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That roller is OK, I just find they bend too much. My myotherapist friend has really emphasised how much you really need to apply force to the muscle in targeted ways to actually affect the tissue. A gentle foam roll is great for popping air in your vertebrae and getting a bit of blood flow but after awhile it just doesn't cut it. You could just have really tight adductors (inner thigh muscle) that are pulling on that attachment point at the knee. Just rub them hard with the roller then stretch them with a strap (anything will do, even a towel):



See if that helps. I had really tight adductors from sprinting and I think it led to knee tracking problems, chondromalacia and probably some medial patellar tendinopathy. It's hard because they're not something you necessarily think to do work on, and it's awkward.

For weight vest stuff, read LBSS or my log over the last few months, or PM T0ddday. Basically involves getting a 10-15lb (5-7kgs) weight vest, wearing it during daily activity and during warmups and most exercises you do except for ME jumps.

Quote from: maxent on June 15, 2016, 08:13:47 pm

^yup, but trying to stay somewhat discreet bout it since this is a nanny state and all haha..

BW: 81.2kg

i'm leaning out nicely ..  even with bodyweight going the wrong way. I suspect a combo of starting off with a higher metabolism rate and going on a sneaky cut + EC boost -> decent fat loss off the get-go. It's what, day 5? So far so good in terms of results. But mentally it's pretty hard .. i expect that to get better as i adapt...

training and game tonight .. feelnig pretty refresh considering i havent slept much this week..

What's the nanny state?  The forum? Aus? USA?

In light of EC use the "female" fat deposits do make a bit more sense...

Haha, I'm 99% sure he means Aus:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/welcome-to-australia-the-worlds-most-overregulated-nanny-state/news-story/49aa0a414ae87b9ef54e85b40af36b47

https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/10-laws-that-suggest-australia-is-a-nanny-state-021525185.html

http://www.news.com.au/finance/money/australian-drivers-hit-with-overthetop-fines/story-fnagkbpv-1226756866106

Also, speaking broadly I think the Australian community at large are very anti-PED...we hate 'cheaters'.

Quote from: acole14 on June 12, 2016, 06:20:44 am

Well these things usually come in threes...both knees (left chondromalacia/right tib-fib/peroneal nerve pain) felt mostly back to normal, had just been going to the gym everyday and doing the upper body/core exercises in Gym 1/2 alternating, with the ADEs as warmup. Then a couple of nights ago I woke up and felt like I'd got whiplash or something...both scapulae had seized up, tight AF and killing. Could barely turn my head. Next day was an absolute battle, wanted to stay home but had to go in to do animal surgeries that were finishing that day, worst day of the year by far. Really weird, pretty sure it wasn't anything I did in the gym the day before, was really just one set of pullups to failure and not much else. I think it was simply just sleeping wrong  .

Couple of days later and they've finally calmed down, can finally look up and down without pain...bizarre. Anyway I leave in a bit over two weeks so going to stick to the damn program for a bit I hope. I might strap a rabbit's foot to the weight vest though.

Yeah as I have now gathered a bit of data on vested training I can say...

1) Worst idea ever for sports.  Eg good luck making a layup when the vest comes off!

2) Very effective training tool.

3) More load is good.  Too much load is bad.  What is too much load?  Hard to say. 

However... The best thing about a weight vest is using it not during training and only for very light warmup a seems to be all benefit no risk.  If your coming back from injury this might be a good strategy.  I think there is certainly a benefit to using loaded jumps but just not without risk...  So if it's a risk minimization thing certainly take the vest off for training especially ME jumps.  I made great gains with vested ME jumps but I also felt like I was playing w fire to a degree...

Thanks for the notes. My previous experience using a weight vest was my old coach bringing it out around a month or so into the season, doing active warmup in it then 3x5 DL bounds, 3x5/leg SL bounds and alternating bounds from 50m x 3. Occasionally hurdle hops as well, nothing max effort but at least 90%. So similar lines of thought I guess. It was always a CNS intensive session though, really dreaded it...but that may be due to the scheduling, we did: Tues - blocks/re-accelerations; Wed- weight vest jumps+lifting; Thurs - speed endurance, with comps Sat and more gym Sunday. That was hard!

Quote

I might strap a rabbit's foot to the weight vest though.

lmao.. somehow that will end up causing injury though; ie, the added 1 oz to one side of the vest, making your body compensate. don't do it. 

Ha, I thought someone might say that! 

That's one thing we don't see alot on here; multiple sessions per day. Obviously work/life/school etc interferes with that.. but, even just ~30min of some light explosive work in the first session might be enough to "wake us up" even more, come evening. During my peak dunking, I was squatting several times per day - very high frequency, very short sessions.

The "multi-day effect" could potentially be a useful tool in itself.

pc!

If I could plausibly fit in more two-a-days I'd do it. We did this training camp from 26th Dec to 31st Dec the last couple of years to simulate being a pro. Initially it seems impossible that you could do 2x/day for five days, but most people do get through it fine, and the performance benefits across the group were always decent/good at least. But yeah, life is just too busy atm, not abnormally busy at all (I prob end up working around 35-40h/week, nothing insane), but the timing of some of my lab stuff makes it a bitch sometimes.

___________

My traps had calmed down a little, still stiff but I figured it was at that state where exercise actually would help a bit. Went down and did Track 1 pretty much 100%, except no weight vest and no med ball throws (as I was at a different track). Got it done pretty well, the 300m hurt after so much time away from the track! But happy to get a session mostly done without issues. Left knee is feeling good, right knee a little bit stiff but overall OK. 

Bro, how come you never hit me up?  I could have gotten you into a lot better basketball than Northridge hooping!  Is that an oz thing?  Acole is claiming he is gonna swing through LA - is that actually unlikely?

I won't leave you hanging mate! Haha..I might not have as much training under the belt as I would have liked, but I'd still love to come check out your training centre and actually see a vertec in real life 

$40USD for a month's supply, what a goldmine! I'm in the wrong job. Eat your 5-6 serves of vegetables, red meat occasionally, and drink coffee/green tea and you'll get everything in there without the unknown shit they put into it.

Lol at those studies. The first study says it significantly increased vit B and antioxidant status but they don't report a magnitude. So what! You could probably get the same effect if they ate 2-3 extra serves of green veg's a day. Second study is used to support claims of increased NO production, blood flow etc. The evidence is that the dose used in the supplement increases the flow-mediated dilatation of the brachial artery (arm) by 2.5% an hour later. Again, what does this mean physiologically? You can probably generate the same effect wrapping up your arm with a bike inner tube, or just eating more green veg's! It sounds like the thing they use is just resveratrol, which is dodgy AF: http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/resveratrol.html

The last study sounds great if you want to ride your bike for an extra 5 mins but if you're expecting that it will help with "explosive workouts" as they claim then...well, I doubt it will be a game changer. Not to mention that these are all tests paid for by the company itself! This isn't always a bad thing, biotech companies with financial interests in new drugs obviously perform clinical trials etc...but the difference is they are accountable to the FDA/reg authorities/shareholders/patients, and GNC isn't to nearly such a degree. So take the underwhelming results with a grain of salt.

Seriously, spend a bit of time on examine.com and narrow down stuff you might need to take. Be really critical, statistically significant results are not the ultimate measure, look at the magnitude of effect as well. IMO the only recovery supps worth taking are fish oil (if you don't eat tuna), vit D and maybe turmeric with pepper. You could try glucosamine sulfate (not hydrochloride) and see if it helps if you have inflamed knees (I haven't found it does anything for me). For performance, high dose caffeine and creatine are the only ones worth considering (not counting PEDs, some of which certainly work but are too dangerous). Get a good protein source and you'll get all the aa's your body will need, taking excess aa's probably just benefits your toilet when you flush them out. It would be nice to think there's a magic pill you can get from the pharmacist that maxes out your body's physiology for training/recovery but it's probably fantasy.

Sorry to hear! Hopefully with time and smart training the injuries will subside and the body will recuperate.

Thanks mate, it's nothing too bad at all hopefully, more annoying because I just keep false-starting. My other leg is finally feeling OK and then I get some random nerve impingement squatting 80kgs! That's training for you.

Quote from: acole14 on June 02, 2016, 10:51:03 pm

O shit waddup! Been slack updating again. Just crazy in the lab atm. Knee is definitely improving. For the last two weeks I have been doing the gym sessions as written and ADEs every day. The only difference being that for the 5x5 squat I've just been doing regular squats with 100kg, not box. This is to strengthen my weak adductors/inner thigh muscles, which I'm hypothesising have a role in the knee tracking issue/patella discomfort/cartilage stress on my left side. This is pretty vague but I do seem to recall over the last 6-9 months that this issue seemed to disappear when my squat was strong. For instance, I had completely forgotten about it over Easter when I had built my deep squat back up again. Could be completely off-base but...it could be just stress on my medial patella from overactive TFLs on the lateral side and weak adductors on the medial side. Maybe the way I squat helps balance it out.

I haven't started track work or had another jumps session yet. I have been meaning to get to the track but it's just a bit trickier than going to the gym as I only have time at lunch and just have had no chance in the last two weeks. But it's clearing up now so I'll try and get down there to see what I can do.

nice! glad to hear the knee is progressing man.

when you do start back track work or jumps, progress back into it sloooow.. don't rush into any plyo/bounding/etc. sounds like you're on the right track.

also it does make some sense about the free squat theory..

pc

Thanks mate! Yeah it will definitely be gradual, not to mention it's winter here now so the track is perpetually wet and slippery.