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Messages - D4

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256
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 05:03:43 pm »
Quote from: StuckInTheAir on July 26, 2011, 05:01:32 pm
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:59:53 pm
Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:52:34 pm
btw, explain to me why "pulling back on the pedal stroke" would utilize the hip flexors as the prime movers?

doesn't make much sense.

You just have to try it man. It's the most intense hip flexor exercise there is.

you're gonna have one hell of a hangover tomorrow morn breh

I just thought he might be trolling, never thought of the possibility he might be high or drunk right now.

257
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:59:42 pm »
Nice quote on ur sig adarq, anyways doesn't this thread deserve to get into the Topic Hall of Fame? 

258
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:54:39 pm »
Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:50:58 pm
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:45:51 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 04:42:06 pm
Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar?  Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"

You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL


Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...

You going off on completely different tangents man.

If Adarq wants to increase his vert, that's him, not NBA players that can already dunk & may not feel like the need to increase there verts.



michael jordan was never content.

if he could find a way to improve his athleticism even microscopically, he would do it.. same with kobe.. same with all of the "killers".

you are basically advocating that athletes should be content, which is polar opposite of being an athlete.


Exactly SickeninVendetta, I was trying to make a point saying NBA players can be so much more, but you're counter arguing against me saying "why should they be so much more, they can already dunk and ball"

I'm just going to assume you're trolling my ass off right now.  If so, good job, it was HILARIOUS (seriously)

259
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:47:43 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:45:51 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 04:42:06 pm
Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar?  Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"

You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL


Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...

You going off on completely different tangents man.

If Adarq wants to increase his vert, that's him, not NBA players that can already dunk & may not feel like the need to increase there verts.



HOLY SHIT YOU CONTINUE TO AMAZE ME BRO!  

I gotta admit, I'm laughing my ass off from this thread.  Good thing I started it, lots of laughs, whether you're trolling me or not.

260
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:42:06 pm »
Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar?  Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"

You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL


Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...

261
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:40:03 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:36:56 pm
Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:35:24 pm
name some, other than skill work?

Road cycling, pulling back on the pedal stroke increases the power in your hip flexors/turnover of your legs.

Increase the speed of your arm action.

Okay, just come out and say it, you're trolling me.

If not, doesn't matter, you just proved my point.  Let's say there are lots of things better at improving quickness than squat, as there very well could be, my whole point was that, NBA players DO WHATEVER IT IS TO MAKE THEM QUICKER (improve their athleticism), and you told me "WHY? THEY CAN BALL AND DUNK ALREADY"

YOU PROMOTE COMPLACENCY, GOOD JOB!

262
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:34:08 pm »
There is no way a human being can possibly consistently continue to fail to comprehend the points being attempted to make.  

Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:23:36 pm
Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:07:52 pm
and?

And I'm trying to workout what the benefits of adding 100lbs to your squat would be?. And how this would further increase a bballers existing potential since he can already play ball & dunk.


Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:07:52 pm
oh really?.

There all athletes. Can't sit & watch & TV all day man.





^^^ And that, is getting me suspicious.  Are you just trolling, trying to mess with me?  Cause I can't believe to the degree of ridiculousness your replies are heading towards.

Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:28:59 pm

A zillion things can make you quicker on O and D, don't need to squat.

Absorb more contact?. Wouldn't martial arts & boxing be more beneficial?.

I used squat as an example because YOU brought up squatting.  So basically you're saying squat DOES help absorb more contact and make you quicker, but other things can do so better?  You just proved my point buddy.

Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 04:28:59 pm


Well since he can already dunk, how much higher does he need to jump?.

Dwight Howard can get his mouth on the rim.  So if he decreased his vertical by about 25 inches so that he can just barely dunk, he would be the same player he is today? 

263
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 04:08:41 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 03:59:33 pm
Remember they can already play ball & dunk already. There accomplished athletes.

 :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

I am seriously astonished at how badly you are still not comprehending my arguments.  So if an NBA player can dunk, there's no use of him squatting anymore?  So the added squat strength which can help one jump higher, be quicker on O and D, and absorb more contact cannot help a player be even better?  Is dunking the end goal?  Is being able to dunk the final stage in athletic development?

If somehow you answer yes to that question, I will stop posting on here.

264
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 03:54:26 pm »
Quote from: Dreyth on July 26, 2011, 03:43:18 pm
I cannot fathom how much sickenvendetta missed your point, ineedtodunk.

LOL

265
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 02:35:20 pm »
Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 02:27:52 pm
if you want to become a better athlete in a sport you need to:

1. improve skill in sport
2. improve overall fitness
3. minimize stressors (proper sleep, diet, etc)
4. improve relative strength in compound movements & strength in individual muscle groups, both specific/important to the sport
5. ...

here's a small example:

#1. basketball is a sport than needs power/quickness, but is dominated by actual skill & natural advantages such as height etc.. Improving power will result in improved vert/speed/first step quickness etc, which will have an undoubtedly positive effect on ones skill game.

#2. competitive shotput is dominated by power/strength. One cannot compete at the elite level simply by throwing the shot & improving technique. They instead need to work on technique while getting stronger in the weight room.

this is why people such as john stockton, steve nash, gary payton, or even player's like steve kerr can compete with athletes who are superior in the power/speed department, and even dominate them.. an example of a powerful point guard would be kevin johnson or derrick rose..

you're not going to find weak shot putters at the elite level... you will however, find weak basketball players at the elite level, in fact, many of whom can actually dominate the sport due to other aspects of the sport (reaction time, perception, decision making, skill) etc.

so, in a sport like basketball, you can get by, without dedicating your life to strength..

in a sport such as shotput, you cannot get by, without dedicating your life to strength..

if basketball players want to jump higher, run faster, and thus gain an edge on their competition, they need to dedicate their life to strength... instead, most dedicate their life to skill.. most people cannot dedicate themselves to both, so they will favor one over the other, but to become the best athlete you can possibly be, both issues need to be addressed.

pretty much anyone in the nba, except the players who are already freaks (not many), could increase their athleticism considerably.. these players aren't going to achieve considerable gains in athleticism by utilizing exercises that do not address maximal strength & thus explosive strength... you aren't going to improve max strength on a bosu ball or using kettlebells or using balance exercises or using secret society medball exercises.

pc


So you would agree with me when I say that a considerable amount of NBA players can really enhance their games if they worked on strength/power/athleticism without neglecting skill work?  And that if the trainers didn't have to worry so much about injuring star players, and they made them do real work in the weight room, many great players will become even greater?

266
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 02:03:25 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 01:59:40 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 01:53:17 pm
Brandon Jennings with added strength = greater player.

Not necessarily.

Brandon Jennings with added power I might agree with.

I mean he adds 100lbs to his squat over the off-season?.

Huh?. Can't he already dunk.

ARE YOU SERIOUSSSSS?!?!

So if Brandon got stronger, you don't agree he'll be better?  I  never said SQUAT BTW.  And if he did add 100lbs to his squat then GREAT.  He'll possibly jump a few inches higher, be a little quicker, absorb my contact, and overall be a better player......

267
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 01:53:17 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 01:49:34 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 01:41:26 pm
So yes, they DO need those guys.  Unless you promote complacency with what you've already got.

No they don't cos they call already ball, run & dunk. They already have the attributes, there already great players.

They don't need GREAT speed. They don't need Andy Bolton strength.

Usain Bolt speed + Andy Bolton strength = Greatness?.

Nope.

No way am I promoting athleticism over SKILL in basketball.

Brandon Jennings is a great player already.  
Brandon Jennings with added strength = greater player.

Pau Gasol arguably best PF.
Pau Gasol with athleticism = unarguably best PF.

Forget it, we'll agree to disagree.  You promote complacency if you're already good.  I promote being the best you possibly can be. End.

268
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 01:41:26 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 01:30:13 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 01:23:54 pm
quote] :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

That is no reply or argument.

My next response would have been, no NBA team needs Louie Simmons telling them how to increase strength, no NBA team needs Usain Bolt telling them how to increase speed.


NBA players CAN ALREADY ball & dunk through genes.


They don't need those guys.




You are continuing to completely miss my point.

No NBA team needs someone to tell them how to increase strength?  So why is Brandon Jennings trying to become stronger before the next season by boxing?  Sure it can help, but not as efficiently as a proper weight training routine.  He's not gonna need to uppercut people in the NBA.

YES THEY HAVE GREAT GENES AND CAN ALREADY DUNK AND BALL WELL.  So what?  That means there's no point of improving that even further?  So what if an NBA jumps high, jumping even higher won't help?  I jump high at 38", just because I jump high I should stop?  Training to get my vert higher, will help me in so many more ways in basketball than just the vertical part.

I never said, they need real trainers to get them dunking  :uhhhfacepalm:  I said they need real trainers so they can become even greater than they already are.  Without real trainers, these athletes are clueless, hence Brandon taking boxing lessons, and AUT thinking his hops are all abs.

So yes, they DO need those guys.  Unless you promote complacency with what you've already got.

269
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 01:23:54 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 01:18:22 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 01:12:22 pm
Okay, amazingly you have failed to understand the point I attempted to make in each of your responses.

Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 12:59:18 pm
MY MAIN POINT IS, elite athletes like NBA players and AUT, accept what is usually given to them, and believe they can express their elite athleticism because of what they did, when usually, it's their genes.  This is not their fault.  Their job is to ball and dunk.  It is the trainer's faults.  I believe these trainers can enhance the NBA player, or todays TFB/AUT dunkers even further, but they don't.

My question is: why not?  Are these trainers no different than your typical 24 hour fitness trainers?

Your not making any sense.

NBA players CAN ALREADY ball & dunk through genes. Why go over that?.


:uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:

270
Strength, Power, Reactivity, & Speed Discussion / Re: NBA Players Training
« on: July 26, 2011, 01:12:22 pm »
Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 01:10:25 pm
Quote from: Ineedtodunk on July 26, 2011, 12:59:18 pm
If he believes abs are the end all be all for jumping high, yes he is mis-informed as you will agree with as well.
 

If he's all abs & genetics, there is no need to put in the extra effort (legs) if he's already got hopz.

If I was in the NBA I would want to be more powerful. Boxers & martial artists certainly carry a lot power & speed. They some do weights, but it's not the be all end all to producing power.

I believe the trainers know exactly what there doing. No need for Louie Simmons in any camp.


Okay, amazingly you have failed to understand the point I attempted to make in each of your responses.

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