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Messages - LanceSTS

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301
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 20, 2012, 03:41:33 pm »
Quote from: entropy on August 20, 2012, 12:19:03 pm
Here's my argument for (F)SQ over BS

Have only been doing SQ for a short time but already

1. SQ is quickly catching up to BS, last wk I did 105x3 on SQ vs 110x2 on BS - very little to differentiate them
2. SQ form is better than BS form
3. progress in BS comes at the cost of form - squatmornings happen because legs are weak and back is much stronger, lighter backsquats do nothing for legs, and heavier backsquats are too much for legs and eaten up greedily for breakfast by much stronger back
4. SQ is remedial for squatmorning BS pattern - it fixes that and it teaches uprightness which will carry over to BS, in fact already has to some degree

fwiw, youre not nearly the only one thats come to this conclusion.  As long as youre keeping balance in your legs with the hams and quads, go for it. 

302
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 20, 2012, 02:25:24 pm »
Quote from: T0ddday on August 20, 2012, 12:41:34 pm
Quote from: LanceSTS on August 19, 2012, 10:47:34 pm

If you can standing press 225, you can bench 315 without even trying... and yea, I would rather have someone with a huge push press than a big bench.  What was wrong is the notion that a 315 bench is common among basketball players, thats not true at all.

Agreed.  Might take a few weeks of training to realize the strength though...  I had a max bench of 275 and didn't bench for about a year and instead just did power snatches, push jerks, and standing DB push presses...  I went back to benching and hit 295x3 after three weeks.

Question, what do you think of standing DB push presses?  Previously shoulder injuries make barbell push presses difficult, I can do heavy jerks and presses but have trouble doing multiple reps with significant weight because the negative is painful.  Dropping the bar is fine but requires it be cleaned to shoulder level again...  Do you think standing DB push presses with moderate weight and repetitions is sufficient if paired with some heavy singles in push jerk or push press?

Yea that would work fine, the only problem with it would be the uncomfortable loading of the dumbells.  having to swing up a couple of 100 lb dumbells gets old after while.  If the straight bar aggravates your shoulders though I think dumbells are a good idea.

303
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 20, 2012, 09:02:50 am »
Quote from: entropy on August 20, 2012, 05:31:22 am
prob obvious to you lance but when you look at the right pic, if that guy kept going deeper, his back wud get more vertical (this is prob true for any squat regardless of bar placement?) as well as his knees more forward. of course that might not possible with low bar with hips way back. I only just made that connection recently. Am thinking when I switch to highbar, i'll work on mobility so my squats are deep and upright.

  He could, if he relaxed his hamstrings, however thats against what Rippetoe preaches apparently.  The worst part imo of all that is driving your hips up vs driving YOU up.  What happens most of the time, in that picture if he were to go lower, he would simply get more leaned over, and keep the same or very similar knee angle.

 Looking at your front squat, I dont think mobility will be your issue, I think motor learning and getting stronger around the knee will have to take place to really make you comfortable with it. You can squat pretty upright with a low bar position too, and this is not a bad way to do it, you have to groove the squat differently though than your typical low bar, and drive your chest and shoulders, not your hips.

304
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 20, 2012, 04:42:43 am »
Quote from: entropy on August 20, 2012, 04:26:26 am
Quote from: LanceSTS on August 19, 2012, 01:37:17 pm
or simply having not placed a priority on staying upright long enough for it to become habit yet, and having learned "drive your hips up" vs staying tall and driving the body up as a unit, chest and shoulders up first,  in the way you do in any athletic movement in history.  

The other day you gave me the tip to have the weight back on my heels when starting a squat, which was a great tip because im realising i wasn't even upright and actually leaning fwd at the top when about to start squatting down. I guess I have to work very hard to correct these patterns cos they've become ingrained. What I'd give to start from scratch but with better squat instruction!

Yea, here is a good pic from Everett on the path, its actually further to the rear in most cases.


305
LanceSTS's Performance Blog / Nice Performance Training Center
« on: August 20, 2012, 04:19:31 am »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ9vArXpfok" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ9vArXpfok</a>


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ9vArXpfok" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ9vArXpfok</a>


306
LanceSTS's Performance Blog / Re: Yo lance
« on: August 20, 2012, 03:16:14 am »
Quote from: gutts on August 19, 2012, 11:13:27 pm
Oh I see, I'm driving it too much into my chest and I should drive it upwards near the traps.. yeah? (sorry for the slowness)

Driving it into the chest makes it easier, is that why I naturally transitioned into doing that? Should I keep the same weight and I'll naturally be using more of my legs?

Thx.

NO.  I am referring to where your PLATFORM TO PRESS OFF OF IS, not where you lower the bar... your CONNECTION to the bench.  If you were standing straight up, and pressing a weight over your head, your CONNECTION is to the FLOOR, with your FEET.

 Regardless of where you lower the load to.  With the bench press, you want a solid CONNECTION of your TRAPS and SHOULDERS, to the actual bench...  You still lower the weight to the same point, the difference is you need to push back harder with your legs, driving your traps and shoulders into the bench, to give you a more solid platform to press from. 

There should be little to no weight on your ass.  Think push press every time the weight touches your chest.

307
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 20, 2012, 03:10:06 am »
Quote from: D4 on August 20, 2012, 03:04:09 am
This might be a stupid question, but I'm curious.  You know how shoulder power contributes to vertical jump height and to work on it people do arm swings like when Adarqui used to do his plate swings which basically mimics the same swing motion in jumps. 

Push presses aren't the same motion as plate swings, but does improving push press help with the same effect that improving plate swings will have specifically on VJ's?

Think of it from the muscles being trained instead of the exact movement.  Also, watch how people jump with the ball, which is what you will have to do in an actual game, assuming youre not catching lobs on a regular basis.  Lay up, jump shot, dunk with the ball in hand, watch that movement.

308
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 19, 2012, 10:47:34 pm »
Quote from: Kingfish on August 19, 2012, 10:41:09 pm
my push press to press gap is too much its just embarrassing. thats why i prefer to build shoulders more. and i stand with my dislike for the bench.. id rather press 225s than bench 315s.  but thats just me.

If you can standing press 225, you can bench 315 without even trying... and yea, I would rather have someone with a huge push press than a big bench.  What was wrong is the notion that a 315 bench is common among basketball players, thats not true at all.

309
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 19, 2012, 10:33:24 pm »
Quote from: Kingfish on August 19, 2012, 10:21:53 pm
^ i've been wrong before..  :P

Well if you had said, for building the shoulders the press will be a bitter option, you would have a strong case.  The thing with the push press is that it involves leg drive in a very similar manner to most athletic movement, and allows more weight, while having to also stabilize the body during that dynamic movement against the ground.

 The shoulders are put at a better leverage point from the leg drive, and you still get all the external rotation at the top.  Pretty hard to beat for an athlete. 

For physique enhancement, not really necessary.

310
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 19, 2012, 10:05:11 pm »
Quote from: Kingfish on August 19, 2012, 07:36:01 pm
if you want to save your shoulder/wrist joints the beating, do standing overhead DB press instead. get to 80lb+ and be boss.

basketball players who benches 3 plates is nothing special.. you standing press at least 185+..you'd be a lot stronger for the sport.

 



horseshit. Standing press is a good lift but pales in comparison to the dynamic correspondence to sports that the push press gives.

 You also dont have a good frame of reference to make the last statement, a 315 bench press is pretty rare even in high level basketball.


and, one of the good thing about the push press is you still get the external rotation at the top of the lift for the shoulders, without the stress from the very bottom, where most issues occur, due to the drive from the LEGS.  So its actually safer for the shoulders, done correctly.

311
LanceSTS's Performance Blog / Re: Yo lance
« on: August 19, 2012, 07:13:34 pm »
Quote from: gutts on August 19, 2012, 06:25:03 pm
Thanks breh. Up next on Tuesday I'll try to get my hang clean / squat / push press videos.

Soo - use more upper body and not let hips do any work? Thought you said it was a full body motion? Can you maybe link to a video where someone does it more properly?

What do you think about my depth on bench? Some guy said not to go down so much to chest cuz I have long arms, but you said go all the way down when I started, so that's what I keep doing.

I did sit on my hands before that, my ass cheeks on each hand.. for like 1 min 30 mins but lost patience to keep sitting.. oh well.

When you drive your weight into your traps, youre using your legs hard.  thats what I mean with full body. 

The guy at your gym is a fucking moron that said that.

film it next time you sit on your hands.

312
LanceSTS's Performance Blog / Re: Yo lance
« on: August 19, 2012, 06:01:22 pm »

  The bench looks real good.  Drive your weight up into your traps on the bench a littler harder, your hips should have little to no weight on them.

  Yes you can go faster on the hammer curls, however if you did not sit on your hands until they went to sleep (this was not shown in the video), they will not be nearly as effective.


 You look like you got a lot more muscular, good work.

313
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 19, 2012, 05:25:57 pm »
Quote from: D4 on August 19, 2012, 05:22:38 pm
What would you say is a good number for push pressing?  For example, 2xBW for squats is a good milestone, 1.5xBW for bench is considered really good, what about push press? My goal at a 152-155lb BW is to do 135 for 3 reps.  Would that be considered adequate?

 Push pressing your bodyweight for a few reps is a good goal to start with. When you can do that you will tend to not have problems being stronger than the majority of players you compete against.

314
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 19, 2012, 05:21:18 pm »
Quote from: Raptor on August 19, 2012, 05:05:59 pm
I remember someone who said "people of the past had much more interest in the standing overhead press vs. pushing something from the chest while laying horizontal on a bench".


there were much less shoulder injuries back then as well, due to the balanced nature of prioritizing the OHP and using the bench press more sparingly.

315
ADARQ & LanceSTS - Q&A / Re: Push Press and Basketball
« on: August 19, 2012, 05:19:39 pm »
Quote from: D4 on August 19, 2012, 04:59:40 pm
Lance, I remember in another thread pretty long time ago, you mentioned that push press destroys bench press in terms of carryover to basketball.

Not disputing this, I'm just curious as to why and how?  Strictly for knowledge sake since I'm a basketball player.

When you block a shot, shoot a jump shot, go up for a rebound, fight for the ball, are using the muscles used in a movement more similar to a lower and upper body explosive movement, or are you using a prop to brace your upper torso against, and no leg drive? 

The bench press is a good lift and has it use, but the push press destroys it in carryover to athletic movements.  Ive never seen someone push press a lot of weight who wasnt also strong at bench press.  Lots of good bench pressers dont have the core stability, lower body explosiveness, and timing to push press two wet socks.

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