Adarq.org

Quote from: JC on April 16, 2011, 09:05:24 pm

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on April 16, 2011, 08:52:30 pm

Quote from: JC on April 16, 2011, 03:43:43 pm

Yes I played middle school and high school. Everything you're saying is because of increased mass not upper body strength. We'll agree to disagree. I never said getting stronger was a bad thing.

And you're agreeing with me anyway. Get better at passing/dribbling/boxing out/swatting through practice, and leave the weight room to get better at compound lifts and eat enough to put on mass. Like I said in the original post

"Just get stronger in general in your upperbody. If you shoot correctly your power should come from your lower body. You'll develop more range by practicing. Lifting isn't going to help with that."

Hey I was reading your back and forth with JelloPuddinPup, and I am legitimately interested in this topic because I have been wondering this same thing for a while now.  So are you saying that, if there were 2 players, Players A and B with same skill set who both are 6'0" and 180lbs, but player A is 15% BF, while player B is 5% BF.  And assuming they both have equal lower body strength/power, and the leaner player B is stronger as well (upper body), they will still be equal players?

Whoever has the better skill set is the better player. That situation is never going to occur though. It's always better to be leaner.

.................................. you're completely missing my point

Okay, lets say 2 players 6'0" 180lbs / exactly equally skilled / same body composition / same lower body power

But player A can bench press 300 lbs, while player B can only bench 180lbs.

Does player A have an advantage in basketball over player B?

I ask this, since you said mass is what helps in basketball, not strength when it comes to upper body.

Player B would be just as strong in real life. I'm not missing the point, you just changed the situation. But anyway, Player A isn't stronger than player B, he can just display his strength better on the bench press.  They would be the same player.

I know what you're trying to ask me, but that situation is impossible. And if it did happen, it wouldn't make a difference. F=MA

This goes back to another thread, people don't realize that weight lifting isn't the only way to display strength. If 1 guy squats 500 pounds and another squats 450, that doesn't necessarily mean the guy who squats 500 pounds is stronger. Weight lifting is a sport in itself. There's skills you develop besides actual strength gains.


And to clear things up for the retarded, I'm not saying don't get stronger. Getting stronger and eating a lot is the best way to put on mass. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Yes I played middle school and high school. Everything you're saying is because of increased mass not upper body strength. We'll agree to disagree. I never said getting stronger was a bad thing.

And you're agreeing with me anyway. Get better at passing/dribbling/boxing out/swatting through practice, and leave the weight room to get better at compound lifts and eat enough to put on mass. Like I said in the original post

"Just get stronger in general in your upperbody. If you shoot correctly your power should come from your lower body. You'll develop more range by practicing. Lifting isn't going to help with that."

Quote from: JC on April 16, 2011, 12:21:03 am

Explain how increasing your strength improves all of those things. You can't. I'm being 100% serious. You are never pushing someone with your hands in basketball, you are never pulling heavy things, you are never pushing heavy things. Think about it.

Being a "banger" has to do with mass, not strength.

I guess I just played in more physically competitive leagues and pick-up than you do. I've never played in a game where I wasn't shoved or shoved back. Do you not use your arms to help gain position for rebounding? Does strength not help you hold on the ball better? Does it not help you throw it further on a pass? Can it not help you block a shot from a strong finisher? Does it not allow you to steal a ball from a strong dribbler or out of persons arms? What about jump-ball situations where you're tied up? It sure helps you rip the ball out. What about dribbling? Stronger your arms, the faster you can push the ball away to the ground and the faster it will come back to you. All that is upper body. There is a reason that hs/college/pro players don't -only- work out their legs and core. Upper body strength is very important in the game of basketball.

Sure, you don't need the same amount of strength that football players or hockey players may need. And you don't have to be a bodybuilder. But getting to an above average strength level for your body/physique can only help you. In fact, I don't know of a single way that you can't get an athletic advantage in basketball by being stronger in the upper body. If you work out hard, and practice basketball while working out to get stronger, there's absolutely no reason it should hurt your game at all.

I really don't see how you can say it won't help -any- of those situations I listed. Your reasoning for just saying it won't is beyond me. I'm not trying to be argumentative or a douchebag or anything, I just don't see it.

Nope. You're not getting it so I'm not even going to explain it. All of the relevant ones you said have to do due with mass, not strength. You're going to get much stronger by gaining that mass, obviously, but that's not the point.

None of those improve with increased upper body strength besides defending the post (like I said before). Think about it some more. Bigger guys can dominate due to their mass, not strength. Best way to put on mass is to eat a lot and do regular compounds.

Just get stronger in general in your upperbody. If you shoot correctly your power should come from your lower body. You'll develop more range by practicing. Lifting isn't going to help with that.

Get stronger in these 4 movements and that will help you.

Horizontal Pushing (bench press, dumbbell bench, etc)
Vertical Pushing (overhead pressing)
Horizontal Pulling (rows)
Vertical Pulling (pullups, chinups, pulldowns)

Quote from: adarqui on April 15, 2011, 12:57:43 am

those analogies are bad..

Now chop a sprinter's dick off & run..

Now remove the hands from a sprinter & run..

same shit, bad analogies.

The arms, upperbody & torso play a far greater role in sprint speed than a sprinters dick & hands alone.

Point being, the estimation that 100% sprint speed is dedicated to the entire lowerbody is not true, hence the handcuff. You can't run to your full potential when you disable the entire upperbody.

Quote from: adarqui on April 15, 2011, 12:57:43 am

genetics.. they are all strong.. you can't produce alot of force relative to your BW and be weak..

if someone jumps 45+ inches and never weight trains, genetics, but, this person is EXTREMELY STRONG..

if someone runs 10.x 100m's or lower and never weight trains, genetics, but this person is EXTREMELY STRONG.

I would only regard World class powerlifters, strongmen, Oly lifters & a few bodybuilders as EXTREMELY STRONG.

How do you workout that someone who jumps 45+ inches or runs 10.x 100m's is EXTREMELY STRONG?.


Yes, there stronger than the average but I wouldn't say there extremely strong.

You just don't get it. I've explained it to you so many times, but you just don't.

Weight room strength does not equal real world strength.

You get stronger in the weight room to improve real world strength but there's neural adaptations that allow you to lift more weight. You get these by lifting more often. That doesn't mean you're stronger in the real world. Somebody who rarely lifts can still be extremely strong, they just display it in other ways besides weight lifting. Get your average genetic freak lifting and in a year or 2 they are going to put up ridiculous numbers. Does that mean they got stronger? Not necessarily.


Since you like to use weight lifters as examples. Powerlifters are generally stronger than olympic lifters. Olympic lifters can probably front squat and power clean more. Does this make them stronger? No. it means they got good at front squatting and power cleaning more through years of practice.