Author Topic: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical Stay... and Improved! (UPDATE)  (Read 17392 times)

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scoobychau

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Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay...
Pay attention at the bonus footage in the middle of the video!

A Split sec Wedgie Moment captured.  :uhhhfacepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8f3E5o7u1w



P.S. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wedgie


updated with HD version....
« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 05:04:14 am by scoobychau »
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

LoopieMclooperson

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 01:44:58 am »
0
some good jumps in there, you just missed the mini ball.

Keep it up Scooby!
5'10"- 185lbs - 45 yrs - reach - 7'6" (90") - 27" SVJ - 30" RVJ - 245# Full squat
Progress Tracker - http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/loopie's-log/msg24864/#msg24864

Kingfish

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 04:09:24 am »
+1
ur strength is no where near where it should be. looking at your log, u squat in the 300s at 190lb BW..  some people with very good jumping mechanics and body structure might be able to do with that.. but for the rest of us.. power-to-weight ratio needs to be really high.

so simple but most people over complicate things and mess it up.
5'10" | 202lbs | 44 yrs
reach - 7'8" (92") |paused full squat - 545x1| standing VJ - 40"|

walk more. resting HR to low 40s. 

Daily Squats Day 1 - Aug 30, 2011 and still going.

Raptor

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 05:23:34 am »
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ur strength is no where near where it should be. looking at your log, u squat in the 300s at 190lb BW..  some people with very good jumping mechanics and body structure might be able to do with that.. but for the rest of us.. power-to-weight ratio needs to be really high.

so simple but most people over complicate things and mess it up.

I agree with you, but why not work and improve on the jumping mechanics? It's not rocket science.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

steven-miller

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 07:15:42 am »
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I agree with you, but why not work and improve on the jumping mechanics? It's not rocket science.

I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on what to do to improve jumping mechanics in a practiced jumper. And how is the best form defined in the first place?

Raptor

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 08:02:25 am »
-1
I agree with you, but why not work and improve on the jumping mechanics? It's not rocket science.

I'd be interested to hear your suggestions on what to do to improve jumping mechanics in a practiced jumper. And how is the best form defined in the first place?

He is NOT a "practiced jumper". He doesn't put in enough "effort" into jumping and does the same routine of jumping (sucky jumping) again and again and again. He will not gain anything doing that (no wonder he didn't for such a long time).

He looks like he uses what, 10% of his strength on those SVJ? Not enough bend and power into these. I think at this moment he's better suited to jump from a much lower position and use a weight vest while doing so. He could try paused jumps from a lower than "usual" position. He should be striving more towards your bend Steven. You really look like you're actually using your strength when you jump.

Yes yes, different structure blah blah blah, he just SUCKS when it comes to jumping right now. I don't care about the structure at this point. He needs to do plyos for a while and THEN come back to increasing strength. It's not a logical way to increase strength in an attempt to use it in a deficitary body movement like his jumping is at this point. That's like having a Formula 1 engine and using a Kart transmission in your car. Why the heck would you do that?

He's not even using his shoulders/traps well at this point. And because he bends too little when he jumps, he doesn't have the time to actually USE them well in my opinion.

So what it would be good for him to do right now is two leg bounds for length, consecutive vertical jumps from a stationary position (to the rim) and depth jumps later on. He needs to learn how to load properly and use his strength to convert it into power. He should be more away from the gym and more into the playing ground right now.

In terms of his running jumps I can't comment too much, he has the same problem Kingfish has - no speed, no compression in the plant, too much muscling etc. That's why he needs more plyos right now, multiresponse plyos. He needs to learn to muscle less and "use the tendons" more (be more reactive).

Now his structure definitely doesn't help and he will need to increase strength in the near future but at this point my opinion is that he needs to do more plyos and do weight vest jumps to the rim with the hope that his mechanics will change a bit. Adding the weight vest will actually make him muscle more his jumps but if he alternates between weight vest jumps and without the weight vest jumps in the same session, emphasizing speed and "relaxed" jumping (without the weight vest) while using a progressive acceleration approach/plant he should be good.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Samwell

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 08:36:23 am »
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i think he should watch the adam linkenauger video at http://jumpingtechnique.com/ it really helps one understand jumping form and also provides some exercises that one can do to improve form

vag

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 08:44:46 am »
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He surely can improve his jumping form, BUT:

BODYWEIGHT = ~190
MAX SQUAT LATELY = ~300

300/190 = ~1,57 ,  TOO LOW , END OF STORY!!!


Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Raptor

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 09:13:47 am »
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He surely can improve his jumping form, BUT:

BODYWEIGHT = ~190
MAX SQUAT LATELY = ~300

300/190 = ~1,57 ,  TOO LOW , END OF STORY!!!




Definitely^^^

That's why I said he needs to get back to strength training soon, but he should focus on jumping a bit right now.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

steven-miller

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 09:49:49 am »
0
@Raptor: Have you observed changes in jump mechanics from what you see in scooby to what you imagine as appropriate mechanics in you or others with help of what you suggested? If so, did those people have the years of jumping experience like scooby already has under his belt? In which time frame did those changes take place?

Samwell

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 10:08:23 am »
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i think a primary focus on improving relative strength whilst adding in some light plyometrics and implementing the jump techniques adam linkenaguer suggest is the best way to go seriously you cant say improvement in jump technique wouldnt help

Raptor

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 10:19:59 am »
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@Raptor: Have you observed changes in jump mechanics from what you see in scooby to what you imagine as appropriate mechanics in you or others with help of what you suggested? If so, did those people have the years of jumping experience like scooby already has under his belt? In which time frame did those changes take place?

Well for me, off two feet, I'm jumping much quicker (and higher) right now than in the past. Not sure what the cause for that is but, other than the increase in strength, I think the two leg bounds really did their magic for me. They just improve the intermuscular coordination, if you're lacking in that, and also make you accept much higher levels of tension in the plant without making you stiffen up and blow the jump (which is what was happening in the past). The jumps are more relaxed now than in the past (basically I just exert tension when I need to and then relax and allow my body to "elongate" (triple extend) properly, whereas before I would just continue to stay stiff and just "block" myself out).

So I think it's important for scooby to do some multiresponse two-leg bounds and some consecutive hurdle jumps and film those, and see how well he does them. See if he's "not sure" in his consecutive jumps (takes time to reset etc) or not. Stuff like that.

As long as time frame is concerned, for me it took, I don't know, a month of plyos or so to see some effects.
Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

steven-miller

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 10:27:20 am »
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i think a primary focus on improving relative strength whilst adding in some light plyometrics and implementing the jump techniques adam linkenaguer suggest is the best way to go seriously you cant say improvement in jump technique wouldnt help

As far as his SVJ is concerned there is certainly some room for improvement that will come with practice. His jump from a run-up is already a well practiced skill for him and I don't believe he will gain much from "working on his form" alone.


@Raptor: Have you observed changes in jump mechanics from what you see in scooby to what you imagine as appropriate mechanics in you or others with help of what you suggested? If so, did those people have the years of jumping experience like scooby already has under his belt? In which time frame did those changes take place?

Well for me, off two feet, I'm jumping much quicker (and higher) right now than in the past. Not sure what the cause for that is but, other than the increase in strength, I think the two leg bounds really did their magic for me. They just improve the intermuscular coordination, if you're lacking in that, and also make you accept much higher levels of tension in the plant without making you stiffen up and blow the jump (which is what was happening in the past). The jumps are more relaxed now than in the past (basically I just exert tension when I need to and then relax and allow my body to "elongate" (triple extend) properly, whereas before I would just continue to stay stiff and just "block" myself out).

So I think it's important for scooby to do some multiresponse two-leg bounds and some consecutive hurdle jumps and film those, and see how well he does them. See if he's "not sure" in his consecutive jumps (takes time to reset etc) or not. Stuff like that.

As long as time frame is concerned, for me it took, I don't know, a month of plyos or so to see some effects.

Effects in height of the jump or the jump merely looking more elegant or being executed more quickly?

Samwell

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2011, 10:37:41 am »
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i think a primary focus on improving relative strength whilst adding in some light plyometrics and implementing the jump techniques adam linkenaguer suggest is the best way to go seriously you cant say improvement in jump technique wouldnt help

As far as his SVJ is concerned there is certainly some room for improvement that will come with practice. His jump from a run-up is already a well practiced skill for him and I don't believe he will gain much from "working on his form" alone.

his jump from a run-up has been practiced but has it been practiced efficiently and with proper technique "perfect practice makes perfect"
i do agree that improvement  in form alone isn't the answer but i definitely think it could help more then you think.

steven-miller

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Re: Strength up, Reactive Power up, Vertical stay... (HD Version)
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 10:42:50 am »
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i think a primary focus on improving relative strength whilst adding in some light plyometrics and implementing the jump techniques adam linkenaguer suggest is the best way to go seriously you cant say improvement in jump technique wouldnt help

As far as his SVJ is concerned there is certainly some room for improvement that will come with practice. His jump from a run-up is already a well practiced skill for him and I don't believe he will gain much from "working on his form" alone.

his jump from a run-up has been practiced but has it been practiced efficiently and with proper technique "perfect practice makes perfect"
i do agree that improvement  in form alone isn't the answer but i definitely think it could help more then you think.

Fair enough, we do not have to agree on that. But I would like to know which basis it is that you formed that conclusion on.