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Quote from: acole14 on September 09, 2018, 07:20:17 am

Quote from: adarqui on September 08, 2018, 10:46:03 pm

first, the chair should have simply warned both sides (& perhaps coaches as well). To give Serena a violation like that at such a critical time, without warning, is absolute garbage. That caused Serena to "lose it". ie, "here we go again".

I feel that's excusing Serena's subsequent behaviour,

it's not excusing it at all. but that call set things in motion.

But you're saying that one violation (with no penalty attached at that stage) caused the subsequent meltdown. It didn't cause anything other than giving Serena a violation at that point in the match. It might have contributed to inflaming her mental state, but placing responsibility on the umpire is too extreme. Put yourself in the umpire's position. He sees the coach give coaching-like signals (picked up on camera). This is the final. How's it going to be for him if Serena then starts blowing the doors off the opponent, and he hasn't penalised the offending player? This is guy is also an apparent stickler for enforcing rules. Her team should have let her know this. Again, I mostly blame the coach for this, but Serena had to be more professional in that situation, she's experienced enough.

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to blame the umpire for not warning her about a very well-known violation in the game.

well known? that's never called.

Yes, it is well-known? It's definitely called occasionally, but as I said, it's a stupid rule that should just be removed. Nadal's coach was infamous for getting away it and I've read tennis forums for years: its always being discussed. I have no inherent problem with coaching from the sidelines, it's a dumb rule, but it's a rule that both players were playing under and that's just the situation.

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I disagree with 'warnings' for offences in general. What's the point of the rule if it's arbitrarily enforced depending on context?

tennis is all about concrete rules. how do you apply one of the few subjective rules without giving a warning? I've watched tons of tennis, i've rarely seen that rule enforced. Also, i've seen chair umps give warnings more than i've seen an actual violation.

you can only enforce a subjective rule arbitrarily.

I don't see why, because it's a subjective rule, warnings need be applied in every case. Of course, subjective calls are part of sport; my point was that context shouldn't matter in subjective arbitration. If the umpire sees what they deem as clear on-court coaching, they should pull the trigger whether it's the US open final or a Challenger qualifier, or whether the player has a history of meltdowns. In this case, the footage of the coaching was pretty obvious to me. If the umpire doesn't call that, I don't know when it would be called, and I don't think a warning is warranted just because of the context of the match - the coaching might have already influenced the outcome of the game. I agree that it's stupid rule though, and it should just go because it's too hard to detect and control with the players and coaches being in direct sight of one another, and because coaching is what they're paid to do.

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It's a weird rule anyway (coaches are paid to coach IMO) but I understand that tennis has a gladiatorial spirit where the players should be battling their opponent with no outside influence. If she should be mad at anyone, it should be the coach, not the umpire.

coaches often "instruct" during the match, doesn't mean the athlete is actually looking at them receiving the instructions. coaches coach, even if the athlete isn't looking at them.

Well, if they know the rule (and they do)...then they shouldn't be! The major problem with the violation (apart from it existing at all) is that it's a player violation, not a coach violation. It should be: if the umpire sees that sort of signal, the coaching staff are watching the game from the locker room with lighter pockets from that point, and the player doesn't accrue a violation. Serena kept taking it personally because it implies that she was cheating, which I didn't believe, but that's the rule both players are playing under. They just got caught out.

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Then compounding it by racket-smashing and abusing the ump is just bad situational awareness/brain fade, like not knowing how many fouls you have.

imho the racquet smashing isn't even a problem. she never even mentioned it. she knew she'd probably get a violation for it. men smash their racquets all the time, especially guys like Djoko / Murray / Kyrgios / Roddick etc.

What I meant is: if you're playing bball on five fouls, you know to not go hacking at the ball, or trying to take a charge on a fast break. In tennis (as you know, for others who don't) it goes: [warning-->point penalty-->game penalty-->default] for each successive violation. So knowing you're already on one violation, keep cool if you get a call you don't agree with, and likely, nothing will come of it (easy to say at the keyboard I know, but these are professional players with a lot at stake).

Her worst offense (to me) was calling the chair a "thief". That was stupid. But again, i've seen people chew out chair umps all the time and not get violations. Here's Federer dropping F bombs:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koTTY3QuLcQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koTTY3QuLcQ</a>

She lost her composure, that's all on her. However, that first coaching violation was still bullshit.

Serena is probably already on "edge" with some of the treatment of female athletes vs men. She's not someone who can just ignore it. Some of the stuff that happened in this US Open adds context to her meltdown - I mean she even mentioned this incident. Here's a woman receiving a violation for turning her shirt inside out:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2UIBboqUNo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2UIBboqUNo</a>

I've seen men do shirt changes during the changeover TONS of times, especially Nadal/Djokovic etc.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIAAZS3V4I" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIAAZS3V4I</a>

Tennis has historically been a "boys club", that shit drives Serena crazy. I think it factors in to some of her blowups.. Boys club & "race" issues are always on her mind, she deals with alot of it.

Yes, you could see it was a confluence of different emotional issues that Serena has been subjected to over the years coming out. I don't necessarily disagree with what she believed was happening, but it was just unprofessional to let it completely derail and overshadow the match. That's what the post-game press conference is for.

(I'm not in disagreement with any of the gender discrimination stuff raised by this, mostly because I can't find any data on whether there are umpiring discrepancies apart from anecdotal stuff, and drawing broad conclusions from these insular cases is tricky).

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This is the third US Open final where Serena has completely overshadowed the effort of the eventual winner with meltdowns (Clijsters 2009 and Stosur 2011). I think it really sucks to put an asterisk on someone's title like that, i.e. "if the other player hadn't melted down and given a game away, maybe they would have won, but I'll never know etc". This was the worst of the three by a mile though.

Some people might be saying "if she didn't melt down you never know", but Osaka was on fire, I doubt Serena wins that match without the melt down. Though, Serena was up 3-1 in the 2nd set when that coaching violation call happened.

That bolded hypothetical part is exactly what I'm talking about - there's a seed of doubt now. Maybe Osaka is not thinking about it right now, but in 20 years, she might look back at this match, and that seed of doubt will be there. Rather than a positive memory of blitzing her idol off the court, they'll most likely be bittersweet memories. I've had that happen to me when I was a junior in aths ("you only won because x switched to soccer/football/rugby") and it's a crappy thing to do, even indirectly. That's the major problem I have with this. I wish they could have just played the match out without the drama.

She went directly to the chair and states she didn't receive instructions and she's not a cheater. That call really messed her up, the idea that she was "cheating". A warning would have been a good idea. A warning would have also been a good idea before taking a game from her, ie: "Serena if you continue I will have to take away a game"

I just don't know why you need to coddle a player like Serena (or any player really, they're all professionals and should know the rules) - she's as experienced as they get. I watched the match live and they replayed her going at the umpire between games. It was prolonged dialogue, threatening to get him off her games and the liar/thief comments. She should know better at that point - it's playing with fire to do that on two violations, even if one was questionable. I think a warning at that stage is too generous for any player, a newbie or a veteran. In that Federer example, I don't think he abused the umpire to the degree that Serena did, but he swore and for sure, that's a violation. This speaks more to inconsistency between umpires' interpretation of violations. I think the umpire here made the right call based on the rule:

d) Verbal Abuse
 i) Players shall not at any time directly or indirectly verbally abuse an official, opponent, sponsor, spectator or any other person within the precincts of the tournament site. Verbal abuse is defined as any statement about an official, opponent, sponsor, spectator or any other person that implies dishonesty or is derogatory, insulting or otherwise abusive.

Finally. From what i've seen:, most everyone seems to be coming out AGAINST that coaching call violation. Former/current pros, analysts etc, everyone saying that was pure bullshit. Most people don't seem to think the thief comment is a violation either, given that men get away with worse.

That ref abused his power.

It's clearly a very polarising and complex issue because most of the coverage here in Aus was fairly mixed; I just don't buy that the umpire is the bad person here. One bad call can get shrugged off. Serena went the other way and, for the third time, overshadowed the victor. She's obviously established amongst the greats of tennis and it will be a minor blemish when it dies down (although the gender issues will be ongoing I think). I mostly just feel for the winner being deprived of their celebration. It was sickening to see her getting booed like that.

Amazing how my knees feel after doing the bulgarian split squats. Glutes and hams hurt like hell but this results in the knees feeling golden.

I have that exact same feeling too after BSS...but I never do them enough. They really are a great exercise.

I'm still mostly doing my plan from a few posts ago, but sprints and jump practice have been hard to come by. I've had a hell of a time trying to get the athletics track a mere five min away open on the weekends. It's a long story, but I may get somewhere with it soon (got a local councillor on my side, but it seems to be pin-balling around lots of departments and there's a lease agreement involved). It's very hard to get jumping in without a track at the moment. My home-made vertec experiment has just been a disaster because my backyard isn't very level and it's also a wind-tunnel. The gym isn't really very jump-friendly now either as I have to go during busy times (7:30-8:30PM). Same for sprinting - I'd love to be doing more of it as I feel better when I'm consistently running, and fitter too.

The only change to the weights side is that I'm doing more front squatting instead of RDLs, mostly because my squat started stalling a bit (that's also because I'm getting smashed by work and had a few weeks completely scuttled). This is probably the best style of training for me atm with life being fairly busy (I couldn't imagine training for or playing a competitive sport right now). I'm handling the current volume pretty well and throwing in some volume front squats has helped with quad/mid-back strength too (I rarely got quad or midback soreness doing the very hip/glute-dominant slow ATG squats I filmed a few months ago). So basically, a lot of squatting in addition to sporadic jumping and accessory stuff. As the weather gets better, I can do more outdoor backyard SVJs, and I'm switching gyms to a much bigger setup, which should allow me to jump more (I hope). More than anything, consistent access to good jumping spots has been my biggest nemesis.

I made this the other day from a Dragon Ball Super episode I saw on yt. Hehe:

Quote from: LBSS on July 30, 2018, 11:44:35 am

what's that about registering with british athletics? the open meets at lee valley cost six pounds per event. i don't know where you are in the UK but it's worth traveling to race. you'll never be in as good shape as you hope to be, and that's fine! i did two races on my recent trip in crap conditions because there's no replacement, even as a training tool, for competition against other people. could i have done better if i'd trained more, hadn't flown 7,000 miles one way and then 7,000 miles another way, been able to keep running consistently on the road, etc.? yes. doesn't matter, still beyond happy with myself for at least trying.

you can do it!

If you want to join a club you have to register with england athletics and pay the membership fee.

Most of the meets near my region, east england, do their meets online and some are cancelled and some require registration with england athletics.

I think what LBSS is saying is that there seems to be plenty of cheap open meetings around the UK, and travelling to the closest available one occasionally as a progress indicator would be hugely beneficial. I read the entry info and it looks like there's no requirements to be registered or be in a club. It would also give you a date to base your training around, rather than just training with no actual competition planned. Above all, you can really only max out your time in a competitive atmosphere - maybe not your first few runs, but certainly once you get a couple under your belt, you'll get less nervous and your training will show.

(That is awesome, btw. I would love that sort of opportunity here. It's so expensive to run in Melbourne, and the number of meets with good conditions is so few it's barely worth it from a money standpoint. Be thankful for living in a good country for aths).

Wimbledon has reached semi finals and yesterday semi final between anderson and isrin or something like that. was an epic match. back and forth.

Longest match in history ever breaks the longest match record to 6hrs 35mins, both have 2 game points last round went to 26 - 24 to anderson. one point anderson fell down and got up and continued the rally with a left hand response and won that rally.
his serve has 80% ace rate.

just epic and nadal and djokovic had to wait lol.

That was a great match but it wasn't even close to the longest ever. No coincidence that it occurred between two monster servebots at Wimbledon.

at first glance, Cousins doesn't seem like a good fit for GSW .. but, GSW being in the West, they're already one of the "tough teams", with Draymond etc.. Now with Cousins, more bruising. Seems like an elite West AND elite East team now. kinda nuts.

hoping Cousins is healthy.

just want to see the West go nuclear.. seems like it's a nuclear arms race in the West. this is fun shit. LMAO.

btw.. Lonzo won't last in LA. I expect he'll be gone soon tbh.. His dad is just too much for LEBRON.

I think the biggest Boogie bonus is that he can shoot threes now. If he's not going to be featured much on offense (which you would presume), they might just have him camped on the 3pt line, and he can rebound everything on defense - basically Javale McThree. Ridiculous that the GSW could somehow add to their talent this summer.....madness.

I also could see the Lakers shipping Lonzo+Ingram/Kuzma for Kawhi Leonard soon. They have been really high on Lonzo (who is quite good despite his bad shooting), but LeBron changes everything.

Notes:
Thankfully my left hip and right thigh seem fine. Those jumps were just hard on me because i was using the stupid crossfit shoes with no cushioning for the first time and also i was taking an akward runnup.

Wow, so you soured on the Metcons? I'm surprised to hear that they lack cushioning. I think they are the perfect jumping shoe.

I am, i still have 4 months to drop the fat....

Good to hear man. Good to see you're doing some sprints too.