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Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 12:39:39 pm

He's not lying or trying to mislead anyone.  I'm saying he's mis-informed.  Some guy who don't know anything possibly once told him the importance of your abs.

He's mis-informed?.

Wait a minute. I just said he was one of the best dunkers in the world.

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 12:39:39 pm

A lot of them dunk through height.  Even if they can dunk, or even if they are athletic as hell, why not enhance that even more?  Why not go from a 34" to a 38" and become stronger and quicker in the process which will lead to improvements in every aspect of your game?

If they can already dunk maybe they feel they don't need to enhance that ability any further. Why do that when they can be out doing better things & enjoying themselves?. They will get stronger, the question, just how strong do you need to be?. Squatting for upperbody?. They will get faster (to an extent/it's not the be all end all believe you me), the question, just how fast do you need to be?.

If he believes abs are the end all be all for jumping high, yes he is mis-informed as you will agree with as well.  I know all you said was he was one of the best dunkers in the world.  I never disputed anything you said, except that you assumed I thought he was lying to us about his ab claims.  I was just clarifying my point.

How fast do you need to be?  How strong do you need to be?  When going up against the best basketball players in the world, the stronger the better.  The faster the better.  I just feel like a training mentality used on this site can be adopted by the NBA trainers.  

And the main back up I used was, Brandon Jennings.  Instead of boxing and learning martial arts, wouldn't time in the weight room be a better way to achieve his goals of becoming stronger?  He would be in the weight room if the trainers at the NBA professional level knew what they are doing.  Maybe they do know what they are doing?  That is what I'm partially asking.

MY MAIN POINT IS, elite athletes like NBA players and AUT, accept what is usually given to them, and believe they can express their elite athleticism because of what they did, when usually, it's their genes.  This is not their fault.  Their job is to ball and dunk.  It is the trainer's faults.  I believe these trainers can enhance the NBA player, or todays TFB/AUT dunkers even further, but they don't.

My question is: why not?  Are these trainers no different than your typical 24 hour fitness trainers?

And Sick, lol no offense but you seem to not be understanding any point I'm trying to make.  So if you're an NBA player making millions of dollars and your job is to be the best player you can be, just because you can already dunk, you shouldn't spend a couple hours a day enhancing yourself to be a better player because you can be out "enjoying yourself"?  That wasn't even the point I was trying to make neither. 

Air Up There is one of the best dunkers on the planet.

Why the hate?.

No hate at all.  I love his dunks.  I'm possibly hating on the athletic trainers in the NBA.  I used AUT as an example that these superior athletes are usually born with great genes and can jump so high without proper training, but they would rather think that they WORKED to get those hops.  AUT seems to think he got his amazing hops from doing crunches or something.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not discrediting AUT or NBA players hard work ethics.  They worked hard as hell to get to where they are now.  It's just in the athleticism department, where I feel like it was great genetics, not their training.  

My main rant was aimed at NBA trainers.  If they knew what they were doing, shouldn't their clients like Brandon Jennings be in the weight room, and not in a boxing ring?  And wouldn't we see players squatting, not leg pressing?

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 25, 2011, 11:27:41 am

BTW guys, I'm the OP and it seems like I just needed some straight up glute exercises to reactivate them or something?

I did BSS on Saturday which got my glutes sore.  All of a sudden I started feeling it in my glutes during my dead lifts today, AND a LITTLE bit on my squats lol.  Like 4 of the 20 total reps I felt it.  I'll keep BSS as a supplementary exercise to keep my glutes active.

Thank you sir.

I'd personally go even further and make the BSS as the MAIN lift in one of my days. I just love it too much right now.

I don't love it THAT much

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 23, 2011, 01:46:51 pm

I'm finally starting to realize how great single leg bounding really is lol.  It does a tremendous job training your body for force absorption, eccentric overload, eccentric/reactive strength, RFD, and even pure strength.  I would say for a single leg jumper, single leg bounding is the #1 best plyometric exercise there is.  

yep.

Quote

A single leg jumper can have a complete training routine with just 3 exercises in squat, bound, practice jump/dunk lol.

For most the guys starting out trying to improve their single leg vertical jump that is a very good combination provided you added in a hip dominant glute and ham exercise, and a calf exercise.

Not necessarily true for everyone though.  The best exercise for improving anything is the exercise that best improves what is holding the athlete back though.  For some this could mean a bent leg 1 leg hyper, for others it could be a type of calf raise.  Squats are good if done correctly for strengthening the entire muscular chain, but at higher levels of sport more specialization becomes more important to see continued improvements.

If you're going deep enough on squats so that your hamstrings and glutes are being worked, wouldn't that be good enough to not include a ham/glute exercise?  Or would the quads strength go up faster than the hams/glutes and eventually have an imbalance?

I'm finally starting to realize how great single leg bounding really is lol.  It does a tremendous job training your body for force absorption, eccentric overload, eccentric/reactive strength, RFD, and even pure strength.  I would say for a single leg jumper, single leg bounding is the #1 best plyometric exercise there is.  

A single leg jumper can have a complete training routine with just 3 exercises in squat, bound, practice jump/dunk lol.

thanks for schooling me, i sincerely appreciate it. i had no clue it was a beginner's improvement which i had experienced. since im just starting up again i'm gonna make sure my weight training includes more focused routines like explosive squats and what not. if i had the cash for another recommended jump program i'd use it. all i got is air alert and weightlifting for now.
by the way, i've seen ALL your youtube vids, very inspiring. thnx
one

You don't need to spend money on a jump program bro.  There can not be 1 specific broad program that is sold to the public that works, because everyone has different needs.  Air Alert fuckin sucks anyways.  Throw that shit away.  Weight train/do a lot of jumping/after some good strength gains do some plyo's/ Stay in good shape. End.

Quote from: steven-miller on July 22, 2011, 09:32:06 am

Quote from: Raptor on July 22, 2011, 09:27:27 am

I don't know. It just makes sense for me. By the same token, why does closing your eyes demand a more proprioceptive signal from you when moving around?

Well, for me it does not. When you make a point like that it would be good if you had arguments in favor of it, don't you agree?

Also, I don't understand your question. What is a "more proprioceptive signal"? And what does that have to do with our discussion?

I meant "stronger" proprioceptive signal. When you take away one orientation sense (eyesight) the body needs to boost it's proprioceptive ability to determine the position on your limbs/to maintain equillibrium etc.

Try this: stand on one leg and like in a one-leg deadlift touch the floor. Do the same thing with your eyes closed. Which was harder? Or try to balance on a medball or basketball with your eyes open vs. your eyes closed.

I don't understand how this relates to negative coordination when having excess body fat.  Could you explain?

I can agree with Steven Miller and most other people saying that adding some mass will be beneficial to jumping, but what I failed to mention was, what about for a single leg jumper?  

Idk, I've always read that, single leg jumping has a lot more to do with leverage, lower body weight, etc... While double leg jumping has a lot more to do with strength meaning added muscle mass (+strength) can only help.

I mean besides Lebron James, cause he's a freak of nature, most great single leg jumpers I've seen were very light/lean/skinny.  My friend on my intramural bball team who dunks on opponents on the regular is 6'0" 159lbs, and he has a 42"+ vertical.  Kadour Ziani, prolly the best single leg dunker ever, is very skinny.  


ALSO, are you guys saying that carrying excess body fat (10%+) has a structural disadvantage as well?  Like the fat effects your movement efficiency, COM, leverage and such?