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Messages - vag

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4696
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 21, 2010, 04:43:06 pm »
Quote from: adarqui on July 21, 2010, 04:23:25 pm
Quote from: vag on July 21, 2010, 12:42:31 pm
Andrew , i found some objects that i can use for pinch grip strengthening.
Best one is my ski boots , they weigh ~12lbs together and griping them together has a variable grip width choice which is good.
So , what reps and sets and style should i try?
I was thinking something like 3x10 , 1 set of 10 reps each hand for 2'' 3'' and 4'' grip , lift them from the floor , hold 3 secs on top , put it down.
Also my couch arm width is 3'' and perfectly flat , of course i cant move it but how about griping it and trying to lift it as hard as i can although it wont move? For like 3x10sec each hand?


check this post:

http://www.adarq.org/forum/strength-power-reactivity-speed-discussion/basketball-palming/msg10068/#msg10068

you can pretty much do anything really.. all you want to do though is make sure week after week your holds for time are improving, and you're able to rep things more or with a little bit more weight.. similar to regular strength training of course, but with grip, there are so many muscles & they recover so fast that it's best to just have fun with it and wing it every workout..

i bet this stuff helps you palm btw :D

peace

Ya i read it.
Im playing around right now... this thing is funny actually , trying to pinch grip various objects:
My ski boots ( 12lbs )
My skis ( 18lbs )
A 4lt water can.
Basketballs of course.
LOL , funny shit...

Thanks man , this is gonna be really useful...

4697
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 21, 2010, 02:49:32 pm »
21 July 2010

Conditioning/recovery workout
Weight@session : ~190,5

- 15 mins light jog

- 5 mins rest

INTERVALS:
- 10x40m sprints at ~90% , rest = walk back ( ~45 sec )

- 5 mins rest

- 15 mins light jog

Light jog felt awfull , feet felt "heavy" and weak , mostly at calves area ( calves , shins , side , everything ).
Sprints were awesome though, very powerful and explosive.

4698
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 21, 2010, 12:42:31 pm »
Andrew , i found some objects that i can use for pinch grip strengthening.
Best one is my ski boots , they weigh ~12lbs together and griping them together has a variable grip width choice which is good.
So , what reps and sets and style should i try?
I was thinking something like 3x10 , 1 set of 10 reps each hand for 2'' 3'' and 4'' grip , lift them from the floor , hold 3 secs on top , put it down.
Also my couch arm width is 3'' and perfectly flat , of course i cant move it but how about griping it and trying to lift it as hard as i can although it wont move? For like 3x10sec each hand?

4699
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Basketball palming
« on: July 21, 2010, 08:39:51 am »
Quote from: Raptor on July 21, 2010, 08:23:21 am
Yes but say you're very strong grip-wise and apply that strength to a slippery ball. The result of that will be the ball will fling out of your hand because the more power you apply to it, the more it has a chance to fly out. So you need to actually apply less strength and go up gingerly with a slippery ball.

I partly agree on that. What you say is true , that if you apply more strength it will fly out for sure, but i believe its because of this:
You are applying your maximum strength grip , but that strength is still not enough to palm the ball good. So the ball starts slowly slipping. You keep pushing as much as you can but eventually , its in the edge of your fingers , the direction of the force has changed now , it is in fact pushing it out , so the more strength you are applying now the easier and more far the ball will fly out of your hand. If you pushed less , it would still fly out , just not far.
If your applied strength was bigger than the "palming ball grip strength treshold" , it would never slip.
And yes , that "palming ball grip strength treshold" depends both on grip strength and hands/ball friction.

4700
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Basketball palming
« on: July 21, 2010, 08:08:57 am »
Quote from: Raptor on July 21, 2010, 07:28:51 am
I probably won't get approval, but it's not a matter of strength but a matter of skin quality/friction. If it was a matter of strength, then you would have to be so weak that you wouldn't be able to hold a cola bottle in your hand.

I mean, think about it - you just hold the ball for less than a second when you dunk. And yes, there is acceleration involved there which increases the ball's weight, but that is not important. The important thing is how much grip does the ball have, and what kind of skin you have.

Friction has a lot to do with it , agreed. Thats why you can palm better a new ball than the same ball when its worn out or dusty. But there is not much you can do to improve friction without cheating ( wax etc ).
So yes , if you have freaky friction in ball & skin , its much easier.
But if for a given friction you can barely palm it , improving that "pinch" grip will make you palm it better.
It has a lot to do with hand size too , if your hands are 10'' or bigger , then the ball is in your hand , its a "crush" grip.
The cola example is totally wrong , you cant compare grip between different size&shape objects. Same rule though , if your hand is bigger than what your trying to palm , its in your hand , its a "crush" grip. If its smaller you need a "pinch" grip.
For all of us ~6footers that our hands are ~8'' , palming the ~10'' diameter size 7 ball is a matter of pinch grip strength. :D


4701
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: Basketball palming
« on: July 21, 2010, 05:52:35 am »
Quote from: adarqui on July 20, 2010, 06:42:48 pm
palming relies on a wide pinch grip, so, some kind of plate pinching would be the best for it.. i know when i worked my grip hard doing plate pinches, that i could palm the ball pretty good.. my grip / pinch grip is way weaker now so i cant palm it for shit.

basically, you can plate pinch 3 ten lb plates, 4 ten lb plates etc.. or come up with a device like the one in the first video to add weight based on a smaller plate thickness.. you could make a pinch block, like a 2", 3" and 4" block with a rope that holds plates, etc.. stuff like that..

there's a few types of grip:
- pinch
- crush
- support

palming falls under pinch :P

peace man...

SICK info , types of grip and specific lifts for each , i like!!! thanks a lot! :D

4702
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 21, 2010, 05:13:46 am »
Quote from: adarqui on July 20, 2010, 07:19:30 pm

i tell you what, that hip pain never completely disappears once you really get it, for example like i had it for 1+ months at a very debilitating level.. i mean just the other day it was bugging me while i was jogging.. it doesn't linger around as much since im not squatting heavy + deep, but it does rear its ugly head once in a while and scares the shit out of you.. there's something about hip pain that just scares the fuck out of me, feels so arthritic.

nice workout tho mang, just don't aggravate those hip sockets ! :)

peace man

Word , its a pain like that , its here to stay. But its really annoying only on deep squats , so its fine.
One good thing of training at my age is that you are familiar with such pains , they're "part of the deal".
When i was younger and i got 'arthritic' pain i would also freak out. Now its like "oh well , add hip to the list of things that hurt". I have similar pain in my shoulder , from hyperextension on highest touch attempts. Its there for ~4-5 years. Now i dont even notice it , its still there , i just got used of it.

4703
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 20, 2010, 05:25:54 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on July 20, 2010, 04:12:46 pm
Also I was looking at some of your old vids just now and honestly the jumps looked better -- smoother -- in March than they did in the June vid. Like you're one-two stepping in the March vid and just kind of jump stopping in the June one, if that makes sense. Your numbers stayed pretty much the same or improved a bit so maybe I'm delusional.

Just an observation.

EDIT: Also, props on achieving Hero Member status!  ;)

You're right , in March it looks more fluid and the plant is clearly L-R , in June its more like im squating the jumps.
Explanation:
In March i was away from lifting for ~3months , June is after 3 months of heavy lifting.
Bodyweight in March ~187 ---> June ~200
Estimated max squat in March ~265 ---> June ~315
Rim of March video 9'8'' ---> June 9'10''
As for vert , June is 2'' to 2,5'' higher than March on everything , SVJ , dropstep , 2-steps , RVJ , everything.

I have landed much better and impressive dunks in that 9'8'' rim since March but didnt film them.
The only recent vid i have from that rim to compare progress from March directly is this (on my secondary account ):
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoPSlpNSfIU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoPSlpNSfIU</a>


4704
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 20, 2010, 03:48:36 pm »

STRENGTH BLOCK A   :  2:1:0  :  STRENGTH - STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE
STRENGTH BLOCK B   :  2:1:0  :  STRENGTH - STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE
EXPLOSIVE BLOCK A  :  1:2:0  :  STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE - EXPLOSIVE
EXPLOSIVE BLOCK B  :  1:2:0  :  STRENGTH - EXPLOSIVE - EXPLOSIVE
PEAK BLOCK              :  0:0:X  :  MSEM - EXPLOSIVE - SUPERMAX - EXPLOSIVE - MSEM
GREEN = DONE

20 July 2010

Weight@session: ~191,5 , END LOW BODYWEIGHT ALERT

PEAK BLOCK ,  Workout 'A'

FINAL WORKOUT OF THE SEASON

Depth Jumps : skipped once again because of yesterday's dunk session.

SQUATS , MSEM , rest between reps ~30sec , rest between sets ~4mins:
4x1@254lbs
3x1@297lbs
254 should be ~80% 1RM.
297 should be ~95% 1RM
ROM was ~3'' above parallel , i get hip pain lower , even in warmups , but at this ROM it was perfectly fine.
3 reps @ [1,6 x morning bodyweight] = good shit!

BSS , MSEM , rest between reps ~30'' , rest between sets ~4':
3x1@220
2x1@264

CALVE RAISES:
3x12@374
Rest between sets = 1'

4705
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Basketball palming
« on: July 20, 2010, 02:23:08 pm »
This is a crucial matter when it comes to dunking , it is so much easier when you can palm the ball.
So what exercises should we do to improve palming ability?
Is it the normal grip exercises , wrist curls etc or would doing specific stuff like ISO-ball-palming be better?

4706
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 20, 2010, 08:42:50 am »
Quote from: LBSS on July 19, 2010, 10:19:25 pm
Gah you were so close!

Yup , really close , if i got there earlier it would have happened!

=================================================================

Interesting happenings today morning:

- Measured the "high-rim" i was geting 7,5'' above , its 10'1'' so those were 33,5'' rim touches!
- Weight in the morning : 186 , LOW BODYWEIGHT ALERT!!!

4707
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 19, 2010, 06:26:05 pm »
Uploaded that weird 10' dunk miss i mentioned:

http://www.adarq.org/forum/adarq-org-special-content/age-vs-vertical-pics-and-vids/msg9910/#new

4708
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 19, 2010, 05:48:26 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on July 19, 2010, 05:27:18 pm
Damn, vag, you're wasting away!  :D

Good work on the jumps!

Thanks man...

Quote from: adarqui on July 19, 2010, 05:30:30 pm
sounds like another good session.. i'm starting to think though, that you might need a few normal sets of squat singles, before or after your quarter squats / explosive box squats..

prior to quarter squatting, you can easily hit a set of say 3-4 singles @ 90% or 6 singles at 85%, as your last work up prior to transitioning into quarter.. the same could be done before or after explosive box squat.. i would try it out this week just to see what effects it has on your next two jump sessions.. i think it will definitely help.. i just think you need a bit more focus on that specific ROM and to make sure it is 100% maintained.

peace man

Tomorrow is last gym day , i was planing to do exactly what you said , 2x3 MSEM singles at ~90%.
Last week was the only one that didnt have deep squating , peak block went :
Week 1 : Monday MSEM , Wendnesday Upper body , Friday Explosive
Week 2 : Monday supermaximal 1/4 squats , Wendesday upper , Friday Explosive.
Week 3 is this week , only 1 session , MSEM
Before that it was the explosive block that was 2 cycles of Strength-Explosive-Explosive hitting normal 3x5 squats on strength days.
So im guessing strength maintenance was ok.
Thanks for the tips though! :D


Quote from: vag on July 19, 2010, 05:01:22 pm

Then the 10' rim got free and i went there too
2x5 dunk attempts : 0,5/10 , i was pretty close but i was too tired after 30-40 max jumps already.
Kinda got a soft one in , got it on mobile cam too , looks like a dunk on cam too but im not counting it, ill upload it soon.


Saw that in very low motion , bleh , it didnt go in , very weird , its like an airball dunk.
The jump is from the right side of the rim and the ball hits the backboard left of the rim and goes down.
So bad news = it didnt go in , good news = at least 9'' above for that to happen , so at least 34'' :D

4709
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: vag's journal : Age vs Vertical
« on: July 19, 2010, 05:01:22 pm »
19 July 2010

Vertical jump testing/dunks session
Weight@session : ~190,5 !!!
Stim : minimum , 150mg caffeine 4 hours earlier.

Warmup as usual , 10' dynamic warmup , 2x30 line hops , and then some low/mid effort jumps.

JUMPS on 9'10'' ( 10' was taken again ):
-1x3 SVJs : ~28,5'' , maybe 29 ( equals PR ).
-1x4 2-step DLRVJs : ~32'' to 33''
-1x4 full runup DLRVJs : 32'' to 33''.
In all 2-step and full runup jumps i was touching rim 9'' below , but in some jumps i was hitting it going down , peak was before rim touch, mostly on full runup jumps.

Then i went to jump on a high rim of that park , not sure if its 10'1'' or higher , must measure , definately above 10'
1x3 2-steps DLRVJs : ~ 6'' above
1x3 full runup DLRVJs : ~7,5''

DUNKS on 9'8''
Practiced some off-the dribble dunks , mostly posting up , turning around with dropstep and dunking. Nice...
And then suddenly... i could palm the ball!
Threw down a sick one hander , all wrist inside rim , ball going straight down without touching anything.

Back to 9'10'':
2/3  handers , just ok
2/4 1-handers , just like what ive posted in my 9'10'' vids , nice dunks.
1 huge powerdunk , really hard , totally clean , wrist in rim , have only landed such dunks on 9'8'' so far.

Then the 10' rim got free and i went there too
2x5 dunk attempts : 0,5/10 , i was pretty close but i was too tired after 30-40 max jumps already.
Kinda got a soft one in , got it on mobile cam too , looks like a dunk on cam too but im not counting it, ill upload it soon.

Ok , thats all! :D

4710
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: ADARQ's journal
« on: July 19, 2010, 05:47:19 am »
Quote from: adarqui on July 19, 2010, 05:18:43 am
Quote from: vag on July 19, 2010, 05:15:23 am
Quote from: adarqui on July 19, 2010, 03:43:02 am
ok so.... the bodyweight only experiment has ended.. so, the have tons of fun experiment has started..

ok well, i can see myself really wrecking myself on this bodyweight shit again, because, i'll admit it, i'm greedy... the only way to provide significant overload is through depth drops and shock-like protocols... i know I can do it, it's just, do I have the patience to progress so damn slow and still risk injury such as my plantar fasciitis..  my exercise selection is limited on my bodyweight experiment, absolutely no devices / tools except for my GHR, so that leaves me to do lots of crazy shit in order to get results.. is it worth it right now? not sure.. i mean i'd love to complete it, but i also don't want to take waaay too much time adapting to drops/plyos.

i'll blog all this crap eventually and give my thoughts on pure bodyweight, I really think it can be done very successfully, as is kind of proof from how fast I got my RVJ up. plus you know what? i just want to do more stuff, more variety, and have more fun.. i get to use my thick bars, sled, and barbells now.. as well as my dip/pullup belt..

so, what am i going to do now? just have fun and keep up what i was doing, but instead of getting obsessed with my depth drops/plyos, i'll let those progress very-very gradually, which will be doable now that i'm going to mess with weights again.. i don't plan on going crazy with weights though, i'm still going to have a "more-work, lighter load" approach.


THANK YOU !!! :D

you planted the seed in my head a month or so ago, i blame you and your inception tactics :)

Haha , now you're back on track for 40'' so i feel no guilt! :D
BTW , i did like that experiment a lot , and going back to weights with the physical & mental gains from it will be sick.

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