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Messages - entropy

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16
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 08, 2014, 11:38:39 pm »
Day #11 Food and Activity log (of 21 days)
Bodyweight: 74.65kg/164.6lb (LPR)
Fasted duration: 24hr
Fast broken: 2230
Fast started: 2245
Total steps: 5200 fasted



^ New bodyweight LPR again! I'm on a nice roll there. Skinfolds diminished again, there is less and less to pinch every day. So for some reason i've decided upon the goal of 161lb by the end of this 21 day cycle. I may not achieve it, or what's more, i may be satisfied with a bodyweight much higher than that, but we'll just see how it goes.  Also day 11 is just past the halfway point!
Activity log:
1hr slow incline TM walk (2.5km/hr @ 8 inc)
Day's Eats:


17
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 08, 2014, 10:32:16 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on September 08, 2014, 11:48:12 am
man i wasn't saying, "but you're not fat, you're just dysmorphic." i was saying, well exactly what i said: your bf% calculations are unreliable so why not pick a different target. like: clearly defined six pack even in indirect light.

Sorry, i get ya now. Just been a bit reflexively defensive lately having to constantly reassert my position. I agree with you though. I think implicitly I always knew it would be some objective measure I would be able to confirm as opposed to an ethereal fictitious bodyfat% measurement. Think jiggle test is the way to go. Thanks.

Quote from: Coges on September 08, 2014, 08:41:52 pm
Quote from: LBSS on September 08, 2014, 11:48:12 am
man i wasn't saying, "but you're not fat, you're just dysmorphic." i was saying, well exactly what i said: your bf% calculations are unreliable so why not pick a different target. like: clearly defined six pack even in indirect light.

I think for Entropy it would be clearly defined buttocks since that's where he stores most of his fat  :trolldance:

No joke, I think that might even be the best suggestion i've come across. I expect to get my slimguide calipers next week from Amazon, just before my birthday. So from then on, i'll be taking daily skinfold mm measuments of chest, abs, lower back, hips AND butt. I will log the sum of these in my training log. But the one that really matters is the last one - i just have to figure out a way to reliably and consistently measure it because that's key. Haha. Ofc once i've got the measurement technique down and my bodyweight is stable, i wont need to take daily measurements but i'll still take them on workout days or whatever.  Maybe the last workout of the week.

18
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / chasing athleticism
« on: September 07, 2014, 11:53:45 pm »
Day #10 Food and Activity log (of 21 days)
Bodyweight: 75.1kg/165.6lb (LPR)
Waist: 30.5" (PR)
Fasted duration: 21hr
Fast broken: 1930
Fast started: 2230
Total steps: 5600 fasted, 7255 total



^ New bodyweight LPR! I also look visually leaner, i wont say 10% but edging closer to it. Maybe i'm under 12% now?  Who knows. This cut has been SO easy so far. I wonder when it will get difficult. Maybe because i'm so focused on gettng it right, it has gone perfectly.  By the way while that's the first time i've got a waist measurement in the 30.0"s, i'm not putting much faith in it because waist measurements are kinda useless at the best of times, contigent on how tight the tape was etc. I put more faith in skinfolds and jiggle test which tells me there has def been an overnight change which is worth most to me.
Activity log:
1hr fasted slow incline TM
Training:
FBS 3x100
FS 1x107.5 (injury)
BS 6x102.5, 6x105
BP 3x77.5
WCU 2x97.5, 3x95
CRL 5x37.5, 5x42.5

Squat notes:
So yesterday i hurt my back while tying shoe laces. I wasn't sure to even train today but warmups felt aight and it wasn't bothering the injury. My warmup sets with 100kg felt good and looked good, piston like. I thought there is no harm going for a FS triple of 107.5kg. And on the first rep, it broke my back :( Prob lay off front squats til im healed up.
Day's Eats:


Ate mo protein to help heal my back injury.

19
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / chasing athleticism
« on: September 06, 2014, 10:41:20 pm »
Day #9 Food and Activity log
Bodyweight: 75.6kg/166.7lb
Fasted duration: 24+hr
Fast broken: 2206
Fast started: 2230
Total steps: 7000 fasted, 7677 total



Ok there we go, bodyweight is renormalising :) My goal is to get to ≤74kg by friday morning (usually my lightest day). Of course if i get there before that i won't mind either lol. But the idea is i want to be in a fighting chance of attaining 73kg by end of this 3 week cycle, and the only way that's possible is if i'm real close to 74kg by end of week 2.
Just a note - I ABSOLUTELY NAILED yesterday's diet and training! I woke up today feeling fresh, HOT (as in TEMP = GOOD, ELEVATED METABOLISM) and feeling good. So i'm just going to try to repeat exactly what i eat yesterday EVERYDAY and see if it keeps working. Maybe that extra half scoop of protein helped? Or maybe it was the 2 giant sized eggs i ate (800g dozen as opposed to usual 700g dozen?). Idk. Lets stick with it! I may also be adapted to ketosis now - and i may possibly be IN ketosis too. Who knows, it doesn't matter, i'm gonna ride this out :)
Day's Eats


Activity log:
Did some slow incline treadmill walking. Heard that's what hte old school bodybuilders used to get lean back in the day. It was aight i guess. I did about 35 mins in 2 sessions of 25 and 10.
Injury log:
This is embrassing. I tweaked the fuck out of my back (muscle) while tying my shoelace yesterday. Hurts a lot :/ It was a combo of wearing tights awkwardly and bending over on the chair to put on my shoes. Sucks!

20
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / chasing athleticism
« on: September 05, 2014, 09:53:47 pm »
Day #8 Food and Activity log
Bodyweight: 76.55kg/168.76lb
Fasted duration: 13hr (TBU)
Fast broken: 2110
Fast started: 2150
Total steps: 6725 (fasted), 7255 total



^ prob the biggest post refeed rebound i've ever had! or maybe it just seems that way and i haven't really observed very carefully. idk, cool!

You get leaner just before a refeed and the next day you're much fatter again :( I bet this stops happening when you're lean enough that you'll look fairly lean even after a refeed. oh well. Weathers a bit iffy today, was planning on going for a run/walk and getting some glycogen depletion in, not really super important with my 24hr fasts but would have been nice. Also half considering going to the basketball court and doing some dunks and practice skills but not sure i can be bothered

Day's Eats


and the whole thing literally on a plate:


(as usual not logging zero calorie foods like sagh or salsa)

Activity log:
I did go down to the basketball court, was there about an hour and half. Did a bunch of dunks and just practiced ball handling etc.

21
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 05, 2014, 09:50:52 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on September 05, 2014, 01:04:34 pm
one does not necessarily care about bf% when one is cutting. that's my point. YOU care, and i was suggesting that maybe you could find something else to care about or use as the major benchmark, for the reasons i described.

lol i only care about IN SO MUCH as ITS A GOAL. Not like i know what my current bf is, or what it was a week ago. It's just the target im working towards. One needs a target. On the page though i define it as a bodyweight goal (74kg for this cycle, then perhaps revised to 73.5kg and finally 73kg) but i know that bodyweight is just a reading on teh scale, what im really interested in, is carrying the minimal amount of bodyfat practically as possible so i can do an efficient mass/strength/power gain phase afterwards. I was saving a really good greg nichols article to put up later but there might never be a better time than this. Everyone shud read it.

Please consider the environment and save the but you're not fat, you're just dismorphic knejerk posts. I quote L.McD on this:
Quote
Even at 10% bodyfat, i'm not happy. I know I'm lean, healthy, all of that. My doctor is thrilled and thinks I'm nuts to want to be leaner; so does my mom. They may not be wrong. But at 10% bodyfat, I'm simply not satisfied. The more athletic readers know what i'm talking about. Other readers may just think i'm nuts and obsessive. They may not be wrong either.

except i'm not even 10% yet. I probably would be satisfied with it if i was though.

Quote from: stuckintheaiir on September 05, 2014, 01:44:10 pm
Shoutout to the makki di roti haha!

word! haha.

22
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 05, 2014, 11:13:05 am »
Quote from: LBSS on September 05, 2014, 10:20:31 am
mine, such as it is, is basically all my lower back, butt, and lower abs (classic male bicycle tire plus butt). i am in the 10-12% range, if i had to guess: clearly visible abs, a bit veiny.

interesting responses so far.. i wasn't expecting either of those answers!

Quote
i think your focus on bf% is misplaced, because it's not something you can reliably or consistently measure. or, to be more precise, not something that you trust or self-perceive in the same way from week to week or month to month. why do you care what your bf% is in the first place?

easily explained :-
one cares about bodyfat %when one is cutting
one cares about lifts/times/inches jumped etc when one is bulking/accumulating/intensifying/.

there is a time and place for either but i'll be tracking my bodyfat even once i stop cutting.

Quote
your waist is small, you're close to your goal weight after consistent progress in that direction. you're a bit dysmorphic so the mirror test isn't necessarily a good one but maybe post a couple pics so you can get a second opinion on how lean you actually look?
yeah im close but not quite there yet. maybe 2-5kg away, exactly, remains yet to be determined. i'll keep cutting til im satisfied im lean (10% legit full six pac and lean chest, lower back and legs). my waist shud be around 31" around the belly button or just under it. Whereas if i measure at the widest its prob still above 32.5" or so. im just being consistent with the site i use though.

after cutting i'll be tracking skinfold mms consistently. no i wont be converting those to a bodyfat %, it's not necessary or accurate and not worth it except as a single number summary if i take multiple skinfolds from different sites (maybe i will, maybe just one or two sites, idk). i've ordered a slimguide caliper to replace my pos prob fake accumeasure tonight.

im not currently interested in opinions based on photos, mainly because im still too fat to really pin down (fuzzy area between 15-12%). my lower back is still fat (not like mutombo's avatar), and my ass has at least 2kg of adipose clearly so im not in danger of hitting 10% just yet. may post photos much later but prob not, there isn't really a point, ill know when i get there.. i pinch my waist regularly (usually in the mornings) and the skinfolds are consistently getting smaller so i know im on the right track.

23
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 05, 2014, 02:32:08 am »
thanks chris! would like to hear more replies

Quote
If I had to guess (and its a slightly educated guess lol)


^ this is the best test, forget dexa scams. get in front of the mirror (full length if you have one) and jump around.

24
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / chasing athleticism -- W1D3
« on: September 05, 2014, 02:02:16 am »
Day #7 Food and Activity log
Bodyweight: 75.6kg/166.7lb
Waist: <32"
Fasted duration: 17hr
Fast broken: 1320
Fast started: 2100
Total steps: 6750 fasted; 6750 total (TBU)

Training
FBS 3x100
FS 1x110, 1x112.5, 1x117.5, 0Fx120
BS 1x110, 6x105, 6x112.5B(LPR), 6x110
BP 5x75, 5x72.5, 6x70
WCU 5x90, 5x92.5, 5x90

Day's Eats


kinda lost it by the end with those tim tams otherwise it was near enough the perfect carb reload in terms of keeping fat around 50g. All good, for next time i know to organise a lowfat dessert! By the way, how are 3 biscuits so high in fat? i noticed most sweets have excessive fats in them. Looking for a good high treat which has low fat. Let me know if you know of one..
Carb refeed day! Got in a nice ~7k steps in before breaking fast so i'm good for a bit of extra fat loss for the day.

25
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 05, 2014, 01:51:35 am »
Quote from: acole14 on September 05, 2014, 01:16:19 am
Quote from: entropy on September 04, 2014, 10:57:56 pm
Quote from: acole14 on September 04, 2014, 10:50:53 pm
Might be a naive question: have you ever had your bf% proerly checked by a professional using a bod-pod, hydrostatic weighing, DEXA scan? You seem to be basing your whole training life around estimates from the mirror test. If you don't care about aesthetics and are just trying to hit a number for athletic purposes, I don't see why you wouldn't want to know exactly what that number was. You'd only need to do it once to get a better gauge of what how your perception matches up with reality.

Bod pod won't work, dexa wont work, neither will skinfolds. The only one which would work for me is hydrostatic. The reason all of the former would fail is because they depend on models which are based on the average person. I'm an outlier. So for example skinfolds will underestimate my bodyfat because I hold most of my bf in my lower body, so they'd say compared to most men, you're really lean. But that's because they're not taking a skinfold of my buttocks lol. But in reality my bodyfat storage patterns are atypical of the normal male storage patterns. This is the same reason all those methods won't work - dexa works the same way, it uses a model with equations based on a population.

I have no idea where i'd have to get a hydrostatic measurement from here though. Not that it matters, won't change anything, i'm still going to have to keep cutting for a while yet!

Well that all sounds reasonable. Although, if your fat distribution is uneven, why wouldn't the 7 or 12 point test with calipers work? An average of all your fat zones must give you something pretty close. You could get it done by a professional, I know physios at footy clubs do it all the time.  I guess I'm still having trouble comprehending that a 6'4'' trained male at 74kgs doesn't have ~10% bf.

Good question. Lets take a look at the 7 sites:


Of those my skinfolds would all be pretty small right now at ~75.5kg (i'm not 74 yet by the way!). Holding a lot of bodyfat in the lower body, specifically in my buttocks, none of those sites would correspond to that area of storage. The thigh one would not be helpful in this case cause i don't have a lot of fat in my thighs anyway.

I'm sure the female equations would put more weight on the thigh skinfold measurement and in the case of most women that probably correlates well with hips and buttocks. It's sub optimal anyway, you shud definitely make one of the sites for women be the buttocks. My thigh measurement does not correlate well at all with my behind.  I'm somewhere in between the two types! Just out of curiousity, can some of you lean guys chime in and say how you hold your bodyfat? I don't imagine any of you could be in a twerking video but i could l,  easily.

I did have a 7 point test done a few years ago. Twice actually, with a year apart. Both times it came back as 25% bodyfat (at a bodyweight of 100kg). So that was bullshit.


26
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 04, 2014, 09:46:21 pm »
It's becoming apparent that I may be a lot fatter than I initially anticipated. To achieve the goal in my sig, i may well need to get deep sub 70kg/155lb. I'm not sure there is much to be gained from attaining such an extreme bodyweight. Most imporantly though, it does mean I have to revise my notion of what is the ideal athletic bodyweight for me with a  <10% bodyfat  - it may well be around 70kg. That would imply I should not make too much of a fuss about getting from 75.5kg -> 73kg. I think it might even be a good goal to adopt for this cut cycle is to attain 73.0kg instead of the 74kg I had initially planned.

So that sucks to find out i'm so fat. But it does mean once i'm done cutting I could get very strong and still remain quite light since my 2014 squat PRs as multipliers of my ideal bodyweight are: >2xBW on FS,  ~2.3xBW backsquat and just shy of 2.5xBW on (belted) backsquats Those are amazing ratios, especially for a guy of my height, 6'4" in shoes.  2014 might just be the most exciting year of my life in terms of physical performance and training :)

Because I anticipate this post will engander disbelief and replies of 'but how can he cut??'  - i'm a really special snowflake, i wouldn't suggest the average guy my height needs to cut to 70kg. There's just something unique about my body that makes it so. At 75kg as I am, i still have plenty of fat left to lose - so it's not like i'm some skeleton right now. There is plenty of adipose left, esp on my buttocks, lower back, belly and chest. It makes sense that 70-72kg is where i might need to be, to get a full sixpac (this will probably come much earlier though) and lean legs, hips, chest and lower back. Like i've said before, i have female fat storage pattern, so i'll have a ripped torso much sooner than i will have ripped lower body. I'm not going to let that fool me into thinking i can stop cutting though. Abs dont mean shit until you are lean all over.

27
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / chasing athleticism
« on: September 03, 2014, 09:31:54 pm »
Day #6 Food and Activity log
Bodyweight: 75.3kg/166.23lb
Waist: <32"
Fasted duration: 24hr:30min
Fast broken: 2000
Fast started: 2025
Total steps: 8000 fasted, 9000 total.



Scale continues to move in the right direction. I'm pumped about getting close to breaking 75kg by weeks end.  If you ask me where I think my current bodyfat is, i'd have to say, idk, maybe under 13% but not quite as low as 12%? Mutombo a few weeks back estimated i'd be 12% at 74kg. I THINK that at 74kg, i'll probably be UNDER 12% but i'm not 100% sure, maybe 80% sure. I am on the right track though, my skinfolds are getting smaller every day. Like crazy, losing bodyfat like a boss. Plus playing ball, getting in shape, fitter and lifting well. Training and diet is dialled in perfectly right now. Good things are happening across the board.

Day's Eats

Activity log:
Will try to take a legit rest day today, no 12k steps. But still will try to get at least 5k. Update so I got 8000 fasted. Pretty good i guess, without trying too hard or anything and exhausting myself.
Summary: Today was a miserably diet day - guess my body is ready for a carb refeed; luckily i have one scheduled for tomorrow! Then leptin levels will rise and i'll have an easier time over the next coupla days. Maybe. We'll see.

28
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 02, 2014, 09:49:33 pm »
Day #5 Food and Activity log
Bodyweight: 75.4kg/166.23lb
Waist: <32"
Fasted duration: 16hr
Fast broken: 1310
Fast started: 1930
Total steps:  6799 (to be updated)



Progress has been incredible so far. I'm thinking 74kg is not to far away now and maybe 73.5kg shud be the goal. But of course i cud hit a wall or something in the next week or so.
Training
OHP 3x50, 2x57.5B, 3x55B, 5x53.5B, 5x52.5
ROW 6x60, 3x70, 8x57.5

FBS 3x100, 1x110
BS 3x115 (LPR), 2x120B (LPR), 3x117.5B(LPR)
CR 10x200 (LPR), 15x140 (LPR)

Squat notes:
Dieting really sucks when warmups with 60kg are hard :( But i managed some local PRs all the same. FS wasn't there though, maybe a mental thing but i could not rep 110kg for whatever reason although i must my heart wasn't really in it either.

Calf raises:
Been meaning to do regular calf work but i skipped last week. Forced myself to do them today though. Shits pretty tough right now. I did the set with 140 as a backoff, aiming to be explosive, for once got a calf burn.. haha.

Basketball notes:
It was our first game, the first 2 weeks were grading. We won! I had a good game, had some critical plays which helped win :) Got like 3 assists, 1 should have been an assist if not for a botched easy layup! And i scored as well and played ok D. My conditioning is STILL TERRIBLE. But 3 weeks in, i expect within weeks 4-6, i'll start to build at least average conditioning. More on this in a later post.
Day's Eats


29
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 02, 2014, 09:21:01 am »
Day #4 Food and Activity log
Bodyweight: 75.9kg/167.33lb
Waist: <32"
Fasted duration: 24hr 45min
Fast broken: 2045
Fast started: 2110
Total steps:  12000 (PR!)



^ so i'm doing real well so far. On track to break 75kg by the end of the week. Remember my goal for this cycle is to get to and under 74kg/163lb! I can't see me cutting as hardcore as this for very long, maybe 2 weeks max, after that i'll switch to a smaller caloric deficit if I still haven't broken through 74kg.
Some changes i'm making are going to try to hit 100g of carbs on training days. And do the bulk of my fasted walking earlier in the fast as opposed to the end. Just so there is less fatigue on the body.
Day's Eats

As usual, i'm not loging veges cause cals. But i can't describe how good sagh is right now. I cud eat it just for dessert it's that yummy. I ate like 2 cups today!  I actually finished my (one and only) meal at 2100 but went to wash dishes and then had the quest bar which i finished at 2110 making my feeding window from 2045-2110 as OCD me wanted to be done by 2100 in a 15 minute long window, but it's all good, prob doesn't matter just doesn't sound as neat.

30
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 02, 2014, 04:57:25 am »
Quote from: vag on September 02, 2014, 04:29:20 am
The previous days, was what you logged just the breakfast or you didn't eat anything else all day?
If so, don't you think that 600-800 kcal with under 70-90g protein is way beyond the cutting and deep into the starvation spectrum?
Yup, 24hr fast culminating in one meal of the day at 8pm. I'm not sure how many days I could pull off eating 600-800 a day but it does give a wicked caloric deficit and will get bodyweight down quickly. Is it ideal? Nope, but being fat is unideal too :P I mean short of using drugs, even dieting for a long ass time, these things will always be inconvenient no matter how you go about it. Early on a cut, while my metabolism is high, mood is good, i can get away with big deficits and less protein and (carbs/fats for that matter). But down the line it will be hard, maybe impossible to do it. Right now it's not so bad to eat less protein in particular. Later it will be necessary to eat more. I am playing it by feel. Also more protein seems to me a waste, when I was looking at cutting from 77->72kg. It means being fat enough and (low enough lbm given a lean mass of around ~70kg) that i don't need a lot. But as i get closer to 72kg, im gonna have to eat more protein for sure. I won't mind spending/eating 200g a day when im closer to the target bodyweight..

Quote
Or is it just a temporary sacrifice to get your bw at a given number in some ( very few ) given days? If so it is more understandable, although i still disagree.
Plans like yesterday's ( 1400 / 120 ) would serve you much better. But of course they need more time.
Protein is too low too, even 120g is still much below the 1g per BW lb.
I just wanna make the most of this honeymoon period. You get the best fat loss in the first week or two when metabolism is good, mood is good, motivation is heigh, strength and performance are still ok. Later that changes of course, and i will adapt my diet as required.

Quote
Just a few notes, i know you know your stuff and you are aware of all that, but sometimes the outside observer notices things you don't.
I get ya, you're right though, conventional wisdom would have me eating 300g of protein right now. Fuck conventional wisdom, i will tread my own path :)
update:
vag it occured to me why i dont agree with advice such as L.McD to eat 1.4-1.6g of protein per lb of bodyweight while cutting. For me that would mean eating 900 calories just from protein! So that means what else wud i be eating? Nothing! And so instead of eating normal meals and feeling good about my food, i would be dreading eating 200-250g of pure protein, even though it wud effectively be the same number of calories. I'm really not interested in eating so much protein, that's too much pain. I've done RFL  for like 6 months over my lifetime, it's not fun,i don't want to go through that shit again, especially when i dont have to!

I function much better with a minimum amount of carb in my diet (50g cap on rest days, 100g on training days). I function better with about 35-50g of fat a day. Why would i wanna fuck around with that. IT means either eating some awful protein only diet - or having a much smaller deficit, so that means i'd be eating say 1500kcal-2000kcal a day or something like that, which will mean cutting takes much much longer. I don't see the point of that. Would rather get this whole thing out of the way asap and then move on to productive training.

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