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I definitely agree with LBSS creating some sort of peaking phase to push for that extra height and to continue to motivate him but I don't believe dropping squats in some form of another is the way to go about it.

Why not?  What do you think happens when you drop squats?  What are you afraid of?  He stops squatting for three weeks and suddenly he is weak?  To you really think the body is that responsive?  I know pro-level powerlifters (who only job is to squat) who take a month off from squats every year.  They come back fresh and it actually helps them.   When you are pretty strong (as LBSS is) there is very very little to risk from taking a month off from squats.  At high levels strength is very well maintained. 

Here's an elitetrack article I came across a while back where several elite/ near-elite athletes discuss the same issue at hand. I only see one athlete who prefers to drop weights completely while most prefer some form of maintenance work (Jonathan Edwards actually had a session where he's going to failure on his Olympic lifts only days out from his record setting jump). http://elitetrack.com/forums/topic/maintaining-strength-through-competition-period/

I wouldn't call that an article... but the point is we have learned something since 2010.  Pickering showed some promise and IMO one of his failings was an overemphasis on weight training.  The Jamaicans strictly drop weights during championship season and now people are following suit  As far as Edwards his log that was released is something of lore today and it hasn't been released by him - even if it is accurate it documents that he doesn't squat at all - his lower body work is cleans almost exclusively...  There is also a lot of talk about how squats dampen the elasticity of the spine - I don't know how well supported that is but I can say that the compressive load of squats during championship season is something almost all athletes avoid.  Squats are base training - especially in track.   Track athletes don't have knee angles that break 130 let alone get close to 90.   Dropping base training during championship season is common sense.  Base training (squats) is work whose benefits are long term, come slowly, and are lost slowly.     I don't think I can overemphasize this enough - almost all athletes either disregard squats ( you should watch how seriously some sprinters take it -> not very) or start to make it too big a priority and end up being good lifters and bad athletes.  IMO some of us are falling into the second camp.  Remember - Kim Collins ran sub 10 without ever lifting weights.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't lift.  It does mean that lifting is base work rather than necessary work... nobody ever ran sub 10 without doing speed work, acceleration work, resistance of some kind (hills, stairs, lunges, bounds), speed endurance, mobility, etc.   These things are not base work - they are necessary to master to perform. 

With regard to the vertical jump, we all know the direct positive correlation that squatting has.

Do we?  Some correlation to the standing vertical, but I would not call the relationship that squatting has on the running vertical jump direct by any means.  You would be shocked at how low the squats of NBA guys are... even those who jump out the building.   If you lack basic strength then doing base strength work in the form of squats will help.   However, there are tons of powerlifters who can outsquat in terms of strength to bw tons of jumpers and dunkers but can't jump even close to as high... 

Not to mention that LBSS is a strength dominant jumper so considering the athletes' specific traits, it doesn't seem prudent to take away his strength. A different case might be made for a jumper whose highly reactive.

He is a strength dominant jumper?  How so?  He looks pretty reactive to me from his running vertical jumps.   Additionally he doesn't attribute his gains to 36'' from squatting - he attributes it practicing jumping (ie reactive work!)!    Finally, the recommendation was to drop squats for 3-4 weeks... do not conflate that "with taking away his strength".   Dropping squats is simply a tool to allow more work for more specific exercises for a short period of time...  It's not even that I feel squats MUST be dropped... but the paranoia about dropping squats on this board is a bit much...  It reminds me of the paranoia that sprint coaches have about letting there athletes go jogging for fear of complete conversion to slow twitch...  Remember, this stuff takes a long time!  Becoming an elite athlete doesn't happen overnight...  That sucks.  But the good thing about it is you don't lose it overnight or convert over night.  If you have been sprinting your whole life then going on a hike isn't gonna kill you.  If you put in 5 years in the squat rack building up your base strength.... It's not gonna get sapped if you leave the squat rack alone for a month...

A lot of interesting information.

Basically what I was trying to get at was, I was wondering if later in my training when my weight room numbers are pretty high and the return of investment gets much smaller, if I can just essentially stop doing lower body weight room work and still continue getting stronger (maximal strength), even if at small increments, by just doing plenty of single leg bounding at high intensities (using faster run ins , etc...)

Well... understand that if you stop squatting... your squat WILL go down.  Andrew made the point that maximal strength isn't lost but it's tested on something that has less skill than a squat like a leg-press.   Also, single leg bounding if intense enough will help you keep strength in something analogous - like a single leg legpress (although remember bounding is hip-dominant so you will lose strength in knee-extension single leg strength).  Double leg squats are very different... I was able to squat 500lbs on a surgerically repaired knee where I couldn't even go down into a 1/16 pistol squat.  Never have been able to come close to a pistol and I hate them, but still should hit better than 1/16 depth.  The point is double-leg squats are whole body compensation - if you don't have double leg shock or some type of very high intensity double leg bounding you will lose strength there. 

Wasnt pretty...  they are physically tired especially w the late boston game and now a flight to Milwaukee... more important they are emotionally tired... riding the high for so long for the brain is like an ecstacy binge...  there is a comedown and hangover...

Once they drop a couple they will be even better.  Scary.

Not saying I called it.... But I kinda called it.  I actually one 10 dollars from a friend who bet me they wouldn't lose till Christmas (I gave him 10:1 odds).   

Quote from: LBSS on December 12, 2015, 05:25:18 pm

Quote

T0ddday suggested that i spend more time jumping and de-emphasize or even remove lifting. still working out what to do but tried this today. legs beat, i'm not conditioned to jump this many times and maybe that's a problem.

de-emphasize sure, but I don't think removing it completely would be a good idea. You still need to be able to express more power in the squat, especially those MSEM singles you are doing. If you could get those singles close to ~2xBW, that would be ideal. Then you attempt to express that power in your jump sessions. If you plan on de-emphasizing it, you could condense it into something like:

Quote from: undoubtable on December 12, 2015, 06:45:48 pm

^^ x2 ^^

I wouldn't want to lose the benefits of at least one heavy lifting session a week (CNS, hormonal, muscular). I don't see any positive outcome coming from that. I'm all for trying new forms of jump sessions/ explosive lifting but I think you max strength work has always been a positive for you..

x3

Before everyone espouses the benefits of not dropping squats - I think we should explain the context my advice was given in.  Admittedly I am probably the least fan iron of everyone on the board and it's probably for personal reasons (I could dunk easily and was getting up around 37'' DLRVJ and SLRVJ and run 10.7 in college with a max-squat of 225x5, power-clean at 185, and deadlift of 405 [ dunno why by my deadlift was strong the first time I tried it...] ). 

However, my advice to LBSS was given in terms of his situation, desperate to dunk - has a 36'' jump and a 10'6 dunk and only wants to do a tip-in or alley-oop...  IMO he is probably jumping high enough to make it happen already with the perfect lob but essentially he is after that final inch so the day he is jumping well he doesn't need the perfect lob, just the almost perfect lob...

Given that I just outlined some strategies for peaking.  They are not what I would call good long term strategies but they work if you just want to see results now and don't care about what happens after.   Among them I listed hyper-hydration weight loss, crash dieting, hypergravity weight vests, and peaking by dropping weights from the program.  It's unfortunate that Ben Johnson's training methods got so famous because I guarantee he is the exception not the rule. 

Everyone else in track and field does some level of peaking around the world-championships or when they go for records.  I would bet a lot of money that when Bolt ran his 9.58, when Jonathan Edwards triple jumped 60 feet, when Mike Powell long jumped 30 feet, when Ashton Eaton destroyed the decathalon...  That all of those guys hadn't touched a weight in at least a month.   If the benefit of the heavy squats to the CNS was so great and irreplaceable then you wouldn't have worlds records falling to the guys who left weights alone. 

I think this might be a semi-semantic argument because while Adarq recommends a specific peaking protocol - in athletics the events themselves are the peaking.  The athletes who are peaking basically just compete a lot, maybe a trials of their event, do plyos, get tons and tons of therapy, and some easy tempo work.   I can tell you at this time of the season even though I was clearly not supposed to be playing basketball I always felt especially light (probably because most guys lose a bit of weight when peaking) and dunking and jumping were insanely easy...

GSW 124, BOS 119

24-0.

 

Wasnt pretty...  they are physically tired especially w the late boston game and now a flight to Milwaukee... more important they are emotionally tired... riding the high for so long for the brain is like an ecstacy binge...  there is a comedown and hangover...

Once they drop a couple they will be even better.  Scary.

Watch out... The place you are going to might be great but chiropractic adjustments are essentially a sham and a bit dangerous... often they will find things that are not even wrong with you... hopefully yours is good though?

Lol, your broscience bodyfat estimates are pretty entertaining...  Think of it more in terms of weight... sprinting is tough to calculate but as far as simple vertical displacement with equal power its pretty accurate actually tonestimate just using a ratio of weights...  for example your 200 lbs and if you cut to 180 then 200/180 = 1.11.  So you would have an increase of vertical displacement increase of about 11%.   

Ive run fat and skinny and buff and I can tell you raw weight hurts more in the 200 and 400 whether its fat or muscle...  from my personal experience I think if you get under 180 your un 23.x.

Lol.  Comment didnt bother me but I didnt read it in a negative way...  I read it as "I wasnt attracted to her".  But I see how it could be read as "she wasnt attractive enough for me.  I only talk to 9s and above.  She is an 8. No dice." Lol.  Phrasing is important.