Adarq.org

http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/sss_mg3

Mark Rippetoe and Marty Gallagher talking. One of the topics discussed is strength and bodyweight and many of you should listen to what is said. You do not get such a perspective elsewhere but it might be critically important to your strength training success.

This one was my favorite so far, but if you have not yet, you should check out the other interviews as well. They are quite diverse, so you should find something that is interesting to you.

I think we might not be on the same page here regarding the concept of "training".

"Training" is the planned process, by which measurable progress in skill is accomplished over time. In this context every single training session has a definite use. For a novice this definite use should always be to provide a stimulus for adaptation. One then rests until the adaptation has occurred and once this is, one got stronger.
To apply a new training stimulus, one cannot do the same again because the body already adapted to this. Therefore the stimulus needs to be varied in order to force further adaptation. The component of the work-out to vary here is weight on the bar.

Intermediate and advanced trainees cannot per definition make measurable progress in strength with a single work-out. For them work needs to be accumulated over a certain time in order to drive adaptation and make progress. The training stimulus then does not any longer consist of a single training session, but for example a week or even a month of training. They therefore can have a meaningful repetition maximum (rm), that has the attribute of being moderately stable. The same is not true for a novice. A novice does not have a repetition maximum that is moderately stable because every training session induces changes in this rm. Therefore you can forget about this concept altogether because it does not apply to you.

What you need to do is increase weight on the bar every time. And you start with a weight that you can do for 3 sets of 5 reps, in which you do not have to grind out the last set.

YEah, around 15 lbs of weight in last few months.  But I also started taking creatine in the last 2-3 weeks.

Good that you started gaining a couple kilos. However, an average increase of 5 lbs per week with a weight gain and taking creatine tells me that your strategy is everything but optimal. Do less volume and push yourself to PRs more often, at least 2 days per week. And make sure that you are in an optimally recuperated state on those days (enough food, sleep, rest time). Do sets of 5 btw. and keep eating while doing that. You are on your way!

If you make measurable progress quickly the strategy is good (10-15 lbs per week would be a good bench-mark for you). If not, it is not. Strategies are rarely optimal.

Quote from: steven-miller on June 24, 2012, 05:10:06 pm

@T0dday: I am curious about your thoughts on two things you said.
One is that you would have most athletes (5'10 and taller) perform single leg jumps if the goal was to have them dunk ASAP. This is interesting to me because I believe that this is in contrast to what most would think to be the best method. I do not know, because as a volleyball player I have never performed single leg jumps, but I cannot see the reason why it should be easier to increase the single leg jump compared to double leg jump. Could you elaborate on this?

The other thing is me wondering why you gave such a low recommendation for squat progress in the program you posted (30 lbs per 8 weeks). I said earlier that anything less than 100 lbs squat increase in 6 months would be "fooling around". Obviously this depends on level of training advancement quite a bit, but I stand by that in the case of a young, healthy, athletic and underweight person with less than a 2x bw squat. I tend to think that the 100 lbs is in fact a conservative number of what is possible to achieve in that time frame for a novice of said characteristics. In the given case, LBSS squatted 245 lbs x 3 x 8 as his last work-out. I say he could squat 380 lbs x 5, if not more, in half a year if he eats properly. Do you disagree?

two things:

1. i have a 2x bw squat. i squatted 355 at ~172 pounds. admittedly, it's lower now because i've been traveling and unable to train properly.
2. also because i've been traveling, i'm ramping up squatting carefully. hence the very light weight so far in my last few workouts.

I know that you did have a 2 x bw squat and I do not doubt that you will get to that level again soon. But you are currently not in condition to effectively train with weights that correspond with a 355 single, are you? Therefore your current training weights have to be the starting point of the calculation, otherwise it is going to be false.

All I am really saying is that a reasonable approach should be taken to your strength training. And reasonable IMO means to optimize gains in maximal strength first and as long as it has a measurable impact on the performance variable that you want to improve. And "optimize" implies to create conditions, that allow the maximum possible improvement to happen, bar a few reasonable boundary conditions (explosive movements need to be trained; skill training needs to take place; but both should interfere as little as possible).

The guy is an amazing lifter.

Quote from: steven-miller on June 19, 2012, 05:11:14 pm

Quote from: Raptor on June 19, 2012, 04:37:06 pm

In the powersnatches, though, it could be a matter of technique that's limiting you and not strength. For me personally, having weak shoulders, I'm afraid of using heavier weights (heavier than my max of 50 kg) since I have a BIG problem stabilizing the bar overhead and even keeping it there!

If technique is bad but consistent, the rule still applies. If you have a sufficient ESD you should be able to PR your powersnatch every week.

What if you're limited by upperbody strength like I am? I could probably powersnatch more than I currently am if I wasn't afraid of not being able to hold the bar over my head/stabilize it/stop it there etc.

And why powersnatch and not say powerclean?

If you don't have enough upperbody strength to stabilize more than 50 kg overhead your training went severely wrong.

Luckily, powercleans would work just fine as well.

So if someone wanted to increase his squat from 1xBW to 2.5xBW and his next plan is to do hypertrophy to gain some mass, which would be more muscle fibres to utilize. Would it be more wise to:

try increase your squat in the hypertrophy until you reach 2.5xBW

or

should the aim be increase muscle mass, which includes the squat but finish off when you have acquired enough mass and then move on to a strength training routine to carry on increasing your squat where you left of but instead of moving slowly like it was done during hypertrophy but with speed in mind.

or

is there another way because the aim is to increase squat and the hypertrophy workout is next.

You do sets of 5 in the squat every couple of days and add weight every time. You do this until you hit 2.5 x bw.

If you get stuck before (fail twice in a row), deload 10% and work back up. If you get stuck again (fail twice in a row), deload 10% and work back up. If you get stuck again, vary volumes+intensities in the squat over the week and hit PRs weekly. Always eat enough to NOT fail scheduled reps and sets unnecessarily.

Quote from: steven-miller on June 19, 2012, 10:55:14 am

And for type A stronger is possible without gains in bw, and for type B it is not - as we defined. So herein does not lie a solution.

Why?

Maybe athlete A can naturally recruit 80% of his motor neurons when he jumps, whereas athlete B needs training to get to those 80% from his current 50%. He can do that without the need of additional muscle. Once he gets there, then obviously there's no other way than increasing muscle mass.

If the person could increase his strength without adding more bw, he would not have a problem, right? He can do that as long as it works, I am not against it at all. But when this person gets seriously stuck being still rather weak and his training weights are creeping upwards very slowly or not at all, then there is no reasonable alternative to gaining more muscle. If you squat less then two times your bodyweight and you are not AT LEAST making a mean increase of 5 lbs per week in the squat over a considerable time span, you are fooling around.
Check yourself: Look into your training logs from 6 months ago. When the weight you were doing then is not at least 100 lbs lighter then it is now, then there is a problem (given that everything else in your training is up to par and you are still under 2 x bw).

The question is - how can you know where you're at in terms of quick&high % recruitment ability and if you should continue to work on that or not?

You train powersnatches. When you don't make progress at least weekly, you need to gain strength.