Warning from my knee. I'm working Hard I'm getting Lean, I'm getting A warning

[scoobychau]

I Plant Left right when i Jump, and i think my Left is stronger than right which might also mean my left foot is shorter than my right.

Recently, i am experienced some dull pain on top of my right knee.
(I usually have soreness on my left knee, where I load up on jump and squat usually.  My left knee Click when i extend it, which i pretty much got use to already)

But now, is my Right, which sort of scare me, as it is something new.the pain is on top of my knee, I usually have pain below the knee ... so this is new to me again.  new pain on new leg... is scary to me.

When i extend my right leg, it is no longer smooth, some minor clicking appear, but that is not my main concern, it is that Dull stiff soreness that prevent my knee from moving.   

First thing when i wake up, my knee is sore, which disappear soon after.  But i am having soreness when every i Bend my knee, such as sitting ATG.
I have to sit down SLOW when i want to do this stretch due to the stiffness and soreness..


I am icing my knee in the office now..and eating glosamine right away
this shxt is scary
I tend to feel the slight soreness during slow down phase of my 100M sprint also...

[adarqui]

I Plant Left right when i Jump, and i think my Left is stronger than right which might also mean my left foot is shorter than my right.

Recently, i am experienced some dull pain on top of my right knee.
(I usually have soreness on my left knee, where I load up on jump and squat usually.  My left knee Click when i extend it, which i pretty much got use to already)

But now, is my Right, which sort of scare me, as it is something new.the pain is on top of my knee, I usually have pain below the knee ... so this is new to me again.  new pain on new leg... is scary to me.

When i extend my right leg, it is no longer smooth, some minor clicking appear, but that is not my main concern, it is that Dull stiff soreness that prevent my knee from moving.   

First thing when i wake up, my knee is sore, which disappear soon after.  But i am having soreness when every i Bend my knee, such as sitting ATG.
I have to sit down SLOW when i want to do this stretch due to the stiffness and soreness..


I am icing my knee in the office now..and eating glosamine right away
this shxt is scary
I tend to feel the slight soreness during slow down phase of my 100M sprint also...

how short is the deceleration phase of your 100m sprints? slowing down too quick will put alot of stress on the quads/hamstrings/knee.

i'd definitely keep icing it. a few times per day for ~15 minutes.

how long has this been happening? if it's brand new, you might unfortunately want to pause your routine a bit to see if it recovers. If it's been happening for a while, that's more of a judgement call because it's already a nagging issue. Adding more rest to your routine usually helps.. but like I said above, if you're decelerating too fast, that could be stressing your knee bigtime; then combine that with jumps/squats etc, and now you're constantly bugging it.

when people have issues like that and tend to work through them, a very good warmup is essential.. you don't want to squat/jump/sprint unless you've warmed up very good, to the point where squatting down etc results in much less discomfort.

pc!

[T0ddday]

I Plant Left right when i Jump, and i think my Left is stronger than right which might also mean my left foot is shorter than my right.

Recently, i am experienced some dull pain on top of my right knee.
(I usually have soreness on my left knee, where I load up on jump and squat usually.  My left knee Click when i extend it, which i pretty much got use to already)

But now, is my Right, which sort of scare me, as it is something new.the pain is on top of my knee, I usually have pain below the knee ... so this is new to me again.  new pain on new leg... is scary to me.

When i extend my right leg, it is no longer smooth, some minor clicking appear, but that is not my main concern, it is that Dull stiff soreness that prevent my knee from moving.   

First thing when i wake up, my knee is sore, which disappear soon after.  But i am having soreness when every i Bend my knee, such as sitting ATG.
I have to sit down SLOW when i want to do this stretch due to the stiffness and soreness..


I am icing my knee in the office now..and eating glosamine right away
this shxt is scary
I tend to feel the slight soreness during slow down phase of my 100M sprint also...

how short is the deceleration phase of your 100m sprints? slowing down too quick will put alot of stress on the quads/hamstrings/knee.

i'd definitely keep icing it. a few times per day for ~15 minutes.

how long has this been happening? if it's brand new, you might unfortunately want to pause your routine a bit to see if it recovers. If it's been happening for a while, that's more of a judgement call because it's already a nagging issue. Adding more rest to your routine usually helps.. but like I said above, if you're decelerating too fast, that could be stressing your knee bigtime; then combine that with jumps/squats etc, and now you're constantly bugging it.

when people have issues like that and tend to work through them, a very good warmup is essential.. you don't want to squat/jump/sprint unless you've warmed up very good, to the point where squatting down etc results in much less discomfort.

pc!

I would go a step farther and consider dropping the 100m sprints.  Our bodies can only take so much and you seem pretty intent on peaking your vertical right now.  I am a sprinter so you know I love 100m sprints BUT 100m sprinting is not specific to vertical and if they are aggravating knee issues they should be dropped.  I also don't know for sure but I imagine your 100m sprint form might not be perfect from watching your approaches on your jump...

If you feel you need the 100m sprints to stay lean or because they have some benefit to your training then I would replace them.  The ideal replacement would be hill sprints which have a far shorter landing height (because you are going up hill) and will be just as specific or more for vertical.  The only thing hill sprints won't be as specific for is the actual 100m race but you are not a sprinter you are a jumper.

[scoobychau]

how short is the deceleration phase of your 100m sprints? slowing down too quick will put alot of stress on the quads/hamstrings/knee.

the decelleration phase is about 20-30meter max...
consider whole length of the parking lot is about 80-90 meter only (measured by google map).

The pain had been with me for 2 weeks now, Stretching the quad by standing and pulling my foot from the back help alot.

the 100M sprint seems the key to my weight control, I am no longer losing more weight stable as 170lbs.

I still cut most if not all of my carb. however, i am not eating as clean as before anymore.. lucky my weight remain same at 169-170lbs.

With the same weight, my waist is getting smaller though.  I know running up hill or stair climbing would be a better alternative, but this option is not available until i can find such facility. 

actually this had just gave me an idea... there is some Highway Crossing Bridge in the park...with Stairs... but they are in section... guess it is not a good idea...

[T0ddday]

how short is the deceleration phase of your 100m sprints? slowing down too quick will put alot of stress on the quads/hamstrings/knee.

the decelleration phase is about 20-30meter max...
consider whole length of the parking lot is about 80-90 meter only (measured by google map).

The pain had been with me for 2 weeks now, Stretching the quad by standing and pulling my foot from the back help alot.

the 100M sprint seems the key to my weight control, I am no longer losing more weight stable as 170lbs.

I still cut most if not all of my carb. however, i am not eating as clean as before anymore.. lucky my weight remain same at 169-170lbs.

With the same weight, my waist is getting smaller though.  I know running up hill or stair climbing would be a better alternative, but this option is not available until i can find such facility. 

actually this had just gave me an idea... there is some Highway Crossing Bridge in the park...with Stairs... but they are in section... guess it is not a good idea...

For your needs... Hills are better than flat but stairs are not actually a good alternative.  Stairs have fixed heights which are not good for much at all and are dangerous...

If I was coaching you I would really really really really try to get you off the concrete surface of the parking lot and onto field turf or grass or hills...

But if that's all you got I have a question...

If the parking lot is only 80-90 meters how do you do 100m sprints?

For your body composition goals and knee health of all you have is flat hard surfaces... Just shorten the distance drastically.  Use a modified standing three point stance (force yourself to touch the ground) and do repeated short sprints. 

Do you have a watch w a chronometer?  You can set it to beep at intervals? 

Most of the energy expenditure in a sprint occurs during acceleration and if you properly do it (contrary to popular opinion) it is a glute dominant (think prone glute push) exercise rather than quad dominant movement and should be very easy on the knees.  This is one of my favorite protocols we have done for leaning out and it would be perfect for you - especially because it allows you to drop upper body more, modify it for your times. 

Starting position is hand on start line.

1) 60 meter sprint in < 8 or 9 seconds (watch beep)
2) 20 seconds to return to start (running back the other way)
3) Repeat for 4-10 reps for a set

- between sets do - 100 push-ups, 100 back extensions and 100 leg raises

Do three sets. 

This will get u super lean. 

[scoobychau]

For your needs... Hills are better than flat but stairs are not actually a good alternative.  Stairs have fixed heights which are not good for much at all and are dangerous...

If I was coaching you I would really really really really try to get you off the concrete surface of the parking lot and onto field turf or grass or hills...

But if that's all you got I have a question...

If the parking lot is only 80-90 meters how do you do 100m sprints?


BTW, in my journal, Acole suggested me to use Weight Vest and said, To00day have some good use of it with great result,  can u please tell me more about the Vest usage? (i had just PMed u about this before i saw ur reply)

For your body composition goals and knee health of all you have is flat hard surfaces... Just shorten the distance drastically.  Use a modified standing three point stance (force yourself to touch the ground) and do repeated short sprints. 

Do you have a watch w a chronometer?  You can set it to beep at intervals? 

Most of the energy expenditure in a sprint occurs during acceleration and if you properly do it (contrary to popular opinion) it is a glute dominant (think prone glute push) exercise rather than quad dominant movement and should be very easy on the knees.  This is one of my favorite protocols we have done for leaning out and it would be perfect for you - especially because it allows you to drop upper body more, modify it for your times. 

Starting position is hand on start line.

1) 60 meter sprint in < 8 or 9 seconds (watch beep)
2) 20 seconds to return to start (running back the other way)
3) Repeat for 4-10 reps for a set

- between sets do - 100 push-ups, 100 back extensions and 100 leg raises

Do three sets. 

This will get u super lean.

When I mention 100m sprint.. it is not really 100m... I was referring to trying to MAX out and sprint like 100m..
I dont think i can find a hill.. even if i can.. it will still have pavement or steps ...

When u mentioned touching the ground and change direction, isnt that like Suicide in basketball training?
I always thought all those change of direction is bad for joint and gear more toward endurance than max explosive.

But u are right about leaning fwd accelerating with the dropped upperbody.

reading the following with some questions:
Starting position is hand on start line.

1) 60 meter sprint in < 8 or 9 seconds (watch beep), (slow down... no need to touch ground?)
2) 20 seconds to return to start (running back the other way) (Reset with hand on starting line?)
3) Repeat for 4-10 reps for a set  (4-10 reps is alot is not it?)

- between sets do - 100 push-ups, 100 back extensions and 100 leg raises  (doing this many between set is killing my CNS... how can i even do run set 2 ?)


It take me 30 min to complete 10 reps of the max effort sprint. (with 2.5 min rest bettwen each reps..)

with T000day suggestion and doing 3 set (so 200 pushup, back ext and leg raise?).. seems like it is going to be a LOOONg day....


btw, in my journal Acole mentioned the use of weight vest and suggested me to seek your advice... can u tell me abit more how to utilize the weight vest?  i have one sitting at home at 20lbs.

I had just PMed you about this... before i read ur reply here, sorry about that.

[Mikey]

how short is the deceleration phase of your 100m sprints? slowing down too quick will put alot of stress on the quads/hamstrings/knee.

the decelleration phase is about 20-30meter max...
consider whole length of the parking lot is about 80-90 meter only (measured by google map).

The pain had been with me for 2 weeks now, Stretching the quad by standing and pulling my foot from the back help alot.

the 100M sprint seems the key to my weight control, I am no longer losing more weight stable as 170lbs.

I still cut most if not all of my carb. however, i am not eating as clean as before anymore.. lucky my weight remain same at 169-170lbs.

With the same weight, my waist is getting smaller though.  I know running up hill or stair climbing would be a better alternative, but this option is not available until i can find such facility. 

actually this had just gave me an idea... there is some Highway Crossing Bridge in the park...with Stairs... but they are in section... guess it is not a good idea...

Starting position is hand on start line.

1) 60 meter sprint in < 8 or 9 seconds (watch beep)
2) 20 seconds to return to start (running back the other way)
3) Repeat for 4-10 reps for a set

- between sets do - 100 push-ups, 100 back extensions and 100 leg raises

Do three sets. 

This will get u super lean.

That's one hardcore workout.

[T0ddday]

When I mention 100m sprint.. it is not really 100m... I was referring to trying to MAX out and sprint like 100m..
I dont think i can find a hill.. even if i can.. it will still have pavement or steps ...

Understandable.  IMO if it is steps then stick to your flat sprints.  If your flat sprints are on pavement than hill sprints on pavement would be preferred.  As far as surfaces for your body composition sprints I would recommend (soft = grass/turf and hard = pavement): 
Soft Hill > Soft Flat > Hard Hill > Hard Flat
 

When u mentioned touching the ground and change direction, isnt that like Suicide in basketball training?
I always thought all those change of direction is bad for joint and gear more toward endurance than max explosive.

No, a suicide is where you run from line to line touching the ground and turning.  It isn't necessary more for endurance (depends on the distance - ie a 20 yard shuttle is not an endurance test.  But what I am recommending is not a suicide because I am recommending starting with hand on ground and sprinting 60 meters after which you decelerate for X (~20-30m) and then walk back to line and put hand on ground for next rep.  On suicide would be touching touching the and immediately turning around to run back.     

But u are right about leaning fwd accelerating with the dropped upperbody.

reading the following with some questions:
Starting position is hand on start line.

1) 60 meter sprint in < 8 or 9 seconds (watch beep), (slow down... no need to touch ground?)

No, you should touch the ground to begin all reps.  I see that I may have confused you by making you think it was a suicide.  The idea is that you are touching the ground to keep timing consistent AND also for the main reason that as we get tired we don't want these to become walking starts.  Its a start from dead stop with hand on ground always (hand on ground also gives us proper acceleration cue and body lean). 

2) 20 seconds to return to start (running back the other way) (Reset with hand on starting line?)

Don't run back the other way.  You can up it to 30 seconds if it's not enough time but it should be a walk.  The idea is you run X meters (50-60) and then after you hit finish line you decelerate slowly which is safe... A natural deceleration should be about 20-30 meters for a 50-60m run for you.  So after you have finished decelerating you are now 30 meters from other start... Now you walk back to the "finish line" which is the new start line. 

Note*** If you have your distances well marked off you can use 2 start lines and shorten the walk back to 10 meters and keep the 20 second inter-rep rest interval.  So it would look like this:

10 meter walk zone >>> A1: start line 1 >>>>  50 meters >>>> A2: finish line 1 >>> 30 meter deceleration zone
 30 meter deceleration zone <<< B2: finish line 2  <<<< 50 meters <<< B1: start line 2 <<< 10 meter walk-back zone   

So, I think you said you have a 90 meter concrete running surface so marks would be:

10 meters = start line 1
60 meters = finish line 1
80 meters = start line 2
30 meters = finish line 2
 

3) Repeat for 4-10 reps for a set  (4-10 reps is alot is not it?)

Yes, it is a lot.  But it's not impossible. Work up to it.  If we estimate 10 seconds for sprint and 20 seconds for recovery it's basically 10 seconds for first rep and 30 for following so 4 reps = 1 minute and 40 seconds  and 10 reps = 4 minutes and 4 seconds.  You could do somewhere in between (say around 3 minutes which is 6 reps)

 

- between sets do - 100 push-ups, 100 back extensions and 100 leg raises  (doing this many between set is killing my CNS... how can i even do run set 2 ?)

This isn't CNS heavy but it could be exhausting.  There IS a difference.  It isn't all those between sets.  It is one of those.  Of course modify it for you needs.  So it could be 5 reps.  Rest for ~2 mins.  Do 25 pushups.  Rest for 30 seconds.  Do 25 pushups.  Rest for ~2 mins.  Start set 2.  Then, between set 2 and 3 you could do leg-raises again or back-ext or pushups again depending on your needs.

It take me 30 min to complete 10 reps of the max effort sprint. (with 2.5 min rest bettwen each reps..)

Yes.  I am cutting your rest.  That is the point.  You can modify it but I am meaning to cut rest and shorten distance.  Max fat loss happens at close to a 1:1 - 1:5 ratio of work to rest.  At 50m this much rest allows you to do close to a max effort sprint (~95% effort).  If you are running 10 second sprints with a 2.5 minute rest then you are doing a 1:15 rep:rest protocol which I think is a bit much.  So for you I am prescribing ~8 second run (50 meters) which we can round up to 10 seconds, and then a 2-3 second deceleration and a 20-30 second walkback, so approximately 1:3 sprint:rest ratio for about 4 minutes per set and then about 5 minute inter-set rest interval (with upper-body so not truly total rest) so it's 1:3 sprint:rest and 1:1.2 or so reps:rest intervals. Or a total work:rest rate of about 1:5 or so.   

with T000day suggestion and doing 3 set (so 200 pushup, back ext and leg raise?).. seems like it is going to be a LOOONg day....

Well not so long now that I explained it is just one interset axillary exercise.

btw, in my journal Acole mentioned the use of weight vest and suggested me to seek your advice... can u tell me abit more how to utilize the weight vest?  i have one sitting at home at 20lbs.

I had just PMed you about this... before i read ur reply here, sorry about that.

I'll try to respond to your PM.  How is your knee?   

[scoobychau]

thanks,  sorry about my slow respond,

busy with work but training hardly skipped any day

Knee is more or less the same
minor sorness when i press it.
and when i Jump.. some time sore

nothing serious.
I stopped icing it due to lazyness
but i always do standing Quad stretch (but pulling my ankle from the back)
and seems to cure the pain temporary.

weight had been stable at 170-175lbs depends how much i eat/drink
Squat number is also going up (5x5)
yet. vert is not going up.
i am using the strength phs excuse again... and again...

[adarqui]

thanks,  sorry about my slow respond,

busy with work but training hardly skipped any day

Knee is more or less the same
minor sorness when i press it.
and when i Jump.. some time sore

nothing serious.
I stopped icing it due to lazyness
but i always do standing Quad stretch (but pulling my ankle from the back)
and seems to cure the pain temporary.

weight had been stable at 170-175lbs depends how much i eat/drink
Squat number is also going up (5x5)
yet. vert is not going up.
i am using the strength phs excuse again... and again...

sounds good so far.. if you're getting stronger, jumping frequently, and staying lean -> jumps are going to go up eventually.. they may go up during this routine, or may require a slight deload to see them go up.. regardless, i'd stay consistent with what you have going now.

T0ddday mentioned something like this in another thread, and I definitely like it; you may want to plan a "deload week" every 4th week.. you could drop all heavy lifting, HIIT, etc.. but still get in ~2-3 jump sessions that week (1 hard, 1 ez, 1 hard perhaps).

stay focused & don't start switching everything around.

pc.