I've just been going to the gym every second day and just doing a row, warming up, doing some O-lifting stuff (front squats, push press, hang cleans with 40kgs) and then rehab stuff. Today the court was free so I just shot around after my row warmup. I got pretty warm so I just tried a few SVJs and DSVJs. They were actually not so bad. Got about 33'' or so for my best DSVJ:
Well in that case its excellent! Lol. Thats embarrassing. Im surprised I would recommend woodchoppers, not becayae they are bad just it isnt a name I am familiar with. Because of your track background I would recommend more bounding and sprinting. Ill write soon.
Ha! It's funny when you don't remember writing stuff...happens all the time in academia as you'd know. I just put woodchoppers in because it's an easy rotational core exercise to do, which is something my myo recommended (he's also a sprinter/coach). Also do med ball twists sometimes. But that stuff is very flexible. Cool, will wait to hear what you think, I'm not in a rush to start it. Thanks mate!
Well in that case its excellent! Lol. Thats embarrassing. Im surprised I would recommend woodchoppers, not becayae they are bad just it isnt a name I am familiar with. Because of your track background I would recommend more bounding and sprinting. Ill write soon.
Ha! It's funny when you don't remember writing stuff...happens all the time in academia as you'd know. I just put woodchoppers in because it's an easy rotational core exercise to do, which is something my myo recommended (he's also a sprinter/coach). Also do med ball twists sometimes. But that stuff is very flexible. Cool, will wait to hear what you think, I'm not in a rush to start it. Thanks mate!
Back in high school I would jump the highest after doing "warm up and gymnastics" stuff for 50 minutes. I would be extraordinarily tired yet jump like crazy (but I was light, at 67 kg).
Now I probably jump the highest after 1 or 2 aggressive games of 3 on 3 (I rarely if ever play 5 on 5, I have no place/nobody to play with). Whenever I play 5 on 5 I feel so reactive, so much blood in my legs - I bet if I would play 5 on 5 consistently I wouldn't even need too much plyo work, except for actual jumps.
But I think the heavier you are, the more the jumps need to come "first" - or else by the time you get to jumping you'll be tired, your legs will be filled with blood and you'll be "muscle-bound", not reactive.
At least this is my experience with this so far.
Yep mine too, I think we have discussed this before. I wonder if it's just increased adrenaline. Either way it's hard to replicate outside of playing ball.
oh yeah that was a good routine. didn't help me jump higher, though. might it be worth getting away from the track for a while, because it's been the site of some discouragement for you? like focus on weights and SVJ for a bit, go full kingfish?
t0ddday put RVJ last for me, as well, and after trying it that way a few times i just ignored the instruction and put it after warm up and skater hops or MB OH throws. it helps to have one or two exercises to get firing but then RVJ should be done un-fatigued.
As much as going full kingfish is tempting I'll try to do it as written initially. Despite the crap season, I really like running and training at the track and it would keep me in touch as least.
rvj is last half for convenience, half because athletes jump higher last. it all depends on your work capacity and muscle mass.
OK I'll give it a try. When's your site going up btw? Very keen to check it out.
We have a site in testing. You can check out our instagram:
Don't worry about when you do the jumps. LBSS does them earlier because he jumps higher that way. That's the only rule. Do the jumps when you jump highest. The reason I like them last and a lot of athletes jump best when very very warm and sweaty (see raptor and my posts) and a easy weight circuit and hip activation takes care of this AND I trained a lot of athletes to jump where the gym and bball court were separated - so we would do gym THEN court. It was a pain to do gym, court, gym. I prefer gym then court (with jumps) because I think squatting after bball conditioning is worse. If you don't have this need for convenience you need to get a lot of volume of very high jumps however you can...
So what program are you going to be copying exactly? And how bad are the achilles?
This one:
I'll update the weights when I get a feel for where I'm at over the next few weeks. I decided to lighten the second gym session a bit weights-wise because it'll be on the weekend and I may be able to do more jumps then. But I'll see how it goes. There's a spot where I can do SVJ/DSVJ reliably though I think. I also might be able to get shed access at the track to get a shotput and tape measure. That'd be sweet.
Schedule would be [MON: rest // TUE: Track#1 // WED: Gym#1 // THURS: Track#2 // FRI: Yoga // SAT/SUN: Gym#2]
One thing that could change things a little is that some of my aths mates want to play in a bball comp at my gym, which would be pretty fun. The standard is not anything near what I used to play at, just hacks messing around mostly. If they get in it'd be on Mondays, so in that case I'd maybe attenuate the track session the next day (just shot tosses/tempo, less jumps). Would be good to get some pre-game jumps/dunk attempts in. I couldn't care less how I play though lol, just in it for the hops!
The achilles bursitis is feeling OK atm. I'm really wondering if my shoes were giving me issues over the last 6 months. I got some Nike Zoom waffle racers (cross country flats) to train in around August/September to replace my trusty Nike Free 3.0's that had holes in them. I seemed to get this issue roughly around then. The other day I played some pickup ball in some Nike Free 5.0's that I have, and the next day was expecting to wake up in pain, but weirdly it was fine. Hm, something to note. But overall, better.
P.S. Site looks awesome btw! Pretty cool to be training NBA players.
oh yeah that was a good routine. didn't help me jump higher, though. might it be worth getting away from the track for a while, because it's been the site of some discouragement for you? like focus on weights and SVJ for a bit, go full kingfish?
t0ddday put RVJ last for me, as well, and after trying it that way a few times i just ignored the instruction and put it after warm up and skater hops or MB OH throws. it helps to have one or two exercises to get firing but then RVJ should be done un-fatigued.
As much as going full kingfish is tempting I'll try to do it as written initially. Despite the crap season, I really like running and training at the track and it would keep me in touch as least.
I pretty much got in the best of my life 10 days ago. PR my squat ratio (1.8xbw), 2.5xbw hip thrusts, 8x180kg RDLs, low bodyfat etc, dieted down to a lean/strongish 74kg. If i was only concerned wih jumping/dunking (ala LBSS) i would have taken a few days rest and filmed some dunks then but i didn't have that luxury. Instead i had to prepare for and play a gruelling basketball competition and that messed me up athletically .. i prob did too much going into last week end then ended up eating my way to recovery, which didn't really do my bodycomp any favours. If i can get back to where i was 10 days ago bodycomp wise but with better lifts i'll be in even better shape and will be able to properly peak my athleticism which would mean taking some rest and raising calories to maintenance as opposed to a chronic caloric deficit. May never get there though, it's too far from where i am at right now. I dont really wanna look any further back than 2016 though. Im more athletic now than i ever have been before which is remarkable considering im 32 and not getting any younger.. heh.
Sure, I mean, there's no denying those are good numbers. I think you hit the nail on the head though when you talk about having <20hrs or less over the 3 months leading up to the comp, and how that was affected by your body recomping and being in caloric deficit. That's just....unfeasible if you actually want to be happy with your performance on the court. Thus, the body recomp has to be achievable and wrapped up early in your 'season'. Then the focus is firstly on practice/match play, with strength being secondary. I don't think I'm saying anything revolutionary there. No one would really expect, with 1h practice/week, you could compete at a high level in a skill-based activity like bball. I think you're getting that drilled into you enough though.
Seriously, fuck age. 32-35 could be your peak years! The stuff you hear about pro athletes peaking around 26-28 athletically and skills-wise is completely irrelevant to guys like us. They have been playing and training 2x a day for 10+ years and have nothing else going on apart from sleep-eat-train-PEDs. Now, there are definitely some changes in physiology from the age of 21 to 41 (T0ddday will know much more about this than me). Your 21 yo self vs 30 yo self will probably have more potential if you started at the same time, but the difference is overrated and no one has a time machine to do a repeated measures experiment anyway. What do you think contributes to normal guys falling off from athletic endeavours around 30? Fast twitch muscles atrophying, ligaments and tendons turning to jelly....or the fact that they accumulate preventable injuries, start working more, eating like shit and having kids. I think it's the latter but that's just me. Check this out:
Look at the 40yo triathlete's legs vs the 70yo's legs. They look identical. Compare that to the 70yo fatass in the middle. Ridiculous. I know it's a different sport but there are plenty of other examples. Dr Squat set a squat world record and probably had a 40'' SVJ in his mid-40s! And so on. Forget about the age thing. Train hard, maintain your body, eat well etc.
Btw acole: I always envy how easily you can work up to decent squat tonnage after a lay-off and you have perfect form, while it would take me the months just to add a few kilo to mine and still be way lighter than say 140kg which is what i'd consider the mimimum for anyone use uses the lift with very average form. I guess you're just gifted when it comes to the lift! It's awesome. I didn't know what htat was like until i started doing hip thrusts and worked up to decently heavy weights in a couple of weeks of doing them once weekly! If squats came as easily to me, i'd have a much easier time but i guess you get more out of lifts that are harder than those that are easier? Is it a strengths & weaknesses thing?
Thanks! I appreciate it. Even though I haven't squatted heavy in awhile I've been maintaining a 'squat-ready' state by staying mobile at night. This is a really good squat mobility sequence I do with inner tubes wrapped around my knees:
But apart from that I think it's more to do with my leverages than anything else and previous years of muscle memory. I would rather have longer legs so I was a bit taller, even if it meant sacrificing leverage. Unfortunately Dr Naismith had to nail that damn peach basket at 10' just to spite 6 feet and under guys like me.
Hmm..again, your question is about getting 'more' out of a particular lift you're predisposed for as opposed to a bad lift. But what is this mysterious 'more' entity? Everything you do in the gym has to relate back in some way to your goals. If hip thrusting makes you more hip-dominant and that helps you stay low in the post and have a more explosive SVJ then that's great! But if it doesn't do much for you, you can get strong at it but it'll be a waste of time.
man whatever happened to steven-miller? that guy was a dick. in retrospect that program is too all-over-the-place to be good for jump training. need much more volume of jumps, much less other crap. i don't like joel's program either, again because it's too GPP. he calls it an SLRVJ program but there's no actual SLRVJ! plus if you're worried about your achilles you have no business doing lots and lots of bounds.
i dunno, maybe try to get a 500kg PL total?
Funny reading those old threads isn't it? Yeah it was cool having a big German powerlifter on the forum but he was a bit too strength-biased. I probably need to focus on getting strong again but the core of the program needs to be the actual jump movement obviously. I think that holds from dunking right down to lawn bowls.
I was looking more at the workout T0ddday posted at the bottom of page 2. Looks pretty good. I did do Joel Smith's SLRVJ program ages ago and it didn't do much for me at the time but I didn't follow it to a tee from memory. It looks exactly like the type of training the jumpers at our club do, except for the fact that they also, you know, do the actual jump being trained on top of all that!
Here's T0ddday's workout he made for you awhile ago:
Quote
*** Track Workout ***
1) Dynamic Warmup, Leg swings, Fast leg, Skips, Strides 2) 10 Measured overhead backward shot tosses (16lbs, aim to get better at these every workout, do these on a field where you can measure your throw, more than 13 yards is required, getting close to 15 yards is good, close to 17 is very very good).
- Bounding/ Jumping ( choose about 3 of them and also include the running SL vertical jump and REALLY focus on improvement) -
1) 3-6 standing broad jumps 2) 3-6 Depth broad jumps (should go a lot farther on these) 3) 2-3 4 double leg bounds, 8 DL leg bounds (again measure these, hopefully you 4 DL bound is better than 4X standing broad jump) 4) Measured Single leg bounds** (ie LLLL or RRRR) 5) Measured Standing Triple jumps** 6) Running SL vertical jump (3 step, 6 step)
- Running -
1) 3-4 Full effort measured 60m sprints (Hand time will suffice as long as you have a buddy who can provide somewhat repeatable times) 2) Tempo Work (If necessary for fat loss, skip if you do weights following track work)
** Either do these full intensity and try to progress OR if you don't feel like you have the hang of it (ie you go less than 10 yards, or you don't get a full cycle in each leg or can't coordinate the arm swing... Then include them as part of the warmup and drill the form until you have it)
**** Weights/Gym Workout ****
1) Warmup 2) Powerclean or Powersnatch -> work up to a challenging weight for a couple triples 3) Squat. Work up to a challenging but not max single. Do 2-3 sets of 3-5 with 80% of this. 4) Standing Push Press 5) Deadlifts (Optional) 6) Circuit (Here is where you can do RDLs, Calves, Pullups, etc. This stuff is important but your mindset when you come into the gym should be in order of preference: Squat more, Snatch\clean more, push press more/deadlift more. Thinking about much more than this will cause you to lose focus. ) 7) Standing vertical jumps/Running vertical jumps [10 each] ____________________________________
That's really all you need. Try to do the track/bound workout 2x per week and then weights 2x week. If you have more time then you can add another day of weights or add 1-2 more days of track tempo (ie 6-8 x 150 or 200m at 75%) if you need it for fat loss. You can arrange it however you want such as Monday: Track Workout, Tues: Weights, W: Track tempo, R: Track workout (AM), Weights (PM). Friday rest, Sat: Weights (AM) Track Tempo (PM).
I could get behind that. The only thing I'm confused about is why he put SVJ/RVJ at the very end of the weights workout. I could understand it being directly after squats (I do that sometimes), but not after every other exercise...but otherwise it looks OK. Maybe take a couple of weeks just getting prepared to O-lift again, and heal up my bursitis, then do it. The only tricky bit is I don't have access to a shotput, or a weight vest at the track if I go myself. There's a vest at the gym and they have med balls that would suffice (even though the shot tosses are better because it's smaller and easier to palm). Anyway, they're minor logistical issues I could sort out. It would also double as a good off-season track training program anyway!
Unsurprisingly I didn't run very well at Stawell. I had no chance anyway but I still under-performed time-wise. Nothing really went wrong with prep or warmup, I just wasn't very fast.
In a bit of a slump atm and not really sure how to plan the next phase. I just am flat out not good enough to consider plowing away doing the club training so will be doing my own thing. LBSS's dunk has inspired me though. I think I will spend the off-season getting strong and trying to dunk at the gym. Because that will be fun and training has to be fun above all else. The rest of my life is difficult atm so training has to be some form of enjoyment. I think I'd like to still run next summer but it'll be a more focused on just short sprints as I have no business wasting time trying to run 100m+.
Firstly I just have to kick this achilles bursitis, as it'll really fuck up any SL jumping aspirations. I know once I stop running on it it'll improve, so not planning on doing a single stride for awhile.
Your dedication is 10/10 but your planning of training and movement is 1/10.
Look at your goals... You plan to hang around 160 for 4 months and then in 6 months get to 200lbs... 40 pounds of muscle in 6 months??? Are you kidding?
I dont know if it's unrealistic but i expect i can gain a couple of kilos of lean mass just by eating more food and carbs. Otherwise i'll aim for 1-1.5kg/month .. so 6-9kg in 6 months? It wont be all muscle even if i try to do it right but i dont mind dieting off a couple of kilos in the end .. though hopefully i wont have to .. haha.
Can you demonstrate how the body recomposition aspect of your training over the last few years has helped you further your athleticism, as opposed to what seems to be the majority consensus that your should just train consistently at a relatively stable and lean BW? Provide results to back up any claim. I'm not saying it hasn't, I just haven't been following the fine details to the same degree as you and I think it would help the discussion to fully clarify what you think about it.
nah it was a really localized pain point a bit above the front of my ankle. i've had shin splints before, this wasn't that. completely gone today, fwiw.
i read about a condition called ehlers-danos recently. i don't have it, thank god, but it kind of made me wonder again whether there is something congenitally wrong with my joints.* i am pretty much always in discomfort somewhere or other, and in fact i think i always have been. the pain comes and goes without apparent cause, at least most of the time.
*other than my big toes, which i know there is something congenitally wrong with them. namely, arthritis.
Yeah sounds OK then, maybe your ankle joint is just getting a bit jammed from all these new plyo exercises. Obviously I can't feel your pain but just sounds like the athletic lifestyle to me, not necessarily a bad thing. I can't remember the last time I was 100% completely fresh, no issues at all. I've avoided any major acute injuries but there's always some little annoyance or two.
Consistent 35'' though! You should craigslist yourself a lobber with all that new $$$, get this done!
worked really late, no exercise. some mild hamstring soreness
TODAY
morning:
WEIGHT: ??? SORENESS: none ACHES/INJURIES: right toe MENTAL STATE: good, a little sluggish
- warm up
- skater hop x 20
- one-step RVJ x 5
- DLRVJ x 16 a bit all over the place but technique started to come around reps 8-9. hit 36 right around there, couple 35s, rest 33-34.
MID-MORNING EDIT: my lower left shin is killing me. no idea why. hurts when i dorsiflex my foot. weird.
EVENING
WEIGHT: ??? SORENESS: none ACHES/INJURIES: hips, knees, right shin, right ankle MENTAL STATE: tired
- warm up
- skater hop x 20
- one-step RVJ x 5,5
- bound-bound-jump x 3,3,3
- paused speed squat 275 x 5,3
- decline sit up +30 x 8,8
- SMR, stretching, and activation parts of daily routine
no idea what's going on with my right shin. feels like i bruised it badly but there's no bruise and i have no recollection of banging it on anything. work has been really tough the last few days and tomorrow is gonna be nuts, too.
So is it your left or right shin, or both? Is it along the attachment of the tibialis posterior to the tibia (i.e. inner shin area)? Could be shin splints maybe, they kind of feel like a bruised shin.
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Well done mate, enjoy the feeling! Your next mission: get a good one on video to show the grand kids on youtube one day!