Fair arguments. But you guys do take it to the extreme.
raptor, there does not exist only 9% and 18%. There is also 85kg/15% which compromises the two words pretty well, and is much more realistic for my case anyway.
entropy, i agree with your bulk&cut logic, i agree a lot. But your examples are evidently wrong and skewed to make your case strong:
Starting a bulk at 85kg means now your bodyfat goes up from ~13kg (~15%) to 18kg (~20%). Now you have 10kg more bodyfat than your athletic bodfat amount shud be. Oops. Good luck cutting 10kg off, which wins you not much.
In contrast suppose you cut to 75kg and now have a bodyfat of 7.5kg. You bulk up 10kg, maybe gain 5kg of lean mass (not muscle either, just lean mass which is water etc).
In the first case, the 85kg 15% guy became 20%bf with 18kg of fat, so he is 90kg. So his added weight was 100% fat?
In the second case, an 75kg-10% guy bulked 10kg and MAYBE 5kg of them was not fat?
Also, i did not cut from 90 to 85, i cut from 92 to 82 and that does make a huge difference.
Also, you are not 15%, you cut from ~95 to ~75, you log that you have a six-pack and visible veins in your abs.
For god's shake, get your numbers stairght!!!
But i still agree with your logic. And yes, bulking is more efficient the leaner you are so you do serve your goals better if you start leaner. But that does not mean 70kg-8%, the threshold that lyle sets for an effective bulk is 15%.
So here is my perspective : I have done many bulk and cut cycles, and it seems that the efficiency for me is around 60% for both. I track it, i log it too if you search. That means that when i bulk it is 60%LBM-40%fat gain, and when i cut it is 60%fat-40%LBM loss. That means that in every cycle i end up 20% better. This is what i do. And it works, i end up at the same weights ( bulk or cut ) every time at a better bf%. Previous year i was 92kg/19%, this one i was 92/18, previous year after cut i was 82/16%, now i am 82/15%. Next year i will bulk to 92/17% and cut at to 82/14%. And i will still be at the bodyweight i like being for most of the time and my clothes will fit me well too.
PS : what part of my last post made you both think imma bulk and led you to prompt me not to? I said i do NOT intend to bulk yet like i did all other years, i said i want to explore what happens in this low bw and reconsider:
Still cutting though, and i will not start bulking when i go back to gym in 10 days. Gonna try to stay at 81-82 that i will be by then and improve as much as i can strength and movement efficiency at that weight to see what will happen.
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