I wonder what would happen if someone would do downhill jumps. Like a SLIGHTLY declined slope where you run and jump. I think I've seen something like this, obviously there is more overload occuring so it's a mini depth jump, I'm talking unilateral jumps here or bounds.
Like, consecutive one-leg bounds on the same leg going downwards.
definitely bounding/sprinting can be done on small slopes, i just dont think there's a need to get 100% specific and do a running jump etc, if downhill bounds/sprinting is making you stronger then it'll carry over to your SLRVJ etc.
I would say overloading speed to more than what your used to is very risky, and becomes very technical if one wants to avoid injury. If your a one foot jumper and you try doing this over-speed jumping, i could see frequent planting way ahead of your COM and getting foot/ankle/knee problems. Also I believe run-up speed also has a relationship with rate of force development/peak power output. if you run super fast, id think your GCT would be reduced and you might have trouble applying much force to the ground and end up getting little lift..
yup i agree.. it does seem very risky to me, i've never been able to completely "go for it" when i've tried it, i mean i've tried to, but there's just too much inhibition..
i think what could be beneficial would be just faster runups and a strong plant, no jump.. that sounds a bit more beneficial and doable, since you can focus all of your efforts on simply running up fast and decelerating hard in a plant.
Never ever seen the VMO overshadow someones leg like that before. reminds me of the Hockey players that trained during my internship shit sagged over their knees it was so developed lol
haha, ya im all vmo, shit is odd.. my VL is pathetic in comparison.
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oh well...legend of Air Jesus continues haha
are your MESM clusters more volume than what you describe in the MESM article?
if everything goes well I smell a new article for the performance blog mangg
i actually think I wrote them in there, I think I wrote I have some custom MSEM mods that I like, such as the 2x8 etc, I was actually writing a second MSEM article way back, just realized, on stuff like i did last night (more specific to sets of jumps, in season stuff, etc)... ya If everything goes well I plan on blogging the entire concentrated block + peaking cycle.. I'll do that anyway I guess, i'll post all the workouts in succession and blog about it etc.. that'll be coo.
in the offseason this year, im thinking of doing a ratio focusing on gaining mass while also being stimmed enough to pr and play well at aau basketball. im too much of a pussy at the moment to squat for anything above 5 reps so I kinda worked around that a bit. goal is to peak vert after every msem. what do you think?
workout B plyos, upper, core x whatever LUNGE work up to 1 x 5rm, then 2x8- 2min rest SQUAT 2x5- 3 min rest
MSEM plyos, upper, core x whatever LUNGE 2x4- 30 sec rest between reps, 4 min rest between sets SQUAT 2x4- 30 sec rest between reps, 4 min rest between sets
looks very good heh!!!! i'd throw in some barbell calf raises though, could just be light or too fatigue (when you have some rest days following).. Looks good, bottom line though, is you want to be putting on some serious lean mass these next few years.. Session A & B that you typed out can definitely do that if you're really pushing the progression and getting in your protein, you might want to throw in even more volume on those days WHEN YOU CAN, given the schedule etc.. I'd go 3min rest on lunges on Session B, just so you're not toast before squat 2x5.. but ya that looks really good.
bmully gets elbowed by adarq bmully casually walks by adarq bmllly tries to hit adarq hard with elbow, but misjudges the distance and look like a pussy
awee dude that was NOT a foul. Odom fell asleep and DID NOT BOX OUT. i never realize Griffin is 6'10" until this thread. seen a few random high lights of him on news and that was it (uhh yah where have i been lol haven't really watched NCAA for years)...
bw = 154 soreness = 0 aches/injuries = ankles feel good, low back a little, right shoulder bugging (from holding up my grandpa) fatigue = low diet = egg sandwhich on multigrain bread + slice of cheese, protein shake + 2 teaspn coffee, "dunks", protein shake, turkey and cheese on wheat bread, training B, half protein shake, training C + half protein shake, protein shake, pb sandwhich on multigrain bread
Training A: was planning on going to dunk with eddie, then the weather turned shitty and rained.. went to the roof'd outdoor court, packed.. went to LA fitness, dude said I could do some dunks cause they were closing in 10 minutes so i just went right in and did a 5min warmup then 5 dunk attempts.. was cool of that dude to let me do that.
training B: - walk 6 miles with the tucks in between - ME MR halftucks: 6 x 10 - MR halftucks: 4 x 25 - light 20-40 stride sprints after each set of tucks - quads/calfs/achilles feeling it, good sign, means im 'weak' reactively there recently, which makes sense since i neglected tucks for like 1.5 weeks.. anyway, this should bring alot more pop back into my jumps.
training C occurred pretty much right after training B, but i drank half a protein shake in between so..
will upload vid tomorrow as example MSEM clusters, went pretty well.. legs were a bit tired from all the prior work but that's pretty important now so it's not like im going to neglect it.. i'll be fine following all those tucks, very soon.
PEACE!@$!@$!@
from a previous post:
check this out, actually very proud of myself.. check the title of the vid:
"WHAT IF YOU ONLY HAD 5 MINUTES TO DUNK? La fitness closes at 8pm on sunday wtf?"
unfortunately, dunking got rained out, hit up la fitness for 10 minutes, dude let me in free.. good shit.
I have invisible VMO on my right leg. It's visible when the leg is flexed, but when it's extended you can barely see it. So much vastus lateralis.
damn.. i'd say i'm mostly vmo, pic might not do it justice i dno, but my vmo definitely outshines my VL by a big margin..i'm the complete opposite of u.
Well that explains why you're jumping so much higher than me off two feet. Any ideas on how to get that VMO bigger? Maybe using a more narrower stance in the squats? How about other exercises?
my vmo is probably well developed at some level because of all of the basketball dribbling i've done, really quick change of directions etc in all types of crazy positions.. that's what i attribute my base vmo size to.
other than that, narrow stance full or half squat sure, but my vmo gets hit hard with all of the reactive work i do.. that's where i feel it the most.. reactive work/DJ's really hit my vmo hard.
Pretty unlucky huh guys... oh well, it is wat it is...
Saw a gp, got some anti swellin pills and painkillers. Dun think any bones fractured, but gonna get an xray done tmr.
But re Damien's remark abt ligaments... Is an MRI the only way? Dun think I can afford one, it costs like half a grand or more here..
ya in terms of visually seeing it, x-ray isnt going to show it, but you can find out if ligaments are torn based on manual testing by the PT's so.. don't worry about that right now, swelling will need to go down first before they can figure that out without mri so.
sprints - warmed up to 3 sets of about 30yard sprints 85-90% (dark, rain and gravel = less than ideal. I will have to come up with a better solution)
tested standing vertical 26" ( using rhino hoop and raising one crank at a time until I couldn't hit.( one crank= about 1/2") reach is dead on 7'6" in waffles. hit 9'8" standing. couldn't get RVJ due to rain/ slick surface. If I add in my standard 3" running increase. I would still miss a 10' ring by 1".
Standing vertical is down about 2", but I am also up about 12lbs. Hopefully I can gain 1" with a drop of 6lbs?
Ran on treadmill 30 min 5.0mph 5.0 incline. 2nd time this week. I feel fat and slow.
each 5 lb of fat is about 1-1.5 inches, so ya, definitely could gain 1" with 6lb fat loss.
I've been pretty eccentric with my training ideas, and am always questioning the specificity of exercises for sport. I'm a little less eccentric now but I just wanted to throw this idea out there. If other people have talked about it just delete this thread.
lol nice segue
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A depth jump is supposed to overload the muscles involved in power sports. Most depth jumps however seem to overload the eccentric capacities of the quadriceps group more than is specific to vertical jumps, one or two footed.
it's VERY specific to SVJ/RVJ.. vertical jumping is quad dominant, the act of vertically displacing the body is quad dominant, there's no other way around it. Not only do depth jumps just overload properties of muscle & the movement, depth jumps overload the central nervous system, by having your body reflexively call upon protected/protective CNS resources.
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Although this is beneficial in many regards, I'm just raising the question of specificity. In a running vertical jump, the athlete usually takes three to four steps before jumping. This increases the amount of force the glutes and hamstrings absorb before transferring it to the quads, in simple terms.
the qauds absorb most of the force when planting, they are the "breaks".. after absorbing this force, they also produce most of the force, along with the calfs, glutes, and hamstrings, but the quads provide the base for which all vertical displacement relies on (through absorbing force in the plant and then producing force concentrically in combination with other muscle groups).
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What happens in a depth jump however? The trajectory of the center of gravity looks like a bouncing ball dropped off a cliff. But in a running vertical jump, the trajectory of the center of mass is more like a pinball that meets a spring and goes flying, in other words, it stays quite level for the first three or four steps, then right before the jump, unloads like a spring. Completely different.
the overload of a DJ simply strengthens the athlete to enable them to transition faster from eccentric to concentric, as well as produce more force during the initial plant (drop) and transition.. those adaptations transfer well to RVJ, they don't need to be completely specific. The thing with DJ's, is that you can load them up with forces exceeding that which you can create voluntarily, ie by raising box height, ie 30" through 42" box heights. 30" for "reactive strength peak", 42" for maximal strength peak.
With your idea (which I like and have talked to raptor about on a few occasions, not sure if he's done it though), there's too much inhibition. Overriding that inhibition is going to occur through a completely voluntary mechanism, unlike with dj's, where it's a protective overriding of the inhibition. So dj's, in my mind, would improve qualities quicker than your idea, BUT, your idea definitely can yield gains, it would just take some serious focus & lack of injuries.. I think you should call your approach "shock runups", because really it is voluntarily trying to override that which your body is comfortable with, not by a small margin either, by a LARGE margin.. a 4-5 step runup is intense as it is, but a 7-9 step runup is just really insane, so it is shocklike imo.
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So here is the exercise that I propose, it's pretty damn simple, I'm sure people have done this already, but while it's on my mind I'm posting it. It aims to improve the ability of the posterior chain to convert horizontal velocity/power to vertical velocity/power
1. Run faster than you ever would for a running vertical jump 2. Jump as high as possible.
posterior chain shouldn't really be brought into this, sure you're utilizing more p-chain in the runup because of the higher velocity of the runup and the increasing number of strides, but the ability to put on the breaks, absorb than runup force in a very small time frame, and then jump, is VERY quad dominant. It would be p-chain dominant if you were broad jumping for horizontal distance... but again, we're talking vert, so putting on the breaks in itself relies most heavily on the quads, jumping vertical = quads, so your technique is going to target the quads more than p-chain.
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Start with three fast steps, then progress to five, seven, nine, and a full sprint if that's even possible. You may be surprised how high you can jump. Someone who is very good at converting horizontal velocity to vertical is TDUB. In this video he has jumped faster than anything I have ever seen, probably as fast as Darlington or faster. He also does not get as deep as he usually does, maybe this is related to his tremendous ability to absorb force in the pchain? <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg4oPtERYqY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg4oPtERYqY</a>
why would not going deep signify tremendous ability to absorb force in the p-chain, on the flip side, it shows tremendous ability to absorb force in the quads/calfs, since they are both highly loaded. If his body was getting him to absorb more in the p-chain, he'd be deeper in the plant, as the deeper you go, the more glute/ham recruitment you're going to get.. I think it shows you how strong his quads/calfs are, watch the vid in slow mo, watch how he sits into it with his right leg first and then just digs in very stiff with that left leg, significantly stopping his momentum, that's serious quad/calf. If you watch alot of t-dub vids, you'll notice his heels are rarely flat on the ground in his plants, he's getting SERIOUS calf contribution in his jumps.. he's a spring.
but ya i agree that is one of the most psychotic jumps i've ever seen, love that video so much.
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Problems with this method: targets Pchain heavily, and is therefore not completely specific to a vertical jump...lol, of course only a running vertical jump is completely specific. After one workout, the potentiation from your CNS may cause you to favor the pchain more in regular jumps, so that is something to think about for long term use. I get potentiation effects very easily so I don't know about you. I plan to do this in a week when I will be off weights.
Rest up, Avishek
I think this style of training could be risky due to it's "shocklike" properties, you're basically trying to voluntarily override your body's natural tendency to inhibit that kind of speed into the plant.. that's really hardcore.. so anyone who messes with this needs to be: 1. in great shape 2. very experienced 3. good at knowing what's going on with their body during training sessions 4. healthy
i've played with it a few times, going from 6-7 steps, i actually have gotten some nice jumps in, nothing over my maxes at the time, but it completely haywires me.. jumping for the first time after, i get a nice jump in, then after that, session turns to crap very quick. just seems to really cause me to drop off fast... so that is a sign it could be very effective if someone sticks to it.
I wanted something that didn't fatigue the quads at all, instead, highly stimulating the glutes, hamstrings, and calfs. I felt that heavy squatting as stim, prior to jumps, was just killing my quads too hard. I never had a problem with fatigue when doing jumps after IES, and that was the point.. stim without quad fatigue.. sure you'd want to stimulate the quads for vert, but, in this exercise, you're stimulating glute/ham/calf, which still is recruited during vert so, it's going to give those muscle groups some extra pop.
short sprinting/broad jumps after IES felt amazing.
Drew, do you do these everytime before a dunk session?
nah, i used too, i just do progressive 10's, dribbling and jumps now.. everything starts out very light and transitions gradually until im going max on everything.
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