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Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 05:00:51 pm

an increase in relative strength? the ability to produce/handle 100 lb more of tension? the ability to move previously intense weights at a faster speed due to the increase? the ability to voluntarily tap into more motor units? the possibility that significant hypertrophy has occurred? the transfer of this strength to jumping is very high considering the specificity of the exercise? the increases in testosterone/igf-1/hGH that has occurred during the process of such training, yielding plenty of benefits in not only the training itself, but the recovery process and overall arousal of the athlete for practices & sport?

Can't really see how this would make a player all that much better?.

everything i mentioned above relates to producing more force relative to ones bodyweight, which means more power, which means better first step quickness, acceleration, jumping ability, change of direction, etc.

i explained to you how it would, now you explain to me how it won't? explain to me how adding 100 lb to ones squat would not benefit them athletically, given bodyweight & rep speed remains relatively the same.

He can already play ball, run & dunk.  

cool story.

He's already an accomplished athlete from what he's already doing.

yet another cool story.

Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:50:58 pm

michael jordan was never content.

if he could find a way to improve his athleticism even microscopically, he would do it.. same with kobe.. same with all of the "killers".

you are basically advocating that athletes should be content, which is polar opposite of being an athlete.

So tell me what the weight room/100lb squat increase would achieve?.

an increase in relative strength? the ability to produce/handle 100 lb more of tension? the ability to move previously intense weights at a faster speed due to the increase? the ability to voluntarily tap into more motor units? the possibility that significant hypertrophy has occurred? the transfer of this strength to jumping is very high considering the specificity of the exercise? the increases in testosterone/igf-1/hGH that has occurred during the process of such training, yielding plenty of benefits in not only the training itself, but the recovery process and overall arousal of the athlete for practices & sport?

now it's your turn to explain to me how "pulling back on the pedal stroke" somehow targets the hip flexors hard? because "pulling back" and "hip flexor" are polar opposites.

explain?

LMAO DYING.

Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:45:02 pm

ROFLMFAOOMGROFL.

But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life.

Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!

btw, explain to me why "pulling back on the pedal stroke" would utilize the hip flexors as the prime movers?

doesn't make much sense...........................................


HAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't you used to have Bruce Lee as your avatar?  Didn't Bruce Lee say "Never be satisfied"

You're basically saying, if you can dunk and ball, BE SATISFIED LOL


Adarq, you can already dunk, STOP SQUATTING lol...

true, i'm going to stop squatting and pick myself up one of these:



going to honk in the plant to cause a fight or flight response and jump 10" higher.

Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:35:24 pm

name some, other than skill work?

Road cycling, pulling back on the pedal stroke increases the power in your hip flexors/turnover of your legs.

LMFAO.

Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:07:52 pm

and?

And I'm trying to workout what the benefits of adding 100lbs to your squat would be?.

improved athleticism?

And how this would further increase a bballers existing potential since he can already play ball & dunk.

so by your twisted logic, why would a player do anything other than maintenance because they can "already play ball & dunk".. why push yourself, you can already "play ball and dunk".. don't work on your jumper, strength, conditioning, etc.. YOU CAN ALREADY "PLAY BALL AND DUNK" aka you're an "accomplished athlete".

once you reach that accomplished athlete status, no need to push yourself anymore.. just coast!

strong outlook.

Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 04:07:52 pm

oh really?.

There all athletes. Can't sit & watch & TV all day man.

what? your reply to my comment makes no sense.

Quote from: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on July 26, 2011, 03:59:33 pm

Remember they can already play ball & dunk already.

and?

Quote

There accomplished athletes.

oh really? they all have multiple nba championships? mvp status? hall of fame? etc?

what does already accomplished mean? being in the nba makes you accomplished? what if you're on the bench but still in the nba? what if you never win a title? what if you never make the allstar team?

seems to me you don't know what being an athlete is about? athletes are constantly trying to improve their game, but they get bad guidance in terms of power/speed. the majority of them spend all day in the BASKETBALL-gym working on their game, but then neglect the weightroom.

Quote from: adarqui on July 26, 2011, 02:27:52 pm

if you want to become a better athlete in a sport you need to:

1. improve skill in sport
2. improve overall fitness
3. minimize stressors (proper sleep, diet, etc)
4. improve relative strength in compound movements & strength in individual muscle groups, both specific/important to the sport
5. ...

here's a small example:

#1. basketball is a sport than needs power/quickness, but is dominated by actual skill & natural advantages such as height etc.. Improving power will result in improved vert/speed/first step quickness etc, which will have an undoubtedly positive effect on ones skill game.

#2. competitive shotput is dominated by power/strength. One cannot compete at the elite level simply by throwing the shot & improving technique. They instead need to work on technique while getting stronger in the weight room.

this is why people such as john stockton, steve nash, gary payton, or even player's like steve kerr can compete with athletes who are superior in the power/speed department, and even dominate them.. an example of a powerful point guard would be kevin johnson or derrick rose..

you're not going to find weak shot putters at the elite level... you will however, find weak basketball players at the elite level, in fact, many of whom can actually dominate the sport due to other aspects of the sport (reaction time, perception, decision making, skill) etc.

so, in a sport like basketball, you can get by, without dedicating your life to strength..

in a sport such as shotput, you cannot get by, without dedicating your life to strength..

if basketball players want to jump higher, run faster, and thus gain an edge on their competition, they need to dedicate their life to strength... instead, most dedicate their life to skill.. most people cannot dedicate themselves to both, so they will favor one over the other, but to become the best athlete you can possibly be, both issues need to be addressed.

pretty much anyone in the nba, except the players who are already freaks (not many), could increase their athleticism considerably.. these players aren't going to achieve considerable gains in athleticism by utilizing exercises that do not address maximal strength & thus explosive strength... you aren't going to improve max strength on a bosu ball or using kettlebells or using balance exercises or using secret society medball exercises.

pc

So you would agree with me when I say that a considerable amount of NBA players can really enhance their games if they worked on strength/power/athleticism without neglecting skill work?  And that if the trainers didn't have to worry so much about injuring star players, and they made them do real work in the weight room, many great players will become even greater?

yup 100%

So I am a HUGE NBA fan, and I always seem to notice they're training habits as well.  For one, they train way different than most of us do here on adarq.org.  Obviously this is the case because their training is more injury-prevention/endure a grinding season/have a longer career-oriented.

But I see other things too.  Like this summer, the skinny as hell Brandon Jennings says he will do boxing and martial arts to get stronger.  Now If I was a new guy to come here on adarq.org and I said, I am a quick and athletic basketball player and I need to get stronger as it is holding me back, I don't think anyone here would advise me to do boxing or martial arts, and I wouldn't advise anyone with that either.  Sure it'll help, but wouldn't a dedicated weight training routine be the best way?

boxing will get the upper body stronger, mma training will get the entire body stronger.. as far as increased muscle mass goes, neither will provide a large enough stimulus to pack on a decent amount of lean mass.. both will get you in very good shape, but neither will get your lower body MORE explosive needed for the game of basketball, except for very small gains resulting from increased overall fitness.

I also never see NBA players training for vert/athleticism, when it can help so much for some players.  And when I do see some doing lower body lifting, they leg press over squatting.  

you've never seen kobe squatting? there's video of him squatting and benching with chains..

but ya, for the most part, nba players do sissified training.

There are more examples but I cannot think right now.  I know these NBA players are athletically gifted, and it is not their job to know these things even though they THINK they know (example, Air Up There thinks jumping high is all abs, and no legs), but shouldn't these professional trainers the NBA organizations hire know what the fuck to do?  Or are they no different from the average personal trainer at 24 hour fitness who don't know jack shit neither?

P.S.  I know AUT is not an NBA player, but you get the idea.

AUT promotes "abs and stretching".

as for nba s&c coaches, they are more worried about injuring someone than making them better athletes.. if they injure a multi-million dollar athlete, they are gone.. that's why they don't do anything above "beginner level exercises" for the most part.. for example, they stick to physioball single arm db bench press rather than regular DB/BB bench press.. they do db squatting rather than barbell etc.. they do lots of balance/"functional training movements", some of which can be good for the ankles/knees/hip stability etc, but mostly are a waste of time.

if you want to see s&c coaches train basketball players, look at the collegiate level, not pro.. same goes for NFL.. collegiate s&c programs are worried about the program, and to give them a better chance at winning in their conference/whatever, they need to actually employ REAL s&c methods, such as squat, bench, hang clean, lunges, rows/pullups etc.. the same goes for NFL..

NFL athletes who are serious about their performance, go to facilities in the off-season.. they do not train with their club.. they seek out training at dedicated performance facilities who push the envelope.. so the same applies for nfl as with nba, s&c coaches dealing with multi-million dollar athletes simply do not "risk" utilizing more effective training methods, instead they stick to "functional (bullshit) training" and machines for the vast majority of the trainers.

alonzo mourning for example would workout after every game, he was pretty jacked.. same with ben wallace.. those guys love lifting.. the point is though, that to lift the way they wanted, with actual exercises, they need to do it on their own.. otherwise, they just get the league-fluff.

nba/nfl s&c is more about "injury prevention" and maintenance of abilities, not pushing the envelope to create freaks.. collegiate & private s&c is where they push the envelope.

a good example of this, is those records they keep for each lift/test/whatever on the walls in collegiate/private s&c facilities...... ie, the bench record, squat, p-clean, whatever records.. they have the record, date, and by whom achieved it.. you don't see that on the pro level..

pc