Adarq.org

Thank ya sir

np.. not too much good info in my response but, how's it feeling?

thanks raptor

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R55e-uHQna0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R55e-uHQna0</a>

haha!

Yooo, did you have tennis elbow at one point?

i've had it somewhat from playing tennis recently. I used to have elbow issues occasionally when I boxed, but, that was from triceps overpowering biceps. So for that, extra curling/bicep work helped alot. Other than that, icing several times throughout the day is a big help.

If so just curious how long it took you to rehab it?

Don't remember how long. Currently my elbow occasionally hurts because of tennis, more so after I play tennis. So it's actually tennis elbow. Not playing as much tennis lately has helped it alot.

I have a pain that just suddenly happened when I unracked the bb for benching this morning, extensions are fine but it aches when I flex the gunz.

damn sucks.

i'd ice the crap out of it and make sure you warmup really good, maybe even an extra hot shower with some direct hot water on the area prior to lifting too.

If you let it subside, ice the hell out of it, and don't re-aggravate it for a few sessions, it could disappear fairly quick.

pc!

 

From SSTM for Coaches! Verk's last book (epic book). Written verbatim, some grammatical weirdness is due to the authors.


(p87-88)

2.4.2 Shock Regime

The Shock Regime is characterized by a sharp, sudden force effort of muscles stretched by a former short, powerful impact against an external opposition. It is used to develop Explosive Strength, Reactive Ability, and Maximal Strength. This regime is characterized by a great training effect on the motor and neuromuscular system and on the central mechanism that regulates muscle contractile function. At the end of the 1960s, after having verified its efficacy in sport practice, it was adopted as special training regime for high-level athletes only.

The Shock Regime was thoroughly investigated in the Y.Verkhoshansky's research in 1960s.  The idea behind this method is in the use of the body (or training device) kinetic energy, accumulated in its free fall, to stimulate neuromuscular tension. The neuromuscular tension is provided at the contact after dropping from a specific measured height. The body landing causes a relatively short phase of amortization that causes a sharp 'shock' stretching of the muscles. That brings to two interrelated reactions of the neuro-muscular system:

- increasing the motor neurons stimulation intensity;
- creating an elastic potential of muscle tension.

That assures an increase in speed of the subsequent muscle contraction during the fast switching from pliometric (yielding) to miometric (overcoming) regime.

<skipped info regarding the use of the term pliometric, plyometric, etc>

According to Y. Verkhoshansky, also the use of the term 'pliometric', to define the Shock Method, is not correct; the principal training factor involved in this method is not simply the former muscles stretching in yielding regime, but rather the fast switching from sharp shock stretching to vigorous contraction. The simplest form of performing the exercise in the Shock Regime is the Depth Jump; a vertical double leg jump after a drop down from a carefully measured height.

this part is related to devices similar to the Plyo Swing, but still good info (not as much this next paragraph, but the one after):

A particular form of Shock Regime exercises for training different muscle groups is showing in Fig. 2.12 (picture weights on some pulley system falling on you and then you push them etc, heh). At the start, the weight is freely lowered, approximately 2/3 of the total range of movement, it is followed by a sharp downwards-upwards movement. The consequent fast twitching of the muscles, from yielding to overcoming regime, produce a vigorous acceleration of the load. In order to avoid injury it is necessary to provide limiting devices to block the movement of weight from going further than necessary.

In the preparation of the exercise execution, consider the following:

- The starting position is selected after taking into consideration the position of the body at which the maximum working effort is expressed in the competition exercises.
- The initial pathway should be minimal but sufficient to create the shock tension in the muscles.
- The size of the shock effect is determined by the overload weight and by the height from which it falls. The optimal combination of these two factors has to be empirically determined. However, preference should always be given to greater height rather than greater weight.
- The exercises in the Shock Regime should be executed only after an adequated warm up.
- The dosage for shock exercises depends on the 'quality' of execution and should not exceed 4 sets of 10 repetitions. When the athlete executes for the first time this exercise, than the dosage should not exceed 2-3 sets of 5-8 repetitions.

It must be eemphasized that the Shock Method is not to be taken lightly. Recently, mainly in the USA, variants of depth jumps have been presented by many authors. They often suggest exceeding the optimum dosage of Depth Jumps and the recommended height of the drop-down, as well as their use for low level athlete.

The Shock Method has an extraordinarily strong training effect on the nervous-muscular system; considerably stronger than any other natural method of stimulation of the contractile activity of the muscles. It is, therefore, inadmissible to exceed the optimum dosage and duration of Depth Jumps use in the training process, as well as the recommended height of the drop-down. The Depth Jumps have a strong training effect on the ligaments and joints and, consequently, it is necessary to:

- prepare the athlete in advanced, performing jumping and resistance exercises.
- study the technique of executing exercises in the Shock Regime, especially when the muscles are working in the push-off (take-off) after the drop down. This is not as simple as it may seem so initially;
- never use the Shock Regime when tired (when muscles are sore), when undergoing the treatment for injuries or in combinations of resistance exercises in different regimes.

The Shock Method is for high-level athletes. It should never be applied in the training of low-level athletes. for the latter, there are different and sufficiently effective SST (Special Strength Training) means.

It is incorrect to overestimate the possibilities of the Shock Method. It is only one of many ways of intensifying the work of the neuro-muscular system. Shock Method used alone, cannot replace all the other methods, it should be applied together with other means and methods and have a definite place in the SST system.



(p99-100)

3.4 Depth Jump

Depth Jump or Shock Method Jump is a very efficacious mean for developing Explosive Strength and Reactive Ability. At the present time this is a training means that is popular and its use is widespread all over the world. Although it has acquired many take-off execution variants, its main form is the vertical two leg take-off.

Despite its apparent simplicity, the eecution technique of Depth Jump is quite complex and in many cases, it is performed incorrectly. First of all, this can lead to an excessive load to the knee and tibio-tarsic joint, creating a trauma risk. Secondly, it can reduce the training effect of this exercise on the organism.

This is the reason why, at the beginning of Depth Jump use, it's worth illustrating the correct execution of this exercise. After, the athlete must not think about it: correct execution of this exercise will be obtained to the athlete's correct understanding of the motor trend of this exercise.

Drop Phase - The Drop Jump (stepping off an elevated surface) is an important particular of the tecnique that greatly influences the correct execution of the whole exercise.

The athlete must not step off with both the legs, but rather take a step forward with one leg and, at the beginning of the fall, bring the other leg forward, reuniting the two legs. The athlete must not bend the legs prior to stepping off the elevated surface (legs must be straight) and must not jump, but drop forward - the fall trajectory must be perpendicular to the ground.

Landing Phase - The athlete must land on both legs, on the ball of the feet, and then quickly lean back on the heels. Landing should be flexible with a substantial passage to cushioning and then to take off.

Cushing and Take-Off Phase - The passage from cushioning to take-off is very quick. Before the landing both the arms are put backward and at the moment of the take-off they should move upwards with a quick and powerful thrust. The cushioning and take-off phases should be executed as a single action with a powerful concentrated effort.

Flight after the take-off phase - To reach the highest point of flight after the take-off, the athlete should fix a point of reference (for example, a small flag) to reach for, trying to touch it with one or both hands. After the flying, the athlete should gently land on the balls of both feet with a flexible cushioning.

"Land with a spring and then fly as high as possible" - this should be the motor trend that the athlete should acquire for facilitating the correct technical execution of the exercise. The athlete's understanding of the Depth Jump motor trend determines the correct execution of all its phases and its training effect on the neuro-muscular system. The visual point of reference (small flag) is a very important element; it emphasizes the final goal of this exercise.

The Depth Jump has a very strong effect on the central nervous system and on the muscular-skeletal system. This is why it should be used, above all, in the training of well-prepared athletes and only after a preparation period that includes a substantial volume of bounding exercises and jumps with an overload.

The athlete should begin with low drop height, from 0.4 to 0.5m, and gradually work up to reaching the optimal height of 0.75m. He must not use other jump exercises after the depth jump, especially when tired or suffering muscle pain or traumas that have yet to heal.



(p102)

Improving Reactive Ability

1) Depth Jumps:
- For high level athletes the optimal height of a depth jump is 0.75m
- Athletes of high preparation- dosage in a training session should not exceed 4 series with 10 takeoffs.
- Athletes of lesser preparation - 2-3 series with 6-8 repetitions, with 60cm height.
- The 4-5 minute rest periods between series consists of jogging and relaxation and flexibility exercises.
- During the preparation period, the takeoff exercises after the depth jump should be executed in a fixed quantity, 2 times (at most 3 times), and only after the preparation of preliminary strength (with overload) and the preparation of jumps and bounds.
- During the competition period they represent an efficacious means to maintain the achieved level of special physical preparation. In this period one should include them in the training once a week and then reduce their training frequency to once every 7-8 days before competitions.




so that's from his book SSTM for Coaches.

Also, there's more info in this article on his site: http://www.verkhoshansky.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=bBhPjzgn%2B0A%3D&tabid=92&mid=426

Quote from: adarqui on December 16, 2015, 09:02:49 pm

So, DJ in my opinion (and experience) is a much more intense tool than pretty much all of the reactive work. Incorporating it as prep work or in lower volume should provide some benefit. I've seen studies claiming benefits in a variety of protocols, but not sure if some of those studies showed benefits simply from supplementing them into an existing program full of beneficial reactive work.

Also, He never mentions single leg bounding in the same area as depth jumps, ie a super method.. if it isn't, it has to be creeping close to that spectrum though, single leg bounds are very intense.

I don't think it should be prescribed high volume + high box height in combination with lots of other work. Then I think it would actually be very detrimental & extremely risky.

On another note, i've done sessions with TONS of reactive work. Overdoing it to the max, all kinds of different varieties of things. I don't recall any of that being as intense as 4x10 depth jumps from 30". 40 total DJ's from 30" had my CNS destroyed and next-day ligaments/tendons feeling wrecked. Performing DJ's towards the second half (reps 5-10) of a set required some serious focus; it felt on the level of a max effort single in terms of how I would have to dial in. I havn't experienced that from lower volume protocols such as 3x3, 3x5 etc.

Finally.. My body is afraid of depth jumping until it's actually prepared. I can go do double leg bounds, kangaroo hops, attempt single leg bounds right now with my severe lack of prepardness.. However, if someone told me to go perform some DJ's from 30" i'd have some serious inhibition. I'd actually be afraid to do it. I could do a depth drop from 30" but I wouldn't even try a DJ from 30" right now (without prepping for several weeks). I find that interesting.

Interesting stuff.  I guess my question more specifically is what do you think is unique to the depth jump that makes it more than reactive work, what specifically makes it a super method?

well in regards to depth jumps, the ability to overload using the height of the falling body is what makes it unique. In the case of sprinting, some form of overspeed while maintaining mechanics (downhill sprinting or some kind of wind tunnel, who knows heh!) would qualify as a super method because you're using the falling body as an added stimulus. we can increase the height of the box/drop (depth jumps) or decrease the angle (down hill sprinting). I need to see if there are any studies on downhill sprinting, I remember doing searches before but I forget the results. Verk mentions it on several occasions but most of his actual data revolves around DJ's.

Is there:

1) Something involved in stepping off the box?

nah

This seems unlikely.  If it isn't that then why would the following not be a super method:

Jump up grab the rim with two hands (32 inch jump for me).  Hang on rim.  Release and upon landing jump back up and grab rim again.  Would these rim grabs not be a super method?  If not, then why not??

right, that's basically a DJ. the only difference is you can't increase the height of the drop precisely, resting seems more difficult, controling angles isn't as easy (you drop right down), and gathering yourself would probably be more effective if you drop off of a box.. but it's the same concept IMHO.

2) Something involved with the rest interval between each rep?  Maybe?  If not then why would repeated 30''+ jumps not be a super method?  Ie jump vertical in place 30'' and repeat 10x times.

well it sounds like it would be but, if you can repeatedly jump 10x and hit 30", then a 30" box is probably too small to be effective overload as a super method. In that case you might need a 36" box etc. The fact that someone jump 10x in a row with no rest in between (rebounding vertical jumps) and hit 30" means that it is a submax effort, a "10RM" in a sense. So that athlete would need a higher box to tap into that "protected motor potential".

I mean I guess you can label DJ's from 12" "shock", but, it's not true shock in the sense that it isn't a powerful enough overload stimulus. So 30" is the low end of Verk's recommendation, 42" on the high end. Box height is determined by the performance/strength stats of the athlete.

3) Something involved in the reversal of force in only the vertical direction?  If not, then why wouldn't bounds or hurdle hops qualify as a super method provided the athlete goes 30'' in the air and comes down and rebounds.

Same reason as above. If an athlete can get their COG 30" above ground on DL/SL bounds etc, they already posses the "special strength" to produce and absorb/redirect that force voluntarily. So in order to tap into that extra motor potential, they would need to practice DJ's from higher boxes.

Even with single leg bounds, if you're able to keep bounding and reach some y-height (30" for example), it's a voluntary effort and according to Verk, falls within your "special strength" motor potential, not the "defended motor potential".

Finally, I tried a few depth jumps.  I jumped off a 34'' box and landed and touched a ceiling that is 10'1 I was able to get into the ceiling about 2 inches so it's about a 10'3 touch or a 31 inch jump for me.  At the time I was wearing a weighted vest + weighted shorts (20+15) so my bodyweight went from 215 to 240 and my standing vertical touch was just barely 10'.  Given that I am jumping higher off the box means I must be using some of the landing force in my jump.  However, I timed the landing time and it was 0.44 seconds.  Does the longer landing time disqualify it from being a depth jump?   I took a video of the last two, let me know what you think (I realize if I embark on this it would be best without the additional weight, but I was already wearing it and wanted to get a video)...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTVp0yAcu8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTVp0yAcu8</a>

looks good. form-wise, it could perhaps use a bit more of a pronounced step off (one leg, arms come together, then other leg as you gather in the air then drive the arms back), and actively dorsiflexing the ankles as you step off, but that's debatable anyway.

I don't think that GCT disqualifies it at all.. you would have to compare it to unweighted jumps and making sure you are rehearsing the correct cues:

"land with a spring and then fly as high as possible" -- SSTM p100

that cue determines the correct execution of the exercise, according to Verk. So, if you practiced DJ's semi-frequently (low volume) and rehearsed the correct cues (and performed them without extra weight), then whatever your GCT is I would imagine it is acceptable (within reason, 1+ second is unacceptable for example). As you improve MaxS, ExS, ReaS, that GCT should either stay the same while producing more force, or perhaps decrease while producing as much or more force.



i'm going to type out a few sections from SSTM on Shock & DJ's.. it will be worth it, some nice information in there and he says it alot better than I can say it

give me a bit!

pc man!

Hey Andrew,

Read your MSEM article..  Thoughts on using them for other exercises like RDL's?

yo! ya could definitely use it for RDL's.. any big compound movement.

right now i'm using it with barbell curl, barbell overhead press, barbell rdl, barbell squat etc.

Also instead of multiple heavy singles, can you still use it with doubles?  So like 2 reps, rest 45 sec, 2 reps, rest 45 sec, etc...

well, it would go against the protocol. I mean sure you could do it, but, part of MSEM is teaching relaxation, reducing time under tension (in one effort), reducing soreness/cns fatigue etc. You surely could do it with doubles, but it might tax you more; which can be fine but it's still different.

And with these, I know we should always be training with an INTENT on maximal bar speed, but with MSEM, we should ACTUALLY HAVE fast bar speed yes?

maximal bar speed with good form if your goal is also improving explosive strength. If your goal is simply maximal strength then bar speed can be as slow as you need it to be. So bar speed is just based on what qualities you're trying to improve; in our cases, maximal strength & explosive strength. I would still try to avoid dive bombing lifts though unless that's your proven style etc. Also with lifts like RDL, need to be a bit safer with bar speed. But ya, for us the reversal process (from eccentric-isometric-concentric) is most important.

pc!