not a 10.xx sprinter anymore!  I ran 11.7 and 23.5 without training.  The 100m was ran into a 7.6 m/s headwind however which was REALLY crazy.  The officiating tent and wind guage blew over by the time we ran the 200m so I don't know what the wind was then but I'm sure it was still very strong....  Anyway, to end the journal hijack...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I agree with you and disagree with vag, raptor, etc.... Your bounds are not acceptable because you are not getting the benefit from them.  You would be better served just doing single leg jumps then bounding like that.  It's a simple fix though:

1) Stay on the grass/turf.  As you get powerful and efficient you will get hurt on that surface. 

2) The most important point:  You MUST LEAD WITH THE HIP.  You are leading at the knee.  I commend you for trying to emulate an elite triple jumper with the butt-kick hip hinge but what you end up doing is butt-kick without your hip swing...

It's hard since you don't have stills but look at your video "Uglier bounds 2 jun 2014".  Try to pause at the top of your height at about 22 seconds or again at 23 when you are right to the left of yellow pole...  What you notice is that your back knee is almost in contact with your front foot.   

While I'm certainly not a jumper watch my video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Rv4HycljE) and watch my peak height at 3 seconds or so and notice that before my foot comes down my knees are not close to each other.  The goal is to swing from the hip here so the foot unfolds from the butt and then swings all the way through.   Your knee is bent but your knee is not back; does that make sense?    What you really need to see is how to properly swing that hip and that's it.   That really is the recipe to all dynamic sprinting, bounding, jumping, etc.   Our fastest guy in our training group runs 10.05, our next fastest runs 10.2.  The faster one actually is worse at bounding but when still leads with the hip...  Even if you just hang your leg behind you and swing through at the hip that would be an improvement.  This is why I don't love knee bend dominant exercises like squats for athleticism because I feel it can take away the most important and powerful hinge.

--- Besides this I would take the advice of the others.  Start with single reps.  Then double reps.  Then LLRR over and over.  Also make sure that you can nail a standing transition bound.   Baby steps and you will get it.   Although form is important one thing you can do is measure your ability.  Try to see how far you can land in 5 bounds.  Get better for a few weeks.  Then make form tweaks that will make you go even farther. 




491
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: June 10, 2014, 08:20:25 pm »
Quote from: entropy on June 10, 2014, 09:55:25 am
Its not how it works though in practice when you're taking steroids. I don't know much about steroids but I do know the training is completely different from naturals. You do less intensity and more rep sets, pump work, like bodybuilding when juicing. It leads to more muscle growth that way, that's what i've read, have no direct experience obviously. I do know that I need a lot more volume and intensity to make gains. A lot of these guys don't tell you the full story of what supplements they had their guys on.

What are you talking about?  I don't get how you can slam raptor for quoting Internet wisdom and then come back with this is how steroids work because this is what I've read.  Nothing of the sort is true about steroids.  Additionally the magic enhanced recovery myth is greatly exaggerated as well.  Internet wisdom about steroids basically falls into two camps. 

Those people who like my old coach are bitter that they didn't make it past trials and are convinced that it's because everyone else was on steroids but them...  They propagate the myth that steroids drastically change the athlete, that an athlete on steroids is nothing like a natural athlete, that an athlete on steroids has to train differently and lift in a different manner than other athletes.  This rhetoric makes steroids seem especially out of place in competition because not only do they give an athlete an advantage in competition but they force him to change even the way he trains which really ruins that idea of sport/competition. 

On the other hand you have steroid users whose goal it is to justify steroids.  They repeat the mantra that steroids "just allow you to train harder".  They claim that steroids allow you to recover faster so you can train harder; this makes it seem as if they aren't cheating but rather using a tool that allows them to outwork their competition. 

In reality neither one of these camps provides any useful information.  The recovery thing is BS.  Do any of you train with females?   If steroids had such a drastic affect on recovery then females (who have 100x less androgens) would be sore for weeks after a workout.   This isn't the case however.  In reality steroids don't provide the athlete with magical recovery.  They don't change the way you lift and they have very little affect on training.  At many D1 programs all across the country men and women train with the same speed coach.   If anything the volumes might be reduced slightly for the higher-androgen faster men.   Steroids will allow you to put on more muscle which indirectly leads to more strength.  They allow you to do it without massive caloric surpluses that will also increase fat.  That's about it. 

492
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: April 10, 2014, 03:09:17 pm »
Quote from: vag on April 09, 2014, 04:35:59 am
No , it was all out and it was 16 seconds, it just probably does not translate to a 16 seconds 100m dash on track.
Consider those sprints are:
-Hand timed.
-Standing start.
-Holding mobile on hand while running.
-Running on terribly slippery gravel.
-Even 100m includes a turn ( because of the field dimensions ), and it is not a soft oval turn, it is 90 degrees.
-Finishing time is not accurate, i either have to cut pace so i can press stop at finish line OR i just raise the phone and look at the time.

I do plan to go on track and get a stopwatch and/or video to get more accurate measurements, but it is too early for that yet, this was just the 3d time sprinting after 1 year of absence.

That is why i said i don't care about the measurements themselves. It was something around 16 seconds for something around 100m.
I am more interested about what the correlation with the other times say. ( 26s 150m - so 10s for the 100-150 and 38s 200m , so 12s for the 150-200 and 22s for the 100-200 in total ).
The inaccuracy in track-time-correspondence is still there in all those measurements, but the circumstances were the same so the relative differences can tell something about speed endurance or i don't know what...

Toddday???

Honestly, I have no idea what to make of running on terribly slippery gravel.  It sounds dangerous.  Isn't there a grass hill or something in the Eastern Bloc that is at least safe?  I wouldn't worry so much about the distance (although I would remove the 90 degree cut) and I would invest in something called a stop-watch.  You lean back on your drive leg and push off as you start your watch and then reach across and stop your watch on your first ground contact past the line.  I can do this and run 150 in between 17.2-17.9 each time (the variance is more like 17.4-17.7 during the reps when timed by someone else).  It takes practice but you can make hand timing yourself a useful practice tool.....

Anyway, I can't advocate running on slippery gravel or using a phone to time but IF one had a safe 80m surface I would just run 80m.  Like LBSS said you could run lines of 80m down and back just fine for tempo.  We actual used to do it as a turf cooldown and integrate skips and backward work and it was really great. You can get all kinds of fitness work in like that.   

As far as the times.... IF this was a track you could make some statements but since it's slippery gravel it's really hard to say.  IF it was a track your 200m shouldn't be grossly more than your 100m X 2.    Otherwise you are in such bad shape it's ridiculous.   The times you report however do push the 200m into almost a lactate run so it changes the scale a bit.  In general I would say if you run 100m in around 15s you shouldnt need more than 33-34 for a 200m.   Get to an oval and get your splits that way.  100m, 200m, 400m.

493
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Age vs Vertical
« on: April 10, 2014, 03:00:38 pm »
Quote from: Raptor on April 08, 2014, 05:37:04 pm
I can't help but to think that if you're finishing the 100m in 16 seconds... you're really not giving it your all. When I sprint it's pretty much the only time (it also applies in skanderberg, for me) - when I give it my all. Everything I have. It's yet another weird thing about me. Failure in sprinting is not an option. Knowing I didn't give it my absolute best is not an option. It's really hard to explain.

So... 16 seconds sound like an eternity and sound like a submaximal sprint to me.

So what time do you finish the 100m in when you give it your all? 

Sprinting isn't just "effort" training.  Sprinting teaches you to store force and become more reactive.  It's better than simply hyperventilating and running in place.  Giving it "everything" you have and "failure is not an option" are two reasons I would suspect that your perceived max effort sprints are not maximum speed sprints which IS the goal.  As for vag... more later.

Speed really is all relative.  You can't determine effort from a time.  In fact time and effort are quite poorly related.  10.1 is really submaximal for this guy.  Not so much for everyone else.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZsAP0vljI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erZsAP0vljI</a>

494
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: April 09, 2014, 12:24:19 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on April 09, 2014, 11:27:44 am
what...is...stride...cycle...


The cycle your leg goes through when you sprint.  What happens immediately after toe off and before the next ground contact.  How much force you put into the ground is going to depend on how powerful you are; but having optimal mechanics between ground contacts can help you get your leg better prepared for the task. 

495
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: a fast and explosive donkey!
« on: April 09, 2014, 10:14:29 am »
Quote from: LBSS on April 07, 2014, 11:30:29 pm

C-skips are gonna be a bit of a mindfuck, i think.

secondary question: best alternative on days when it's pouring rain? we don't have the southern california luxury of nonstop nice weather.

The girl in the bounding video has pretty terrible form tbh.  It's a bunch of nonsensical drills... why sprinters need jumping jacks in beyond me.  Keep it simple... Strides, strides, strides till warm.  Sub max pogos, dynamic stretch (walking lunge, etc), then get your straight leg bounds, your stride cycle and your single and alternate bounds in. 

Obviously I have never had to deal with rain :).   Seriously, it depends on what you mean by pouring rain... If it's thunder and lightning and you obviously can't train outdoors you can try and do tempo on a treadmill or ideally indoors at a track.  If it's just wet or rainy you can still train and it's a great day to do speed endurance actually... Just don't let yourself get too cold and you can still get on the track.  Remember track meets are rain or shine; no reason why you can't recover under the bleachers and then get out to the track to get some reps in. 


Quote from: Raptor on April 08, 2014, 04:47:15 am
By the way Today, do you have any suggestion for a good bounding progression to LEARN bounding? I can only do them on the same leg, on my left leg. I can't do them alternating, I totally mess them up... after 1-2 jumps I'm completely out of rhythm. I assume LBSS would have the same issues.

Is there any bounding progression to actually learn how to do them, from easy stuff to more complicated until you end up doing good form alternating bounds?

Well I would suggest you learn them on the right leg first... you should be able to teach yourself if you already have left leg bounding down.  It depends on a few things such as what arm swing you use.   Single leg bounding should be about reinforcing a full stride cycle; foot hits butt with thigh parallel to ground (like it always does on all your skips).  Alternating leg bounding is about driving the forward leg down WHILE the back leg swings through....

I'm no alternate leg bounding expert; i'm not a gifted single leg jumper by any means but they are a drill you should be able to figure out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Rv4HycljE

That's about as bad as your form should be.  Consider that video progression 1.  Just let yourself cover 12 yards in 5 jumps when you are learning.  If that's too hard break it down even more.  Take a single step and jump off the left foot.  Drive your right knee high into the air and your left foot back to your butt and your arms load behind you.  Hold that pose.  Land on right foot and walk out of it.   Repeat over and over.  Then do it on other side.  Eventually you can land on right foot and as your trail leg comes through you repeat the motion on the other side and eventually start chaining them together.  Keep the jumps really high and slow for now and limit yourself to some short total distance (if you have really short legs it might even be less than 12 yards).  The driving of the knee up and back foot to your butt should happen together and when you pull down it should happen together.  That's the coordination you are building.  It's a "folding" "unfolding" sensation.

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