THat last workout (week?) was hard to recover from. I skipped training yesterday (!!) and i'm still pretty beat up today but will force a workout. Also ate a lot of food and slept a lot .. but to no avail .. broad jumps are hard on the body huh. Using the TENS unit on my calves and hips may have made them worse .. lol.. interesting..
Anything new seems especially hard on the body. For the noninitiated bounding will be really hard on tibials and all of lower leg... For me a squat day will leave me w days of soreness but bounding is hardly noticeable if volume is moderate. It's part of a warmup. You will adapt. Your not going high or far on your broad jumps and will quickly adapt. The single leg bounds are where you always need to be aware of volume constraints to recover. You will get there though.
^^^ I think it's better to withhold judgement on your bounds without better quality video. But I am 95% sure I see something off that is fixable and will help you a lot.
As far as dunking, I never appreciated how complicated it was until I met actual dunkers... Maybe a KF style dunker doesn't have problems because he truly dunks two handed... But for the rest of us I think it really matters even with two hands. Here's an example - I can dunk from the left baseline with one hand or two hands in games. Driving from the right baseline I cannnot come close in practice. I can however go past the hoop and do a "semi" 360. That's because I plant LR and am right handed. Now that i dunk left handed I can do this dunk so easily and fast. There are lots of ways you get around this. One is to have your final foot plant behind your first foot, another is to do dunks where it's sensible for your last foot to plant away from the rim (say left baseline back turned opponent taking away baseline - spin and land left right going toward the free throw line and dunk. But these situations are rare. Usually, taking that final step away from the goal will make you look slow in games. It's why russell westbrook looks sooooo fast... He plants his right foot then his left taking large strides toward the goal and past the opponent and then rises up and dunks. For most of his dunks if I was in the same situation I would need another step with the right foot that didn't serve a role as far as helping me get by my man... (although now that I use left hand this isn't true).
This is the truth in most sports that involve skill/athleticism. I'm not claiming that russell westbrook isn't fast. But his otherwordly speed is a combination of his objective speed and his skill (movement style) that allows him to look like this. Are you as objectively fast? Probably not. But you look stupid slow compared to him and objectively you are not that much slower but you don't set your dunk up as effectively because you waste movement getting steps right... Fixing this AND becoming a better athlete with bounding and strength and band work need to happen in tandem for you to make a splash at next years tournament but no amount of just straight athletic improvement will make enough difference... Just watch Usain bolt in celebrity games when he dunks and tip toes his steps to do so... He looks slow. Because he doesn't know how to make dunking happen efficiently. But he is the fastest man on the planet... Clearly upping his power and speed isn't an option.
*** just want to add to my comment about why I can dunk from left baseline with two hands and not right... It is also because most of us DL jumpers use our blocking leg with some degree of hip torsion to allow us to get out glutes and quads involved in the blocking... It's slight but does effect our trajectory... So if I plant LR on left baseline this sends me turning slightly toward the center of the rim where I can put it down with two hands... On the right baseline this sends me into the backboard and I have to bring the ball up and avoid this which is impossible... Of course if you can jump as high as Kobe you can jump put the ball in your right hand, twist in the air and dunk the ball... But he is basically doing a complicated aerial move just to do a regular 1 handed dunk...
****** Also, I want to add that while the left handed dunking has really helped me - I am not super ambidextrous. Maybe more than you but certainly not totally. I can palm it with my left slightly but nothing like I can with the right... Control is an issue for me too but in my case the positive outweighs the negative. Certainly it would be better if I just planted right left but I can't seem to erase years and years of a movement pattern... My coordination is ok for some dunks but I'm sure I would have trouble if I tried an advanced dunk like BTL with the left hand and then I would have to either do like Jonathan Clark (do BTL off 1 foot or under the hoop with a 180/360 with my right hand) OR try to learn a RL plant so I could do it straight on with my dominant hand... Im hoping I can get windmills down with my left hand but that's pushing the limits of am ambidextrousness so it will take practice..
******* Finally if you want to see some extreme examples at the pro level check out john wall and jr smith. Both are right handed and jump off the right foot... This is a hindrance to JR smith who throws down some great two handed dunks but can't dunk as consistently as he should be able to while John Wall just adapted and dunks exclusively with his left hand... I personally think thats the way to go.
I'm gonna give you some advice that I haven't been able to follow myself... By a grippy super inflated ball and learn the self lob! I can't push this too hard on you because I've practiced it for probably about 50 tries and cannot figure it out for the life of me.... But it's gotta be something learnable!
From talking to dunkers that can do it they tell me that it's actually much much easier to catch a self lob off the bounce near the rim than to catch an alley oop because if you do it perfectly you actually catching a floating object rather than one that is traveling in the air...
Also I know you told me your goal was dunking in any way shape or form including alley oops but I think it would be more impressive if someone asks if you can dunk and you pull up proof of yourself throwing a self lob and throwing it down than catching an oop... To the layman a self lob is truly dunking by yourself!
Maybe you could begin my just finishing your sessions with 30-50 self lobs where you just do the toss but don't even jump... Just practicing the toss to get to where you can consistently get the ball to bounce up near the rim at the perfect height won't tire out your legs at all and will get you to at least the first step towards dunking from a self toss...
It's great that your more consistent with jumping ability but we all know how fickle the brain and the legs can be... Who knows when the day is when you just happen to be jumping 38" inches will be... It would such a shame that on that day you happen to not have anyone around who can toss you lobs! A decent self lob in your back pocket might just allow you to document your dunk on that very best day rather than the best day when you happen to have a patient and good lob thrower around...
Either do this OR pay someone to come to the gym every time you jump and throw you lobs! You have reached a once in a lifetime goal (seriously bask in this, I train all kinds of athletes and you don't know how many "better" athletes than you that are also taller that tell me it's a bucket list goal to dunk but haven't achieved what you have), before you move to the Near East let's get the best of the best of this on tape. Also before jumping days cut moderately the volume and intensity of your daily routine but do not drop it!
Tangentially, Todday interesting to read about your experience with changing the dunk hand so late in the game. Ive never done a dunk with my R hand before .. but ... since i am a RL plant jumper who has never got a game time dunk .. im tempted to explore dunking with my R hand! I can't palm the ball with my R hand. But never really tried to either and today I found I could work up to it by warming up to it by trying to palm my 6kg medball, then my bigger/slippier bball before attempting a normal grippier ball. Will work on my grip and try dunking with it on friday.
Part of my brain thinks does R hand or L hand matter when you can dunk doublehand? isn't that eliminating any advantage or disadvantage gained or lost by using one hand over the other? But when i think about it, my double hand dunks are done kinda L hand dominant anyway and it's possible i can gain by doing them R hand dominant? Maybe that's worth exploring. Will report back tmr if you're interesting in reading about my experience with it.
I'll be honest I never really gave it such earnest tries until I watched LBSS jump. But to me it's a godsend. You maybe eliminate some of the help when you double hand dunk but for me not all... There are days when I'm not jumping high and I can double hand dunk (jump up and dunk it cleanly w no tomahawk) but can't cleanly dunk w one hand... Which is weird.
For me at least jumping with the left hand back makes a huge difference. I just trained on vertec and easily PRed over 40" (touched 11'2") with my left hand. Didn't even feel great. In fact using the left has me doing a much more real sideways shoulders turned plant...
One thing I've always been told is I seem to need to jump higher than others to dunk. I will be able to hit my head on the backboard while someone else of the same height as me can't but can dunk easier than me... I think using the left hand levels the playing field for me. When I jump and touch w left I feel like I'm jumping maximally high and then reaching vs having my hand inside my body and worrying about timing...
I don't get videos like this... Why perform some exercise in a strange way to make it impressive. I mean he is doing standing broad jumps. It's not an endurance exercise and they way he is performing it shouldn't cause fatigue. The standing broad jump is already measurable. Just do a standing broad jump. It's like listing them sum of your vertical when you get 3 jumps.... Yah cool but what's your top vertical jump???
Additonlly he gets to slip forward slightly and because we measure toe heel he basically gets a one foot length advantage for two jumps which makes it less impressive. Multiple broad jumps take reactivity and require a shorter landing to facilitate it. Standing broad jump does not. 3 broad jumps are just a sneaky way to do a broad jump
first one is 10kg (16.65m) PR and 2nd one is 6kg (30.9m) PR.
Also the best broad jump i have on video (i beat this pretty good later but fuck cannon .. )
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHLvAv0tBBs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHLvAv0tBBs</a> What do you guys think.. possible improvements?
Well there is a reason I told you to drill standing jumps before multiple but wth. Ok your not looking quad dominant. But oh my god.... Do you ever have a neutral back? Vid quality isn't excellent but it looks like you somehow avoid ever getting neutral for everything you do... This can literally add a foot to your vertical if you fix it.
Spent a bit over an hour foam rolling and stretching the shit out of every leg muscle. Feels soooo good! What a dick i am, i should do this much more often.
nice!
how come that seems to always happen to us? we spend time stretching, foam rolling, etc.. feel amazing.. then we stop doing it? heh!@!
Lol smr is like that girl we neglect... Then we really need it and it comes through and we make a note of how great it is but then forget about till we need it again... If we just take care of that stuff often we would be so better off...
Thank you T0dday and adarqui. I meant what will the different bounds variations do for me .. not the (single) broad jump specifically .. but this seems to be the answer for the broad jump, "It's much easier to use your hips in the horizontal plane than vertical... Broad jumps will allow you to get used of this and then you can translate it to jumping up."
Does this apply to the SL bounds too -- cause aren't you more upright on those than the broad jumps .. what are they achieving in particular?
And you broadjump 10m in 3 reps .. that's pretty impressive. I have to start measuring distance for checking for improvement? Is that the case for the other bounds too:
Quote
Standing Broad Jump Three Consecutive Broad Jumps Five Single Leg Left Leg Bounds Five Single Leg Right Leg Bounds Five Alternating Leg Bounds
Distance not accounting for time. Thanks again!
Totally the case. I agree with Andrew about not trying to squeeze inches out of standing broad jump, but measurability is the name of the game. That's why I give these exercises. I would honestly take a measurable trackable test over a superior one where progress is not easily measurable.
SL bounds require a ton of strength to perform reactively. Alternating bounds require negative foot speed which will make you faster. All will make you a more diverse and better athlete and jumping on a soft surface is safer and great prep work.
hm. explanation has the ring of satisfying logic but i don't see why warming up with the vest, taking it off for ME jumps, and then putting it on for other exercises that are not running jumps -- and just to move around -- would necessarily be dangerous. i do see why wearing it for some running jumps, then not, then back on again could be dangerous.
at any rate, t0ddday, any feedback on the MB throws?
I don't think what you describe is dangerous. But face it ME jumps are dangerous. That's why kingfish refuses to even do ME running jumps! Why complicate them by adding load to a body that just got used to being unweighted?
Bounds are spectacular and for training the throws are excellent... Your slow mo is great. I would change your form on throws if your goal was max distance but if your using them to train you are fine
I don't know if there is evidence or not and I don't really care. Is there empirical evidence against it? I just don't think there is only one right way to go about training and you oftentimes make it seem like your way of programing is the only right way to do so. I'm not saying french contrast or wave loading are important and beneficial training methods to do but I'm not in the position to say it's bad either because I simply haven't tried it myself over a long enough period. That's it.
There are a million ways to be successful and my way of programming is not the only way. All weight success comes from some degree of progressive overload, there isn't any evidence that any special programming technique is better than another. The only time my programming can even make a meaningful difference compared to another is when designing programming for peaking or designing something new for an athlete like work capacity or band work. If it's weight training I "like" certain protocols but realize totally that it's largely arbitrary.
However, I make an exception when it comes to dangerous training. I've seen enough athletes take off the vest and hit a PR at 40" and then decide they are feeling especially fast off the floor and should now hit a vested PR.... Vest back on awkward approach to fast for the load they are carrying and back injury. It's happened to two of our athletes... So my advice is don't do it. Could be coincidence but since I don't see any benefit to trying A few more ME jumps after unloaded jumps... I'll keep advising against it.
Bodyweight@session : 86,5kg Soreness : very sore hamstrings and glutes. Not sure if they came from maxing DL or from sprints and jumps. how about both? Injuries/aches : none
GYM REHAB SESSION
10 mins bike ( level 5 , around 70-80rmp, 5km covered ) You LEG PRESS: 20@200lbs 20@200lbs 20@200lbs 20@200lbs
-Slow tempo ( 3 seconds per rep ) , small pauses at maximum ROM, small breaks (1 min ). Good shit, felt nice.
Let the quads rest (you shouldn't feel them sprinting anyhow) and settle into a routine where you can really be fit enough to relearn your movement patterns. Hey at least you have quads. I com honestly say that despite maxing a 400lb front squat I have never in my life experienced quad soreness. Can't even imagine soreness there.
Get a new routine where you go 2-3x a week and do a workout like 477 for squats once per week and working up to a heavy double at least once a week. Incorporate some bands and fly
I noticed you dunk left handed. Wow. I just learned this and it's like a cheat code for my left right plant. I get all my dunks in my league games curling around a driving player so I can approach the rim with ahold circle and plant and rise up strong over people. Can't do it consistently baseline or on the break if there is a defender in sight unless I use one footed takeoff...
Sorry I mean this used to be a problem until I learned to dunk left handed. I swear I can jump 4 inches lower and still dunk now... I can also take off from tons more places on the court... Left handed is so much easier is crazy.
That's whats up, vert gainz are weird, seems like you're stuck at a certain point for a long time and then out of nowhere you wake up with springs for legs.
lol yup. the biggest surprise for me recently has been the consistency of being able to hit 35-36+. i first jumped 36 like two years ago, but then didn't do it again for another year. now all of a sudden i can hit that level multiple times per week, and multiple times per workout. good change.
Daily routine?
The bounds look good. The throws are snappy and super hip driven. For distance maximizing I'd like to see your feet stay on the ground a bit longer but the hip activation your getting as a training tool is great.
^this sounds like what you are describing? In an article the author defines movement efficient as being able to do 20 reps in 10s. Sound reasonable?
I don't think that's what he is describing. Getting better at that drill will make you really good at just clearing the object which is not a good thing.
As far as the broad jump, I disagree slightly with Andrew about its utility. For combines the force you to stick the landing which results in you landing in a really deep squat. This is not useful and you shouldn't practice it. Step out of it or hop out of it. The real bang for your buck is the measurability of the multi-broad jump. You NEED to be able to travel at least 11 yards in three jumps. These won't involve deep landings and this will only be possible if you have reactive hips. However, your getting ahead of your self again, you need to learn to broad jump first and travel about 3 yards.
The broad jump itself is helpful because "slow" athletes don't know how to use their hips and gluteus. It's why you travel in the weird diagonal up on your dunks, no hip pop at extension. Learning how to use your hips to jump vertically is hard. So we start you going forward. It's much easier to use your hips in the horizontal plane than vertical... Broad jumps will allow you to get used of this and then you can translate it to jumping up. Don't worry about what the standing broad jump will do for your athleticism, your thinking too far ahead... Learn the skill. Become proficient. Then use it as a base to do exercises that will make you a much better athlete like jump, jump, dunk and many multi jump variations.
This athlete complains of being "slow" even though he is an accomplished 400m (47.x pr) runner. He lacks the hip elasticity and reactivity necessary for movement efficiency to make his broad jumps get longer with momentum. You can watch closely and see he goes 3 yards, 3 yards, 3 yards for approximately 9 yards total.
You will notice I go just over 3, 3.5 and over 4 yard to reach 11 yards. This isn't terribly impressive of a performance but the movement efficiency is there. My hips stay high, short ground contacts and ever increasing distance from hip reactivity. Which athlete looks faster? Really ill take the athlete w a 3 yard broad jump and a 12 yard 3x jump over the athlete who can go 3.5 standing and 11 w three jumps. If you can go 11 or 12 yards in three jumps you won't be "slow" on the court. Only way to do this is to jump pretty high. But first LeARN BASICS.
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