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I think the reason most prefer to back squat is because it is, in general terms, the "better" strength exercise.

I know a lot of coaches who don't agree with this statement.

I have never heard or read of discomfort being the problem

This might be your problem right here Steven. A lot of coaches I have spoken to about the front squat will say the same thing - discomfort in the way the bar sits is a common thing. It isn't necessarily all about the wrists either. Most of the discomfort is in the load on the shoulders as it gets heavier.

Seriously I can't believe you have not ever heard of people finding front squats uncomfortable - and it has nothing to do with doing the exercise incorrectly.  Even back squats can be uncomfortable when people start doing them. It is almost like you are being intentionally naive here.

Are only competitive weightlifters required to perform an exercise correctly?

No but when the main goal of the lift which is to overload the legs is easier to learn and perform and load because you aren't being held back by having to painfully bear the load on your shoulders, well spending time getting used to something that you don't need to would be wasting peoples time.

Seriously Steven, it isn't that difficult to understand. The goal is to overload the quads, core etc. The front squat is a unique exercise in how it does that. There are two ways to do things

The hard way - spend a few weeks trying to get used to how a weight feels on your shoulders using lighter loads because "that is the way we always did it"

The easy way - achieve the exact same thing in about 2 minutes, with the added advantage of being able to use heavier loads by using a simple but effective front squat harness.

If your definition of "perform an exercise correctly" means without the use of any training aids, then yes, using your definition, pretty much just competitive weightlifters are the only ones "required" to perform the exercise "correctly".

You can still perform the lift correctly without having to be annoyed by the pain of the bar with a heavy weight on the shoulders. And look, obviously there are plenty of non-competitive weightlifters who have indeed got used to the pain and are front squatting some big loads without any sort of help. Good for them.

I would suggest that there are a LOT more non-competitive weightlifters who are missing out on the benefits of front squatting because they haven't been able to get used to it.

Your harness does not save time in the learning curve btw., it just lets you get away with shitty control of the exercise.

Riiiiiiight. And this observation is based on what exactly?

Especially in your case doing the front squat without the harness might prove to be a useful learning tool in improving your skills of assessing technical errors in an exercise and finding ways to correct them. The harness does not help with understanding of execution unfortunately.

Actually this is wrong too. By eliminating the most common issue, i.e. how uncomfortable the bar feels sitting on the shoulders, it actually allows you to focus more on the key aspects of the lift such as torso and neck position, heels on the ground etc.

Hi Guys

I just thought I would start a new topic discussing Jim Wendlers 531 program. My training goal this year to try and get my 5RM safety bar box squat up to 180kg while maintaining my bodyweight of about 77-78kg.

I am only using it for the squat purposes so I don't do the bench press, deadlift etc days, and as mentioned in my front squat harness thread, it isn't specifically for vertical jump - more on that shortly.  

It is advertised as the simplest strength program ever or something like that and I tend to agree. The actual workouts themselves involve a simple setup to follow and for me once a week I follow the 531 workout using the safety bar box squat as my exercise of choice. Then I do some assistance exercises (usually GHR and split squats) and  then i am done. If time is allows or is lacking I can add or reduce the assistance work as required because the overall 531 portion is pretty quick to perform.

There is also a simple progression built into the program where you start off the first cycle by taking 10% off your 1RM and then working from there and at the end of each 4 week cycle you add 10 or 5 pounds (I can't remember the specifics exactly, I think it as 10 pounds for lower body, and 5 pounds for upper body, I could be wrong).

Anyway I have been using the 531 model for about 20 weeks (5 cycles) and have improved my squat from 147.5kg for 1 rep up to 152.5kg for 10 reps last weekend. I am not sure what my current 1RM is because I haven't tested it since the beginning. You only re-test it when your gains stall out at which point you then go back to the start (i.e. removing 10% off the new 1Rm and working form that figure).

Anyway, I have attached a 6 cycle spreadsheet you can use for any 2 main exercises. In the spreadsheet I have used the TB deadlift off a box and the safety bar box squat. My estimated 1RM's at the beginning where 160 and 150 respectively (I rounded up on the squat).

If you want to use the spreadsheet you just change the name of the exercises (in the blue cells) to whatever exercise you want to do, and then enter your 1RM's in the yellow cells and it will populate the cycles with the loads to use for the 6 cycles. Weights are in kg.

As you can see from file I have also used split squat and GHR as my assistance exercises but feel free to use whatever you want.

Also earlier I stated that I wasn't using this for vertical jump reasons. You could however easily add some more of a vertical jump flavor by simply adding in a day or two of jumping drills, or as I often like to do, adding in some simple jumping drills as part of the assistance exercises. On a strength day I like to finish with a few sets of seated jumps or hurdle jumps.

Jack

Hi Steven

I understand where you are coming from and for a long time I thought I wasn't doing it right so I went and had coaching from some of the coaches at the Victorian Weightlifting Centre (our state weightlifting training facility). According to those guys I seemed to be doing everything pretty much ok and it has always felt fine using lighter loads but as the loads got heavier it never felt entirely comfortable across the wrists and shoulder blades. I have been doing the lift on and off for a few years know and the awkwardness of it just kept putting me off using it as regularly as I would have liked. So I bought the Front Squat harness. And I love it! 

very good idea and than k  you much for sharing!  I noticed you also have realized the superiority of Wendlers 5/3/1 program to other popular vertical jump program and are doing his program now, that is great!  I do it too haha!  

thank you for sharing this device even tho i personally prefer avishek drops i will try and see if i can get me one in the near future.

Hi JDub

I don't specifically train my vertical these days, any increase in vertical jump I am getting from my strength work is a nice bonus, but not something I am too worried about. I am using the Wendler 531 routine because my goal for 2011 is to get my squat up. I am a fan of the 531 set up though as it simple to follow, seems to work pretty well, and, damn, if you want to get your squat up, then Jim Wendler is as good a guy to take advice from as any.

Hi Guys

Just a random sort of topic they I thought I would share with you. I have always had a love hate relationship with doing front squats because as much as I love the challenge and the way it loads the legs, they have felt uncomfortable to hold the bar when the loads get heavier. I have tried a number of things to rectify this including the sting ray device, and all manner of different grips trying to find a good one with only marginal success.

Anyway, I recently bit the bullet and bought a Getstrength Front Squat Harness. $200 very well spent if you ask me (especially as I can claim it as a tax deduction).

http://www.getstrength.com/Front-Squat-Harness-s/GS-Front-Squat-Harness-Pro-Med-Large/flypage.tpl.html

Anyway, since buying the front squat harness I have gotten a bit addicted to the exercise. My actual training goal for this year is to safety bar box squat 180kg (including 32.5kg of chains each side i.e. 65kg of chains total, so obviously not a full 180kg at the bottom) for 5 reps. I have been following the fairly straight forward 531 Wendler program squatting once a week on Saturday (my best day to train) and making steady progress (squat is up from 147.5kg for 1 rep to a recent 152.5kg for 10 reps, even my vertical has gone up a few inches despite doing little jumping).

I have now added in another day of front squatting using the front squat harness on Wednesday with some medium load trap bar deadlifting singles tacked onto the end. It is too early to tell what difference it will make to my safety bar box squatting on Saturday but I will keep you posted.

Anyway, I know you all love a bit of front squatting for vertical jump purposes (I know I do anyway) so just thought I would give some feedback about the Getstrength device. Sorry if it sound like a sales pitch, but the device is proving very popular with myself and the guys I train. It makes a very good exercise much more comfortable to perform.

JW

I was recently wandering around a supplement store and was blown away by the huge amount of pre-workout options available. I started talking to the guy who runs the shop (a competitive bodybuilder) and he said nearly every second purchase these days are pre-workout supplements.

From a bodybuilding perspective he thought it was funny that all these skinny guys were coming in and buying pre-workout supps but then failing to eat anywhere near enough food to see any real gains. There is, in his mind anyway, a prevailing mindset that if you just train HARDER you will see more gains.

It would appear that some things never change. The hardest part about gaining a lot of muscle is the eating. Unlike a workout that pretty much takes an hour 4x per week, food intake is a constant test of discipline (whether you are trying to gain muscle or lose weight).

I am not anti pre-workout supps either though. My training goal this year is to get my safety bar box squat up to 180kg for 5 reps. I do other things in my training but come Saturday Squat day I am happy to take a pre-workout supplement to boost my concentration and intensity, but even then I only take it if I am not already feeling pretty pumped about the workout. This amounts to a serving once every three weeks or so.

The fact is, I have days when I train really hard and get great workouts without supplementation, and then there are some days when i do take a supplement and my workouts still aren't that great. I definitely think they do what they say they do but as always, if you haven't got the essentials of good diet, plenty of sleep and recovery, and your training program having an appropriate volume of load and intensity, then no matter what your goal is, a supplement isn't going to make that much of a difference.

For the record I like USP Labs (I think) Jacked as my pre-workout booster of choice. It has a really, really, really cool name   And it seems to work well and not taste like sh#t.

I have a small tub that has probably lasted me 6 months and at my current rate of consumption will probably go off before I finish it.

Jack

Brandon Todd still has a video testimonial on the Jump Manual site he gave to Jacob. I haven't seen the Flight Right program but it does strike me as odd. Either he is cashing in, or he lied on his Jump Manual testimonial.