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lol, here are the sprint vids.

My coach timed me and got the following times for me:

30m
   1. 4.09
   2. 4.11 (I had 3 min rest only before this run to record on different recorder)

60m
    1.  7.85 (Coach didn't manage to get a time, so I timed it myself from the video) 

I'm happy, that I got these times from a accurate test.

30m First Test
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRdyBM62gY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKRdyBM62gY</a>

30m Second Test
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlplv6ZqMEE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zlplv6ZqMEE</a>

60m First and Only Test
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yshoykve264" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yshoykve264</a>

I didn't analyse my form yet, so don't know what to expect regarding it, hopefully its ok and especially the leverage of my arm travelling back, I hope it is going back far enough.

My coach has recommended I do on every third day do the same warm up with vest on and then do timed sprints after without it on, hand timed, as I can't get it recorded every time. I will do this for the next 2 weeks and see if I see improvement in my time.

pc!

Great job.  Don't worry about the form.  Focus on the fact that you look way faster and you are way faster.  You dropped a second off your 60m in a few years.  Very impressive. 

Form is fine.  Start practicing from a three point stance so you don't have to rock back and learn to make power from a static position.  Especially for short sprints.  And now go get more powerful.  Your fast.  You just need an engine now. 

Also, why sprint in baggy pants?  That's not going to help and it makes analyzing form very hard...

Todday, i think we're on the same page. I wanna settle on 77kg, anything less than that is too light/weak/frail .. anything above 79kg is to heavy to justify. I'm gna keep cutting til i have a stable 77.0kg reading daily. Maintain that for a long ass time while maximising squat ratio. I have a more detailed plan which looks something like this ...

I agree that we aren't as far off as I make it seem.  It's less that we are in total disagreement and moreso that you insist on being hyperbolic in your description of how fat you are and how extreme your refeed/binges are.  Overall your making progress and that's what matters...  However...

My thoughts are from here to step the 6x2 tuesday squat workout by 2.5kg or 2kg or whatever i can manage with the goal of getting it to 6x2x140kg at which point if my bodyweight is 77kg i can add creatine and surplus calories to the mix. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. 

I do believe that the training philosophy espoused above is non optimal for an athlete at your level.  I would describe you as a moderately well trained, lean, drug free, relatively strong athlete.  Sure you haven't maximized and sucked out every drop of your strength potential for your bodyweight yet... But your also no beginner.  Beginners can easily have goals that you list above, the more advanced you are the harder it is...   Basically when we think of adding weight to a compound movement that we are already efficient in (like the squat), there are three ways we can manipulate our diet while try to get stronger.

1) The "Rippetoe method".  Eat everything.  Squat.  You will get huge, strong, and fat.  You can lose the fat later.  This method works.  Really well.  Surplus calories are better than steroids.  It's great if you want to be a heavyweight lifter, hate being small, etc.  Maybe useful for hardgainers starting out who just can't seem to get unstuck at a plateau.  But personally I don't like it for athletes  I don't like it for you.  Athletes who do this always end up getting strong and losing speed/jumping-ability while they get huge... Then they go through the battle of having to lose a lot of weight to try to "uncover" their gains from the new strength - which should in theory work...  If everything is perfect.  In practice it looks more like: Max squat of 300 at 175.  Go  crazy and get a max squat of 410 at 220 by eating your ass off.  Your squat to bw ratio goes up.  But you can't jump.  Now cut.  Get stuck at 200lbs and unable to get below it without your squat getting poundage shrinking quickly...  Make a few errors, some injuries, and don't do it perfectly and you end stuck at 200lbs squatting around 350 and being a slower athlete who can't jump as high...

2) The "maxent" method.  Constantly try and lose weight.  Make gains while cutting as a fat beginner.  Become an intermediate athlete.  Still make goals that involve new PRs at lower bodyweights.   Totally possible.  Not most efficient. 

3) The middle ground.  First get lean.  Whatever, lean is for you.  You wanna be sub 80kg, so you make a goal of hitting 77kg.  Try to maintain your squat when you reach that goal.  When you are lean and have achieved this...  Stop thinking about your bodyweight AND start thinking about your diet!  Is this hard?  Yes.   But it's a million times more efficient.  You get to 77kg.  You now eat a consistent diet (no binges!) that will allow you to get stronger.  You fuel yourself at a level optimal for you.  You tell yourself, I am going to eat at approximately maintenance level +5% and I am going to achieve a squat of 150kg in 12 weeks of this.  I'm not going to binge at all.  I'm also not going to look at the scale.  Most importantly I'm not going to binge, see 82kg and then fast for two days to get back to 79 kilos.   I'm eating might fuel level of optimum nutrition and getting stronger.   Twelve weeks later you will squat 150kg.  How much will you weight?  Maybe 78kg?  Maybe 79-82kg?  Can't be sure, but you will weight the optimal amount for adding functional strength quickly.  After this you can do this again.  Eventually this to will stop working if your a natural athlete and squat strength is only increasable with method (1) - at this point most athletes are strong enough though.   If you do this multiple times and get a stronger squat at 85kg, you can always cut weight - but not with a goal of also gaining strength - with a goal of maintaining at squat single at some level (90-95%) of max.  It's basically what kingfish does and it's the most successful way to get relative strength as a drug free athlete.  Slow small gains in weight while pushing up lift strength and volume (not bulking), maintenance of low volume (singles) in lifts while cutting...

Note:

The squat numbers I used were all made up.  Don't be offended if your maxes far exceed my examples!   Sorry for the length of the post - basic premise is this.  You have a goal to increase your strength AND volume while you plan to also lose weight.  I understand it's not much.  A few kg in bw and a few kg more in squat...  However, making a plan to be able to do greater volume at more weight in the future while weighing less than you currently do now is usually not the most productive way to plan for the longterm... That's it.

9/9 fri
unplanned rest day.. Really busy day :/

9/10 sat

Jumps
SVJ x 25: max touch 31.5" REPEATABLE
2-step (RL) DLRVJ x 15: max touch 32.5"
3-step (LRL) DLRVJ x 25: max touch 33.5"
4-step (RLRL) DLRVJ x 15: max touch 34"
5-step (LRLRL) DLRVJ x 20: max touch 34.5" (only got one, couldn't repeat for camera)

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74dWjDqjMFw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74dWjDqjMFw</a>

ALSO, This is 100 jumps in 1 session. That's a volume PR lol. I must have been out there for at least 1.5 hours

Looking like a far more athletic version of Adam Morrison...

a wholly unremarkable 11.93 for 100m. Only my second ever electronically timed race. I intend to kick the crap out of that time.

Did you have any reason to believe you would kick the crap out of the time?   Dont get bogged down in times at this level.

Quote from: T0ddday on September 01, 2016, 09:21:52 am

^^^ The sad thing is that while I don't blame Bolt he probably just reversed the stereotype such that every 5'6"  would be Trindon Holiday lookalike will now be doubted when they try to run the hundred because they just aren't tall enough...

I mean I get its human nature but the medias need to have things be obviously and simple is really part of the problem... The two most frustrating new stereotypes Bolt has created are:

1) Hes a poor starter cause his he is so tall.

2) His advantage is his long legs. 

Both totally false. 

1) He has the fastest recorded 30m, 40m, 50m, etc. Of all time (2009).  He may appear to be a poor starter because of the stupid automatic dq after false start rule... Since it bit him in 2011 Bolt has decided to be extremely cautious - I mean why risk any chance of a false start when you can win without a good start...  The new rule just ensures that faster people will "have" poor reaction times simply because the faster you are the more the risk reward ratio increases...

2) Bolt is fast because he has far more power than anyone else.  At high speeds our stride is hardly limited by our leg length - in fact he performs worse in the one part of the sprint where long legs provide the biggest advantage - the back straight in the 200m.  After already accelerating around the turn and fatigue setting in longer legs can start to make a minor difference in this part of the race (just watch Christophe Lemetrie long leg (his are longer than Bolt btw) his way to a bronze in rio)... Does Bolt have a great back 100?  No.  Yohan Blayke has run the fastest split of all time in the back stretch.  Number two is still Michael Johnson.  Bolt owns the record in the first hundred.  By a ridiculous margin.  He runs a faster turn than anyone else!  The turn! The part of the race where long legs don't provide a disadvantage if anything!  He is just simply more powerful than anyone else.

Maybe stereotypes get created partially cause we need to explain away others greatness because of our own ego?

Maybe it's just hard to say Bolt is simply the most powerful sprinter ever and I'm in awe of how much faster he is than me so instead I say "yeah he fast cause he has a huge advantage on me cause of his long legs".

Fine.  Maybe we need this.  I get it.  But let's just agree to make our excuses based on reasons that are illogical enough that they won't stick.  Bolt is faster than me cause he has access to magical yams.

Two words- sports analysts. Not sure how bad it is in the US but assuming it's way worse than here given the population, media outlets, number of sports televised, etc. Here we have complete channels dedicated to one sport and they over analyse the shit out of it and in the end create reasoning which ends up being mistaken for fact and is then regurgitated by others in an attempt to sound mildly intelligent.

Not really relevant but anyway-
I was having a conversation with my son the other day about being able to say "I don't know". With the amount of questions kids ask us as parents and ask other children the temptation is so high to create and answer of half truths or google it. What we don't actually do is say I don't know and then wonder what it might be.  I've done this a few times with him recently and it has led to some wonderful conversations with some highly inaccurate hypotheses and some accidentally accurate thoughts.

Interesting to hear you talk about sports analysts!  I thought that was an American problem. 

I can't imagine it being worse than here...  We have a guy called Bob Costas that basically announces the Super Bowl, World Series, olympics, etc.  Basically if it's important he is on it and providing narratives so it makes sense to everyone.  On one hand he is talented because he makes casual fans become more interested in all the stories he tells, but on the other hand it's like wtf your the expert on every important sporting event?  And the stories he tells are interesting but not true!

Interesting how similar Australian culture sounds in some ways to American culture...  Over here not only do we have terrible sports analysts but we also have far too much statistics.   It can get a little ridiculous when they say things like "only 25% of teams down 2-1 who lost the first and third game of a series and had home court and had a record winning less than 59 games the previous year have come back to win."

Then you realize there have only been four instances of this and the statistic is worthless... But they always have a million stats for fans to muddle over rather than just enjoying the game and the fact that nobody knows who will win!

Slightly unrelated but I can't stand ESPN for the most part and have no problem with their demise. I really only wish for ala carte purchasing of sports games and anything that gets us closer to that rather than tv deals is good for fans.  ESPN is also the male equivalent to watching reality shows about the kardashians...  I know a lot of guys that give women shit for watching that kinda stuff on tv but then they watch ESPN.  There is a show on ESPN where four sports reporters all compete in a sport/game where they talk about sports and earn points and are eliminated if their arguments are weak, in the end the last one standing gets to rant about his sports team for some amount of time.  It's literally a sport about arguing about sports... If that doesn't show that makes are the stupider of the sexes I don't know what does...

Quote from: T0ddday on September 05, 2016, 01:54:29 pm

Quote from: maxent on September 05, 2016, 11:27:01 am

Quote from: T0ddday on September 05, 2016, 11:10:49 am

Quote from: maxent on September 05, 2016, 05:35:30 am

sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

---

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

It explains why i struggle to get eg a windmill, cos my airtime is low i don thave enough time to go thru the motions. That was my working theory anyway! Even on loewr rims i cant land a windmill

Lol. Maybe.  Or maybe you just really suck at the movement.  I can get drop step windmills on 10ft, I can do a clean 720 on a 8.5 foot rim but I can't even come close to doing BTL off two feet...   Coordination for these things is weird, when I try BTL I bring my arms down and just kill my jump before I even get off the ground, maybe you do the same w your windmills - once you learn to bring the ball up on your rise and then circle it with split legs it gets a lot easier.  Airtime helps of course but I think the coordination is really the problem.

Quote from: T0ddday on September 05, 2016, 11:10:49 am

Quote from: maxent on September 05, 2016, 05:35:30 am

sorry, insta is annoying, i cant upload directly from pc,cant be bothered with all of that, will just use youtube..

---

edit, so this is what i put up in my log
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4WgRtg0veg

and this one was done a week later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnrfyIKbyAU
also have the unweighted dunks after that;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0HDbet8omU

i did heavier than that the following weeks but i dont have that on tape. a nd the last set of weighted dunks i have on tape (days before the comp) but it's full HD and the vid is like 1-4gb .. will take too long to upload unless i edit but i dont have any decent editor available (linux is a ghetto).

Hmm... Well I guess dunks are sort of a hard measure to use.  You seem to be pretty proficient at it.  The most important question is... How high are you jumping? 

What it looks like is with 95kg your hardly getting up.  To my eye it looks like about 24 inches off the ground.  Going back to your natural weight of 75kg you would expect a 1.25 boost or a 32 inch jump - maybe you jumping more like 33 in the dunks...

That's what it looks like... What's the actual height?  I mean if I recall you only like 6'2 but honestly the air space in the videos looks off... I mean I don't know guys in that height range that can dunk like you, like the stretch style.   I guess it just requires you to measure arm length and actual vertical...

yep by comp time i was really profficient. i cud literally jump out of bed cold and do a submax dunk without even trying. i have long thought my dunking is overspecialised, i cud prob benefit from trying different things to mix things up like approaching from the other side of the rim, changing plant, doing SL dunks etc. Just to improve my athleticism. My reach is 98" barefoot. it goes up a little with shoes. but ya im not jumping high on weighted dunks above 85kg. around 95-100kg im llucky to land one, most are misses. but. i think i get more air and more normal form when using about +10kg than i do with more than that. my new weight vest (i left the old one in brisbane after the comp) only goes up to 10kg so that shud keep my addiction to adidng weight in check

Ah ok.  That makes more sense.  Your reach in shoes has you only about 20" away from the rim.  And with your palming ability your really able to dunk without getting up...  I agree that your probably right that being 100kg is far too heavy for you but I wouldn't be surprised if 10kg is overkill as well...  Remember the similarity between running and sprinting that separates elite from the rest - accelerating a light body...  Best results are around 10% of bw for most people and you are lighter than 100kg.

At your level I would just use the formula I mentioned.  Vbw/bw * vested_jump = predicted-jump.  Use the most weight you can until the drop off in predicted jump falls.  Like if your max jump is 35" and your predicted jump w 5kg,6kg,7kg,8kg is 32,33,33,31... You would want 7kg and train to push this up past 35". 

If you are already at the point where a heavy vested jump puts your predicted jump far past your actual jump.... the DO NOT use the weight vest!  Your are so far to the right on the strength curve that you are wasting your time with vested jumps.  This is where I assumed you were but there's a good chance I'm wrong in light of your reach being as high as it is... But if you are here you really don't need to build this motor - making it more powerful when you already don't know how use it will set you back in the long term...  I had a good discussion about this with one of the elite coaches and he talked about how rare this is (most sprinters and jumpers are weak and extremely efficient) but how if you find someone here you need to get them to harness their power asap.

Quote from: T0ddday on September 04, 2016, 03:14:44 pm

Quote from: maxent on September 04, 2016, 11:20:13 am

Prob important when you're at the cusp of breaking into new territory. Maybe landing your first dunk or windmill or whtaever. But in my experience, there is a difference in where the weight is. Ive done weighted dunks at ~220lb while weighing ~165lb. But if i put on some ankle weights (around 3kg i think), it changes things a lot more than the weight vest did. It's hard to explain though unless you try it out. I think you do want your feet to be as light as possible.

First of all...

That's impressive as fuck. 

Doing 220lb dunks at 160 is ridiculous.  I don't know how many inches a dunk is for you but if I assume you need a 30 inch jump to dunk... Then taking off the weight should give you a 41 inch jump... How far is this from truth?

As far as where the weight is... Your totally right, I don't like ankle weights for this reason.  However any added weight should give a minimum boost of weight_vest/bw * weighted jump.  That's where I get the 41 inch jump from.  This is the least you should gain though... Weight hurts in different places besides this.  If your not getting this gain when you take the weight off you need to do "over speed" work.  Basically what sprinters do when we tow them.  Harder to set up for a jump but possible w bands.  Basically you need to work on producing them same force for a "lighter" (accelerating body).

IMO the most challenging weights are thigh weights.  Weight there just kills the jump.

Damn, didnt you see the vid? pretty sure i put it up haha. I will put it up on my insta @maxentr0py .. check it out later today. It wasn't that special tbh cos form to get a +25kg dunk is like the form when you are straining to get that first tip dunk .. but with me when i get it i was hitting the rim so hard it went thru super hard. take the vest off and dunks become submaxier but so what, not like im getting my head at the rim.. i dont know, i dont think there is much benefit to training at those extremes. i think the best weighted dunks were the ones i got around +5-7kg where i was getting a good workout without changing form too drastically.

I can't tell which are you videos are weighted on ig.  They all look unweighted. 

As far as the optimal weight to use, it's not really an amount in weight.  The optimal amount of weight to use is as much as possible where you can still jump high.  You basically just figure out where you are in carryover to maximize gains.  So, if I load up with 220 lbs of weight I might jump 10 inches.  Then if I take the vest off and create the same power..... I'll just 20 inches.... I can already jump higher than 20 inches.  So, that means just having that much weight inhibits my ability to make power - not worth it. 

However your talking about dunking with 60 lbs of weight on... It's hard to tell how high you get up on your dunks so it would be better if you knew how high you were actually jumping.  What's your actual max jump?  For me I use an absolute maximum of 20lbs reisistance because anything less and I can't jump high enough to dunk, w 20lbs on a I can get 36" on a good day and I can count on that boost to get my 20% more without vest...

Even if your a couple inches taller and your jumping only 34" to dunk... If your 220 w resistance and 160 without... There really is no way you can't hit 40".  I just don't get it.  60 lbs additional to a 160 dude and he still jumps 34??? That guy jumps 40!