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Messages - T0ddday

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166
^^^me, too. thanks.

took this vid a couple of days ago, didn't realize i was doing that weird kickback with the off leg until i watched.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joAD8Ie8MZM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joAD8Ie8MZM</a>

How high do you get on each leg?  What's your current SVJ?

167
^^^

Was great to train Alistair Cole.  Unfortunately I had come from an LBSS late night and didn't do the best job as a trainer but hopefully I helped him w his biggest weakness...

My notes on him:

1) Surprisngly similar to LBSS as an athlete.  Same perfect long torso build for squatting - warmed up on the squat together at 135lbs he looks about 100x stronger than me... Perfect rigid torso and descent into the hole wheras myself and another client I was training at the time (6'5 guy) are wobbly and unstable w weight on our back...  Not able to look stronger in the squat until the weights get too big for him.

2) Lacks explosive strength and stability at the end of the movement as shown in his band squats, hip pop not there.  Won't take much to fix.

3) Strange unorthodox basketball game.  Played a game of weighted 1 v 1 which I was able to win in an epic comeback thanks to my dead eye long distance shooting.  LOL. 

4) Decent reach. Only 1-2 inches below mine despite only being 5'9 or 5'10.

5) Weak core strength.  Fixing this will do wonders. 

6) Decent jumper.  Initially could not touch rim, so <30 inch vertical.  After weighted jumps and proper warmup was able to get inches above it.  While I can't throw a self lob to save my life I do consider myself an expert lob thrower for others and I threw him one he was able to get and attempt a dunk where his hand hit the rim.  Judging from this he is only 3-4 inches from a dunk.  I have a measured 11 foot mark that he tried to touch and was about 7-8 inches from so his top jump this day was about a 32-33" jump.   To catch a lob needs about a 36-37 inch vertical - for me I can't dunk without touching 11' - so to dunk without a lob needs about a 40" jump.  Totally possible because...

7) He is TERRIBLE at jumping.  Which is great.  This is about the best weakness you can have.  Hardest person to train is the person who has been playing basketball and has great movement efficiency on approach jumps and has basically maximized jumping efficiency.  Just training his approach jump will net him an easy 4 inches or so improvement.   This is a good thing. 

8) Overall.  Lean, strong athlete.  Decent runner.  Slightly weaker than LBSS and slightly less stocky but judging from 2 years ago slightly faster than LBSS. 

Plan going forward.  Abandon deep dip vertical jumps.  Increase squat strength and high squat strength with bands moderately.  Hammer core strength.  Practice rebound jumps and approach jumps with plant religiously.  Stay healthy.  No reason why a lob dunk can't happen before 2017.   

168
It is weird how people will gladly tell you how skinny you are (always with the tall and skinny) yet they would never say the same thing to a fat person. Just imagine that "hey, you're so short and fat. how's that working out for you?"

That's actually true. I mean for someone who really struggles with being tall and skinny it's also pretty hurtful when you comment on it all the time yet in our society it's not appropriate to tell someone when he is really fat. I mean where's the logic in that.

The logic comes from the fact that it's better in pretty much every aspect of life (jobs, women, money, etc) to be tall.  And w the exception of a few athletes with musclerexia being skinny is usually thought of a generally good thing that comes with the territory. 

So someone might ask how is your good fortune working out for you?  This is completely logical.  It's the same reason we don't pry into why someone is poor but we comment on people who made it as a positive thing... There is a guy I train and I always assumed was an average upper/middle class (by LA standards) guy... He showed up to the gym Sunday in a blue lambo and I definitely asked him how he came up on that - turns out he was in Google early...  I wouldn't have asked about his struggles if he showed up in a bucket...

I get y'all don't like being skinny... But you can't expect society to assume your strange particular hangup when most people want what you have.  I always want to be smaller and less muscular - so when I change and someone says "whoa your traps are huge" or someone refers to me as the "big guy" or says "your amazingly fast for a big guy" I cringe cause I would rather see myself as a smaller speed athlete... This is why I haven't  done upper body training in years!  However, since I realize this is generally thought to be a good thing I understand where they are coming from...

Reminds me of a time recently when I was playing ball and after the game there was an impromptu dunk contest... I was jumping really well and threw down one of my cleaner windmills... A 22 year old guy asked me for my age and when I told him I was in my thirties he said "OMG you must have absolutely flew in your younger days!"   For some reason this made me so mad... But I just smiled and said thanks 😐. 

169
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« on: June 30, 2016, 11:03:23 am »
Think I may want to switch to an RL plant... officially. just so much more versatility with dunk that you could do. Not to mention it'll make it way easier to dunk in game.

Good luck.  I tried it.  I can do it but it's fake - it's just a jumpstop.   If you are profiicient in LR I think it's easier to start doing more in game dunks w your left - it's how I dunk on fast breaks.

Then again Russell Westbrook came into the league w RL and has since added a great LR plant.  But he is the only such example...

170
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: June 30, 2016, 05:49:37 am »

6) PrimeTime straight Leg skip  x10?
7) Rudiment Hops (all legs) (sets/reps - just forward or backward and side as well - x10 each leg?)
11) Speed Bounds reps
12) 5x20m sprint   (rest periods for sprints- just based on when ready to go again?)

- The primetime straight leg skips are part of your dynamic warmup.  The idea here is to pick a distance rather than reps.  So, ideally you lunge walks (x10) should take place over 15-20 yds.  If you end up doing 12 lunges or just walking a few yards at the end thats fine.  Use this same distance for your primetime leg skips and your rudiment hops.  Your rudiment hops can be done forward, backward, sideways all one one leg for about 10 yards- so left leg forward, left leg back, right leg forward, right leg back, left leg side, right leg side.

- The speed bounds should take place over about 20 yards with a stride out after. 

- As far as rest periods for sprints - yes it is based on when you are ready to go again but don't have a full recovery "ME" mindset.  It's a lot of sprinting volume.  If you need 1 minute between 20yd sprints to feel like your 95% and 5 minutes before you feel like you can PR your 20yd sprint then take 1 minute.  With this much volume you can't think every rep is the ultimate sprint - rather think every rep is quality.  If you need 10 minutes between 20yd sprints before you feel like your ready to go 90% then you are not in shape and you should just take 1-2 minutes and you will adapt.  You really shouldn't need much rest for 20s, 40s, etc.  When the reps get longer (100m +) allow yourself some additional rest but start the program with the goal of suboptimal rest that you will adapt to.  This also gives the awesome affect of faster improvement which makes any program more fun.... What I mean by this is if you start out with:

2x60m sprint  (5 minutes rest between reps)
(20 minutes rest)
2x3x100m sprint (10 minutes rest between reps, 20 minutes between sets)

You might go 8.5, 8.5 & (15, 15, 15) & (15, 15, 15)  in week 1 and then in week 4 you might go (8.3, 8.4) and (14.5, 14.5, 14.5) & (14.5, 14.5, 14.5).

Instead if you take 3-4 minutes between 60s and 5 minutes between sets and 4-5 minutes between 100m sprints you might start off at: (8.5, 8.7) & (15, 15.5, 16.0) BUT you will adapt to this and in week 4 be at the same spot with less rest and your improvement will be more significant and your work capacity increased so you can workout for shorter which is good for having a life...

Basically, use minimal rest possible to still hit reasonable marks.  So if your 100m set looks like (14.5, 17.5, 20.5) you NEED more rest... But if each rep is within reason from the last then use that rest interval rather than waiting till you feel perfect....

Quote
3) Reverse Slant Bench Leg Raises w/weight (sets/reps)

So, I tried to show these to Acole but basically your head is higher than your butt and your feet off the floor.  I like to do this following here:

2x10-15x straight leg raise w a dumbell (maybe start with a 5-10lb)
2x10 x diagonal leg raise - so you raise legs from middle to your up and to your right side (your left butt/hip comes off bench) and back down and to other side like a V)..  Here you need a lighter dumbbell between your feet. 

Increase reps to 20 and then add weight to dumbbell...



Quote
2x5 SL Vertical Jumps (each leg) (stationary or running)
kX3 Step Jumps ("Toddday method") (sets)
10 x SL max jumps (stationary or running)

Sorry, the first SL jumps are stationary (warmup) and the final ones are approach jumps. 

As far as the "Toddday method" jumps what it means is this.  3 jumps with 1 step.  Then 3 jumps with two step approach.  Keep going UNTIL you don't gain any inches with the increased steps.  If you get to a 5 step approach you are basically doing a full run-in approach.  Don't do more steps than are needed... For me on my good side I go - 1 step (R step turn) = ~ 37'', 2 step (L, R) = ~38", 3 step (LRL) = ~40", 4 step (LRLR) = ~40, 5 step (RLRLR) = ~43, max steps (around 7 with a hop start) = ~ 45".  Notice I don't get as much gain on the even steps.  I am left leg dominant and LR plant so I can do a spin step and jump high but then when I add a step I start with R forward which is awkward.  Then I can jump well with a walking approach (RLR) but adding the next step isn't much gain at all.  Continue like this until there is no gain for two consecutive additional steps..


Quote
3) Explosive Push Press (sets/reps)
4) Slant Bench Abdominal Curl w/weight (sets/reps)
5) Med Ball Toss (sets/reps)

Explosive Push Press = (if you can't drop the weight do 3 sets of 3-8) if you can drop the weight do sets of 2 (you will have to clean it up each time). 
Med Ball Toss = Get at least 10 backward and 5 forward tosses in.




Quote

C2) 2x2x150m,1x300 TT sprint/stride (TT = time trial?)

Yup a time trial means record this time diligently and be FULLY rested for it.  This is your one weekly test of speed endurance.  The other work you will do will indirectly help speed endurance but here is your test to make sure it's improving.

Quote
2) Dumbell Single Leg Deadlift to Press (reps/sets)
3) Dumbell Incline Press
4) Dumbell Row
5) Weighted Pullups

For single leg deadlift to press we do as many reps as possible.  So here is the idea.

Put a 50lb dumbbell on the ground.  Lift up your right leg off the floor.  The right leg is not to touch the floor again.  Now bend down and pick up dumbell with your right hand.  Deadlift it and clean it to your shoulder.  Then press it.  Now lower it back until it touches the ground and repeat.   You will most likely find yourself hopping around like a fool.  That's ok.  But that other leg can't touch.  When it does the set is over.  If you fail at 2-3 reps you are using too much weight.  When you get 8 clean reps in a row - that's when you up the weight.  You should be at about 5-6 reps with the optimal weight.

Other assistance stuff can be 2-3 x 8-10 reps.



***********************
I agree with LBSS.  Don't add volume.  Instead cut volume where the program is flexible.  Tape the SL deadlift stuff.  In fact tape everything I would like to have a library of multiple people doing these exercises it would be helpful for everyone...

Remember, that most of the program is submax.  Have a submax (training with a team) mindset for the bounds and most everything but things like squats and vertical jump... Your body will tell you when it's time to go all out on something like DL bounds.  When they get easier - so you might be doing 5 bounds to 15 yards and one day you will just say from now on I am going 16 yards.  And then you are.

Good luck.

171
It's day 4 of eating clean .. so far so good. I find once i get through day 3 thru, im almost on auto pilot which is good. It's the first couple of days where i have to work the will power. Now staying the course til day 10, then i'll add in eggs and toast to meal 1, before maintaining that for another 10 days. By day 21 i shud start to resemble myself in acceptable shape.

I just wanna make a note in passing, as of yesterday ive started taking the train to work. Which is weird cos you're next to sick/coughy ppl .. and that's a bit disturbing .. but .. i walk i think about a km from the parking lot to the the train stop, then about half a km to the train stop to work. Over a period of weeks it shud add up to a bit of fat loss.. which is cool. Nothing amazing, just something. I lost my fitbit on sunday otherwise i cud measure it in terms of steps.

Really on the fat loss?  2 miles a day RT is about 1000 cals a week...

Would not be noticeable to me as my bmr when training is between 3500 to 4500 per day and a 1000 cals per week and the additional hunger would just get lost in the noise...

But then again you log your food w bodybuilding discipline so maybe it's noticeable for you... Too much free food in my life for me to reach that standard... lol jealous if your able to pull it off. 

172
barely slept last night because, well, when you're naked and lying next to a hot naked girl and you've just had sex a short while ago and she says, "i want to have sex with you so bad right now," you're best served not to fall asleep. and i was dog-sitting so i had to get up at like 7 and go over to my friends' place to walk their dog.

- daily routine

- some beach work for funsies

so tired.

#humblebrag  :highfive:

#thirsty ?

173
I think it would be better if I record my sprint and then time myself as lbss mentioned and maybe that would be more accurate.

Uhh.  Yeah. 

Don't get too down on your timing method your still better than Avishek and his timing of his 10m sprints while holding his iPhone.

174
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Scooby 2011 Journal
« on: June 26, 2016, 06:12:35 pm »
^^^ Lol.  Kingfish must have posted just after me.

This is good advice you are getting.  You should listen to it.  Consider that me and kingfish have VERY different philosophies about training BUT agree on the main point that your strategy of pushing up your squat while losing weight is a very bad goal and will lead to failure and injury...

Obviously he trains very differently than me - using the squat as a primary tool where I use speed and hip pop to make jumps and sprints happen...  What I don't agree with him on is

(1) You must squat more to jump high.  For standing vertical jump which he performs he is probably right and only a few exceptions.  However, I know many people who squat less than you and jump higher for DLRVJ.  Of course, getting your squat up works for him AND it surely won't hurt you especially as your standing vertical jump is concerned.  Again, it's up to you whether you think increasing squat or relative strength is a priority - if it is then you should listen to him with the one exception...

(2) His advice to get "fat" and strong is hyperbolic.  You may already realize this but I wanted to make it clear.  Nobody has to get "fat" ever.  That's the horrible advice that Mark Rippletoe gave that created a bunch of pudgy kids who who were and added 20 pounds to their lifts.   Beginners just get stronger.   Advanced people have to get "kingfish fat" to get stronger.  Kingfish fat is no abdominal veins and looking a bit softer than you want to.  I get it.  It's athlete fat.  It's relative to athlete lean where you maximize relative strength gains and he is right that unfortunately there is an optimal weight for performing a vertical jump (lean as hell) and an optimal weight for increasing relative strength especially through the squat (still leaner than the average person - but not especially lean).  There is some variance on the individual - some guys can stay damn lean while they gain weight and grow their squat but what doesn't vary is the leanness relative to the individual - it is always true that the optimal strength building leanness is "fatter" than the optimal performance leanness.   This sucks but we have to deal with it.  Your pretty lean...  You have two choices.  Try to maintain your squat and fix other issues to increase your jump OR give up on being photoshoot lean while you up your squat...  You don't have to get fat - but you won't be doing this while cutting for a photoshoot.

175
Contn:

Sprints x 4
dips 2x8

then as i was waiting to get my breath back after sprints, contemplating driving to the bball courts for pickup, my phone buzzed and she asked what i was doing and i said blah and then she said there's this movie. and I just had the best date of my life. so yeah, nothing makes sense anymore. but i'll take it. surreal

Not surprising at all!  I'm a scientist - I don't believe in most superstition or magic... 

But perspective is magic.  Notice how she called you when you were doing you (American saying - you were working out and becoming beast) rather than at home moping about your situation with her.  Your perspective and your outlook can be heard if your voice...  Sure it's probably not really magic... Probably if your feeling self pity she hears it in your voice and subconsciously feels some need to ask you something like "oh did I leave my necklace in your car? Oh no? Musta been another guy then."   Instead she here's your lactate filled voice and asks you to the movies... 

However if it's not magic who cares, it's far too complicated to try and model as anything else but magic, and it kinda kills it and makes it seem no fun anyway to try and think about why perspective matters, but it does.  Positivity, the benefit of the doubt, and acceptance go a long long way in matters of the heart. 

176
before t0ddday blows a gasket: without a FAT system or video with a clear shot of the finish line it's impossible to time sprints that short with anything close to the degree of accuracy you're claiming. strong chance that your measurements are just wrong.

ye i agree with you, both my 30m and 60m times would have errors but the corellation between the two dont match if i am timing both the same way, why is my 60m way slower then my 30m.

if my time was really 4.4 seconds and 8.4 seconds. this would not make sense the 60m time should be a bit faster.

Lol thanks for LBSS to beat me to it...

I think the point here is not only your poor timing method but the fact that you certainly were not timing the sprinters you saw with the same timing method you time yourself with...

Would be pretty easy to figure out if your right as well... Why don't you just run with these sprinters?

If they are running their 60m significantly faster than you then I would bet that you are not ahead of them at 30m...

Rather than relying on your broken methods just jump in a run w someone else!  If somehow you run w sprinters and your are significantly ahead at 30m and still getting destroyed at 60m...  Ok you have a problem.   Do I think that is the case? NO.   But I've been wrong, just figure it out.

**** also whenever you get data first perform a quick sanity check to see if it makes sense - if it's garbage throw it out. 

You are claiming a 4.1 30m split.  Usain Bolt goes 3.7-3.85.  Sub 10 guys go 3.9 all the time.  You are claiming to be just a bit off from the fastest guys in the world. 

Then you are claiming a 4.0 second split from 30-60.  4.1 ~ 4.0.

So your claim is that you run the same time for your flying 30m as you do for a 30m from a dead stop where you have to accelerate your non moving body.  Either you are the most out of shape person in the world and fatiguing from 30-60... Or what is most likely the case... Your data is garbage.  Nobody runs the same time from 0-30 as 30-60.  I'm sure you don't either.   Your data is garbage.  Throw it out.  This is why I told you to stop timing like you are!

177
Basketball / Re: NBA Trade Talk
« on: June 26, 2016, 06:07:36 am »
Ibaka to the Magic.

http://www.espn.com.au/nba/story/_/id/16462469/serge-ibaka-traded-oklahoma-city-thunder-orlando-magic

The whole thing makes a lot of sense but all hinges on KD staying with OKC. Apparently he's meeting 5 teams outside of OKC including the Celtics, Clippers, Heat, Spurs and GSW all at one place over the next week and will sign before July 9. I'd love him to stay with OKC but so many other possibilities.

ibaka to orlando.. nice.

isn't that kind of a bad sign when it comes to keeping durant in OKC though?

if i had to bet money on it.. i'd say he's going to leave OKC.

apparently the warriors will go after Whiteside (MIA) if they can't get Durant.. nooooooOoOOOoo.. that would suck for MIA fans, unless they can get Durant in Miami.

http://heatnation.com/rumors/report-golden-state-warriors-target-hassan-whiteside-unable-sign-durant/

Man... If the Warriors got whiteside and taught him the corner three....  Goddamn. 

Even if they didn't got they would be deadly... Their greatest weakness right now IMO is that while draymond is great he isn't a true rim protector cause he is too short and their two rim protectors (ezili and bogut) are too slow to fit into their offense... Almost think whiteside would be better than durant for them...

Either one though will make them absolutely unfair*

*unless of course whiteside finally gets paid and decides to stop trying

178
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Scooby 2011 Journal
« on: June 26, 2016, 01:00:34 am »
Quote
Let me keep doing this... consistently... and see how how things go...lets hope i can lower my weight increase my squat... for the sake of relative strength.

I really hate telling any athlete that they can't do something... But you have got to be realistic.  This is a plan for failure. Facts:

1) you are already really lean and want to get even leaner (photo shoot lean)
2) you are already strong in the squat
3) your not a beginner in the squat

Sorry man, but people with those three facts simply don't add poundage to their max squat WHILE dropping body weight.   It's just not realistic.  You can increase relative strength by maintaining squat while cutting a few more pounds but even that is going to be hard...

Ask yourself... Do you think your squat 1Rm is holding you back from your jumping goals.  I personally don't think it's the key but you know your body best so if it is... Then go on a block while your are not trying to drop be and add some poundage.  Then cut bw and maintain the new squat strength. 

If it isn't.  Then maintain or accept a small loss in squat strength, drop more weight and spend time on the myriad of other weaknesses you have that are not bw dependent. 

179
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Party's Over!
« on: June 25, 2016, 09:23:39 pm »
Cardio-
1100 skips

5x100m ME with 5 minute recovery

1x100m- 11.9
1X100M- 11.8
1X100M- 11.7
1X100M- untimed
1x100m- untimed

The tailwind was very strong, which is why the times were decent.
I didn't time the last 2 100s because I didn't want to hold the stopwatch.

I've run 11.37 FAT but considering I'm currently sitting at around 22% bodyfat I was pleased with the times. I was tempted to run some hill sprints because my body was feeling good, but i didn't want to push it too much and jinx myself.

On an unrelated note I have 2 cars, which are being an absolute headfuck for me atm. Thousands of $$$ down the drain just fixing these bitches, which I need for me and my girlfriend to get to work everyday since we both live long distances away from our workplaces. I ended up going through with that real estate purchase, which I was worrying about earlier in my journal so atm money is really tight. Lucky running is free and something that I enjoy.

I'll be honest I'm a bit skeptical that your 22% bf... But that said I don't see why you can't get into the 170s with your current strength levels and run really fast... I think your probably have similar ceiling to me and if u get in shape could be just as fast and probably run higher

I'm skinny fat right now. I'm 88kg (195lbs) and have a 38 inch waist, which is terrible. When I started this journal 8 months ago I was weighing 96kg (211lbs) with a 43 inch waist, which put me at 30% bodyfat.
http://clymer.altervista.org/bmi/

My ceiling would be a lot less than yours. Running mid 10's FAT is way beyond my expectations. I'd be happy to get to high 10s FAT and the only reason I think I can get to that is because NCAA females and professional female track athletes can run sub 11's and sub 22's. Realistically it would be an achievement if I could go sub 11.5 FAT and sub 23 FAT in the 100 and 200 respectively within the next 12 months.

Whoa.  First of I checked out the BF calculator and I think it is off for track athletes especially - I mean if you put in Usain Bolts competition stats it gives him double digit BF and I would bet a lot that he is single digits when he is breaking world records...

I think it's probably somewhat to do with waist measurement not being a perfect indicator for track athletes who have developed abs and obliques relative to most people.

What's your waist measurement when your in shape?  Your flucation is a bit crazy.  I have bounced around and gotten BF tested through mri and hydrostatic and as far as the eye test I have looked soft and chubby and lean and ripped and my stats are:

5'11 188 32 inch waist @ 5% BF
5'11 230 36 inch waist @ 16% BF

That's still only a 4 inch change to waist despite massive overeating... Maybe your stress hormones and alcohol are causing your waist changes (also evidence of the calculator being off).

As far as your ceiling I wouldn't bet against a mid ten run for your 100m as being impossible... Basically I think you can sort of describe training as (a) totally out of shape, (b) somewhat in shape but not a track athlete - eg I play ball a few times a week and can do ugly dunks but I'm not training for track, (c) training for track but also have a life and (d) pro or college level peaking where you eat sleep and drink track (no alcohol, etc) and the biggest non trainin stress on your CNS comes from the movies you watch between training sessions...

No point in discussing (a).  But for me when I'm in (b) I am naturally about mid 11.  I have to be in (c) to run 11.0 or dip under and really only (d) gets me into mid tens...

I don't think you really know (d) so even though it might not fit with your lifestyle and you won't do it (hard w a life and job really) I think that phase would get you to the numbers I think you have... I think this because your 200m times are never that bad when your out of shape which shows your top speed is naturally decent and that is probably the most non trainable quality I know for track...

Still your right to make realistic goals to start w and get your bw and BF under control.  Congrats on the progress you have already made hopefully your out of the hormonal hell of being truly fat and the gains will start accelerating now!

 

180
Basketball / Re: NBA Trade Talk
« on: June 25, 2016, 02:29:24 pm »
Yeah I am very bearish on Thon Maker. Players like him just can't stay on the court...plus competitive play issues (i.e. the Dante Exum situation). Hasn't played in very high levels of competition and as a result is probably overrated. He's getting massive hype over here now, of course. They're showing footage of him barely jumping doing a dunk drill and the news anchors are just going overboard over it.

On vertical/reach discrepancies, read this:

http://www.nbadraft.net/2016-nba-draft-combine-athleticism-test-analysis

They calculate their max vertical from their previously reported reaches, which were done incorrectly apparently.

Yeah, to be fair vertical and standing reach seems kind of like an impossible standard.  IMO since arm length is such a praised resource I would imagine most NBA guys would exaggerate their arm reach up a few inches... But I cannot believe some of these low reaches...

Personally I only have faith is my vertical with my head touches.  I'm 5'11 w flat hair and have gotten my flattop to the bottom of rim... So that's a 48" vertical minus 3 inches for hair and bottom of rim vs top... 45".  I trust it... Of course maybe the rim heights are not accurate so all bets are off lol. 

I know that when I reach to a vertec based on how much a dislocate my should and stretch and tip toe a bit my reach is actually between 7'7 and 8 feet...  A five inch range for my true reach is pretty huge...

In some nfl combines they do a two handed reach which obviously inflates vertical but actually makes it more standard IMO

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