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How we train through injuries or forced layoffs is really what separates the men from the boys.  It's also what separates the pros from the amateurs...

I have to warn you this that is 100% do as I say not what I do advice... But that doesn't make it any less valid...   Not since college did I really have the athletic team of trainers and coaches around me to be productive while injured... That environment is probably more valuable during Injury than any other time...

In a collegiate or professional environment when you are hurt you still have to show up for practice, your still there, still in the zone, getting a taste of it and itching to get back and being reminded of it.  Your still going to conditioning only now you get to focus on your weaknesses and come back better...

In every other environment I have been in my injuries are made 10x worse than they need to be... Injuries mean no training... So no reason to get up early... So no reason not to go out w friends... No reason not to go to Vegas... No reason not to eat like shit because your not in a training mindset so what's the point of eating well... So you come back with the trifecta of bad change - heavier, weaker and less mobile.... And the cycle repeats and few times and then your old and retired...

After my last catastrophic injury I promised I wouldn't be like this... Haven't really been challenged but I did an ok job dealing w my jumpers knee and training myself through it...

Really if you can master this you have the key to longevity in sport... What every great masters athlete has is a commitment to sport away from sport... Gotta take 3 months off of training cause your wife had a kid and you literally have no time... Ok but then during those 3 months eat less than you do in training because tdee is lowered... 99% of us will eat more in that situation...

It's hard as hell but you can do it... I don't know the nature of your injury and I'm not an orthopedist but for most cartilage injury you can train through it with the following modifications:

1) first thing that is out is all track on track surfaces - however hill running can be resumed soon.
2) high intensity bounding is out but you might be able to do stuff legged ankling. 
3) jumping is out for a bit but if you buy a crash mat you can quickly return to vertical jumping.

Almost the rest of your training can continue.  The AED stuff can become truly ED.  You can master mobility and strength.  You can turn this into a blessing if you want. It won't be as fun but it's totally possible.  Can't say I will blame u if you don't but you can decide how u want to let this effect you.

What's ~30 at 97 kg vs x at 77 kg off one?

The 30" is off one leg?  One legged is hard but if you drop 44 pounds of fat you will jump really high off one leg if you can jump 30 off one leg.   

As far as the jumps.  Nothing wrong w a walking approach but it doesn't look like your approach jumps work.  That's ok.  Cut them until they do.  So do drop step jumps.  Then do two step jumps and three step jumps.   If and only if those provide more height then move to 4/5 step jumps.  I think LBSS has mentioned this method as the "toddday" rule or method of earning your steps.  It's pretty important for movement efficiency.  The only exception I have made for athletes is testing extra steps in terms of pairs for athletes who put a lot of torque in the plant. 

What that means is an athlete might drop step 35".  (Left toe raises and right foot is swung into plant)

The I might allow athlete a two-step takeoff.  So left step, right step, take off.  Athlete might only jump 35.5" or less.  Technically that might suggest that we shouldn't add steps... However a RLR takeoff might result in 38" jump.  This is because athletes (especially track/jumper background) can be really uncomfortable starting with their right foot in front of left (or vice versa) and moving their left foot first...  So for those athletes the testable steps are basically drop-step, RLR, RLRLR, etc.  same principle applies though.***

Your not much of a one footed jumper I see!  Strange given your track background.  Again I wish I had video but I think you can make a lot of gains here by fixing your mechanics.  One drill I would like you to force your self to do is what I call the euro step take off.  Run toward hoop from top of key, force your penultimate step to land outside of key on right side and your left foot take off to be from not much farther forward but back inside the key.  I really would like to film this to explain but I find it does wonders for athletes who jump like you.

***last note.  I think for now you may want to keep weight vest on and even add additional weight for your rim jumps.  Two reasons.  Easier to learn approach mechanics for some people at slower speeds.  Also, I personally don't like your target touching achievement... This is somewhat psychological so if it doesn't bother you then you can ignore me but imo what I see is: your standing vertical allows you to touch the rim.   Your drop step... You can touch the rim.  Your 3 step can touch the rim.  Sure, you can touch more of the rim or something but imo that doesn't allow as much progress.  A vertec where you are constantly removing vanes and touching a measurably higher distance works.  Touching with two vs one hand is OK but not ideal in my mind.  Adding load so the rim is very difficult or out of reach without an approach is good too.  I have trained atheltes in aerobics rooms where the ceiling is only 10'1 and the athlete is over 6'.   We begin w standing vertical and a 20lb vest, finishing w 60-75 load and a running vertical of about 25". 

Finally... Those backboard touches.  You spend way too much time on the ground and go way too deep on rebound... Like I said before don't try to change this too much consciously but do the following... Switch to a one handed touch of hopefully a slightly higher object.  Work to get x touches in 10 seconds. 

Quote from: Raptor on May 09, 2016, 03:03:51 am

You know, I was thinking about the "ball wax thing"... why should ball grip be a limitation for dunking? If you want to see how high you can get, you shouldn't be put down because you used ball wax. That shouldn't be an issue. If you jump 8 inches lower because you feel the ball is slippery, how is that "cool" in any way, why should you struggle because of that?

So I don't have a problem with guys using ball wax when dunking. I've used it in the past but it made dunking "artificially". Hard to explain, but I would get "lazy" when using ball wax. Without the ball wax, I would have a "rhythm" about my run-up that I didn't have when I used ball wax, I moved differently. Interesting.

ya i don't mind it either.. unless people 'lie about it', that's annoying.

i still think lobs are more fun anyway, so palming a ball/using wax are futile at that point.

lobs are similar to wax.. many people don't respect lobs. "but can you do that off of a dribble???" etc etc. someone will always whine about something though.. "but can you do that in a game?!?" ... "but can you shoot a jump shot?!?"

must suck to think like that.

First of all... What is ball wax?  Is it stickum?  Or something better?  I don't think stickum is that helpful...

Personally I think it all depends on why you like dunking.   For me the best dunks follow the Michael Jordan rule for dunk contests: must dribble, no lobs, no traveling. 

I can appreciate other dunks though, I just appreciate them in context.  I don't love self love where the athletes goal is dunking from as high as possible because it's just a jumping contest at that point...  I like jumping high but really dunking can be so much more multi-dimensional as a sport than just jumping ability.  Jordan Kilganon certainly can't jump as high as Daniel Kabeya but he is a much better dunker.   I can get my hair to the rim but I can't do a BTL dunk on an 8 foot hoop.  I appreciate the skills Dunkers have as much as their ability to jump. 

That said my list of dunk impressiveness goes "no travel dunks" >>>> "partner lob" > "self lob" >> traveling dunks >>>>>>> partner hold. 

I prefer partner lob slightly more than self lob because it is a more realistic part of the game but I think the self lob is a really valuable tool that I wish I had and allows you to really get good dunk practice.  Any lob is better than the Dunkers where people run the length of the court w out dribbling... Michael Jordan's ft line dunks were so cool cause he didn't travel. 

https://youtu.be/sUz3ZYfoNxo

But the worst dunk of all time is this new partner hold bs.  Where the guy holds the ball on his head, his partner boosts up on the ball to climb over his back and then dunks it.  I mean.... Cmon!  This isn't a dunk!  This is literally climbing a wall and dunking!

Once my sister went to the doctor because her period was missing in the last few months. The doctor's reply? "Oh well, good riddance! It's better not to have one".

#science #medicalStudies #helpfulDoctor #pertinentOpinion

Like Vag pointed out - you are a true contradiction...  You claim to love science and physics and be very intelligent but you base your beliefs on anecdotes and personal experience...  How does that make you different than the Trump supporters you disagree with?  Then you post it online like its the gospel truth with hashtags like reality...  I mean the only Romanian I ever learned about in school was that dictator guy who was executed with his wife - didn't let it convince me that Romanians are bloodthirsty idiots though.  Medicine has its problems - especially in this country.   But if your sick there is still nothing better than it - not alternative medicine, not complaining about how doctors suck, none of that.

Comparing a push press to a jump shot.... Smh.  Sorry to be a jerk but you really just don't understand biomechanics at all.  If a shot had anything to do w a push press it would travel so fast it's ridiculous.  You think med ball tosses are useless of course but watch the hip pop that accelerates the ball... Now watch the currys jump shot.  Notice anything in common... Neither do I because curry doesn't accelerate the ball with his hips. 

You think you should shoot like players other than Magic Johnson cause your built like them?  First of all aren't you built w female fat deposits?  Who else shares this build?  Second you think it's based on the build?  Are you serious? 

Why don't you just come off it and admit that you have come up w an idea.  You like it.  No matter what evidence disproves it you are going to stick w it.  You have made one athletic advance in all your training and it came from losing fat.  That's stage one.  You won't get to stage two because you insist on being a biomechanics expert...

I want to stress that I'm not here claiming I know more than you about anything in particular - except that I'm a better judge of you than you are.  Do you know why people don't act as their own lawyer, why they don't act as their own trainer, or why self diagnoses is a failure?   We are own worst judges.  That's the beauty of the forum.  You can avoid the pitfalls of bad ideas... Or reinforce them.  Your choice. 

Yeah idk how using more hips will help. Most top shooters have a slight lean or fade on their shot which makes involving the hips harder.

Also, probably not the best picture to illustrate the idea. Looks like he's in transition and has pulled up hence the hip angle.

You don't need to do heavy jump squats for shooting. Name 1 top shooter who has tremendous leg strength. Curry? Nash? Nowitzki? Kobe? I think you're looking in the wrong areas.

Looked over the tape of yesterdays shooting. I noticed 2 main things, 1)i shoot  the ball entirely from the wrist/arms and 2)with no hip involvement. So if i was a better shooter i'd be more hip and less wrist, this would make me a better player because 1 is affected easily by fatigue whereas 2 would not be. So i can improve my shooting considerably by .......... being ......... more....... hip ...... dominant.

OH MAN.  Ok, you should definitely not matter what you do make sure that you DO NOT work with a shooting coach.  Most shooting coaches will gladly tell you that their is some magic bullet to fix your should and cause you to do even more paralysis by analysis, get in your head even more, do some strange weight room movement that you think well carryover (seriously heavy jump squats provide specificity for shooting????) and you will end up 10x worse at shooting.   

Coges advice is spot on (except for the index finger thing) and you have ignored it completely and stuck to a claim you have no evidence for because... well because that's what you do. 

I have worked with NBA shooting coaches, former NBA players, and the honest ones will tell you the disappointing truth that shooting accuracy unfortunately doesn't come from changes in technique.  I mean just look at the great shooters of the NBA:  Reggie Miller shot the ball with two hands, Larry Bird and Manu Ginobili literally through the ball into the hoop, Steve Nash heaved the ball from his chest.  Magic Johnson had a set shot (and shot 90% from the line and 50% from the field)    There is no technique change that makes you a better shot.  What a shooting coach can teach you is the following:

1) Get a technique that is repeatable***.  Usually this is going to be one without a lot of wasted movement - but again it doesn't really matter as much as it is repeatable for you.  There are tricks to getting YOUR technique more repeatable (maybe the index finger cue works for Coges), I find that a quarter between the thumb and index finger helps players whose shot is not repeatable because sometimes there thumb is involved (giving a gyroball effect) and some sometimes it isn't.  Of course despite the fact that most coaches don't like "thumbing" it's a problem mostly because it isn't repeated - Tim Hardaway Sr. thumbed every single shot and was a great shooter at the end of his career.

2) Practice the shot a lot.  We have seen old guys with very little strength hit 100s of shots in a row by practicing OVER and OVER and OVER.  If you stick with a shot technique and practice it - you too will do this.

3) Practice shots rather than shooting around.  Get a rebounder and have him feed you balls that you catch and dribble and right left plant and then shoot.  If you run off a lot of screens and catch and shoot then practice this.  Practicing shooting a lot will make you good at shooting in practice - to make shots in games you need to actually practicing shooting off the catch/dribble (however you play). 

*** Here is the exception.  If you are a high level player and you shoot the ball in traffic you may need a shot that is not only repeatable but also one you can get off.  This might require change to technique - but it's not for accuracy - it's to get the ball off over or before the defense comes.  Again there is more than one way to solve this.  Kobe Bryant has a high release point and shoots at the top of his jump (allowing him to shoot over defenders), Steph Curry has a completely non-textbook low release (textbook wise Klay Thompson's shot is far better) BUT releases his shot so fast that the defense isn't there yet.  Curry, cannot back a player down, spin and then rise up over players with his shooting style (but this minor inability doesn't matter much because he has practically given up shooting two point shots). 

You are COMPLETELY off base with the hips argument, think of the actual muscles involved in the shot and how different people accomplish it..

1) Look at women shoot.  Completely different shot than most men.  The hips and legs of women are much closer to being on par as far as strength of men... The upper body is much weaker.   A lot of women shoot a truly hip-dominant shot where they pop the ball up using their hips off the ground.  You do not want this shot.   

2) The hips need to either rotate and provide lift or they can produce horizontal power when used in the air (sweep and sway).   It's not practical or repeatable to jump extremely high on your shot (think fatigue and small spaces), so you don't need to execute maximal jumps on every shot. 

The one time players do use a lot of hip action is when they shoot at the top of their jump (think Kobe Bryant rising up and shooting a turnaround from 10 feet behind the three point line).  This is because if they find themselves floating very far from the hoop and they don't have the ground with which to make force they can keep the same wrist action and supply extra power by popping their hips (you have seen this - feet go forward but goes back).   This does provide more horizontal force but it doesn't provide vertical force so it lowers the shot angle which makes it harder to hit.  Not surprisingly players are less accurate from father away....

All except for Steph Curry that is.  Steph Curry is unique in that he doesn't adjust with his hips (which by the way are far more fatigued at the end of the game than the wrists) but actually adjusts with his arms and shot angle (the farther he is the more he shoots like a weak little kid who needs to heave it up to make it).   This is pretty unique and somewhat incredible but incredibly effective.  It goes against shooting dogma which says only kids are allowed to shoot the ball from below their head but it sure seems currys ability to keep his hips/legs doing the same thing every time and adjusting with his arms and shot angle is far more effective than anything else...

Bottom line is I haven't seen you shoot (other than free throws) but I don't see anything wrong with your shot.  If you are strong enough to shoot the ball from the three point line in and are not accurate enough you need to practice and you need to practice smart real-game shots.  You need to do it over and over again and you need to settle on mechanics that are repeatable for you.  If you want to release with flat hands (like Jordan) that's fine.  If you want to do what the call the shooters fork (three fingers down and thumb and pinky up) that's fine, if you want to to release with thumb and index finger touching that's also fine.   It doesn't matter.  It needs to be form that you can get off for your position in game (some combination of quick release or release height) and it needs to be something that is mechanically not so complicated that you cannot repeat it.  That's it.  Then you need to practice.  A lot.   AND - you need to settle on a bw.  Massive changes in BW will KILL your shot.  Ray Allen stayed within 6 pounds of a certain weight for years and years.   Going from 200lbs to 165lbs and back to 190lbs is a recipe for being a terrible shooter.  Pick a weight.  Stick with it.  Shoot.  Keep shooting.  You will be fine. 

My brain is not working anymore. I think my IQ is under 100 for sure, right now. In fact, I don't think it would be quantifiable in any way. If I were to take a psychological test right now I would fail it.

I know people take words on the screen lightly, but trust me, this is authentic.

You may be having a psychotic episode.  It would be best to see a mental health specialist right now.  That you can recognize this is important.  Your IQ is probably not much lower than normal for you because even during psychosis smart people are still smart about most things but it can seem like that and be very frustrating to not have the clarity you are used to - it would be best to see someone.