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I taped the game at home to watch when I finished work. After reading this thread and looking at the final score I'm not even going to bother watching it. CLE are choking.

Basketball is one of those sports where it is really difficult to decide if I team is performing poorly or if their opponent is just playing excellent defense because so much of defense doesn't show up in the stat sheet... 

As far as this series so far...  The cavs seem to be doing everything perfect.  They are bottling up Klay and Steph about as well as you can contain the two best shooters of all time...  They seem to be getting decent shots.  But they are just not making them which makes for ugly basketball that is not fun to watch...

Can you really claim that they are choking rather than just giving credit to the warriors excellent defense like everyone in the bay area is doing?  I think maybe the warriors defense deserves some credit for sure... BUT 35% from the field and 20% from three?  I mean not to take anything away from the warriors but I have to agree with Mutumbo for the most part.  I think it comes down the Cavs just not making shots...

What it looks like to me is that the entire Cavs team has the same problems as the warriors bench.  The warriors bench plays better at home just like all benches in the NBA.  I mean Speights frequently lights it up at home especially when the lead is established but you really see them relying on him for a pressure filled road game...

The is sort of the nature of what benches are in the NBA.  Usually younger, less experienced, less able to handle pressure but still supremely talented athletes who the team can't count on in the most difficult of situations but often excellent at home and especially with an established lead to extend.  No team has a bench that is more reliable during adversity than their starters - otherwise these guys would play far more... 

Watching the Cavs it looks like their entire team (except Lebron) suffers from this "bench stereotype".   Unfortunately that is ALL their shooters and if in adverse conditions two of your main three point options are playing in their first finals and second playoffs ever (Love and Irving) and can't be counted on to make shots and those who have been here before are career long headcases as shooters (JR smith, Shumpert) you simply can't win.  The one player who they do expect to perform on the road is Lebron and even in the best scenario he isn't a great three point shooter... 

It's unfortunate that Lebron was supposed to have a better chance with Love and Irving healthy... But because they missed last year he now has two players playing in their first nba finals.  And they are playing like it's their first time here and I think that's again too much to ask of Lebron - it sucks because thats not what the media will say but it is the truth.

I mean Steph Curry and Klay choked to some extent the first couple games of last years finals... It just didn't matter because they pulled off one game 1 in overtime despite less than stellar performances from their stars and then by the time they fell behind 2-1 they started playing well despite the pressure and the Lebron was so overworked that they didn't have much left...


The sad thing this year is that the warriors bench is actually less young and inexperienced guys and more older journeymen who are pretty adept at handling adversity - Barbosa, Igudola, Livingston.   I trust those three guys on the road to still perform reasonably well far more than anyone on the Cavs other than Lebron....  That is truly scary and doesn't help the Cavs chances..  You really see how much a team like the Cavs needed home court - unfortunately the Warriors won 73 so they can't really complain that they just missed out...

Anyway, regardless of who you are a fan of lets hope the Cav shooters can find their stroke again at home because otherwise this will not be an entertaining series...  I'm a fan of Lebron the player but I can't understanding hoping for a team to lose or cheering against a team - the Warriors are amazing and it would be great to see them win...  But even if I was a diehard warrior fan I feel almost so confident in their chances that I would find myself halfway hoping JR smith knocks down 5-10 threes in the next game and the Cavs win...  It almost seems Cav victories just mean we get to watch more basketball at this point - but they don't affect the outcome...  And who doesn't want to watch more basketball before a long summer without it...  I really hope the Cavs with game three and four - I still would see the warriors winning game 5 and closing it out in 6 or if by some stroke of luck the cavs won we would get to see a game 7 - and game 7 on the home court in the finals is pretty much a done deal.  At this point the Cavs have two ways of winning the series:

(1) Win four straight games
(2) Win a game seven in golden state

Does anybody really see either as remotely likely?  I don't think so.  So cheer for cleveland if you want to see a few more games!   

to me CLE's biggest mistake was the both the timing and firing of coach Blatt.  he did a good job and yet CLE didn't show him much respect.  i don't buy it one bit LBJ had nothing to do with the firing.  LBJ's on court disrespect for Blatt was clearly on display.  get the team to the Finals and fired when the team is at 30-11?  SMH.

I went from being the biggest LBJ fan to being anti Cavs when he did wrong by my boy Wiggins. Before that I would argue passionately why he was the best ever and he wasn't an asshole like MJ had been. I dont care to anymore, he laid his bed, he has been an awful custodian of his talent and legend. A better man would have more results to show. He could have gone anywhere but the Cavs but once he went back he could have done a lot better than killing his coach and rookie. I don't respect him the same since. Still a pretty good career mind you. Go warriors. I still can't believe how close OKC came

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he has been an awful custodian of his talent and legend. A better man would have more results to show.

i couldn't have put it any better.  to me his ego really got him good, which might not be all his fault since all the hype he received and huge endorsements at such a young age.  some argue he turn out pretty good but like you said, could/should have been better.  a lot better.  but his ego never subsided over the years, in that aspect i think he never learned to be truly humble.  yeah he claims to be but it's an act.  with his athletic performance seeming fading pretty fast if he don't make his mid range jumper more solid and add some real footwork improvements the sun is setting quick.  footwork is simply practice until second nature and you'll certainly know yourself if you did it wrong when you travelled.  when he can say it with a straight face "i don't travel".  what does that say about him?

so if lebron was humble, but still failed to improve, then what? .. but that's the key here i guess.. lebron's personality, or perceived lack of humility, results in people concocting all types of arguments against his achievements. Personally, I think it's waaaaaay to easy to say "someone could have been great, but they didn't do x y z, or they weren't humble enough".

I guess it just bothers me.. I'll use Kobe as an example. Kobe receives so much praise, yet, he was so much more hated than Lebron as a player, teammate etc. He basically demanded a trade as soon as he got into the league. His ego was through the roof; he was the black mamba after all. He had a major "indiscretion" (which was potentially criminal). He was apart of a dynasty team, with SHAQ, who he helped to run out of LA. His two titles in 2009 & 2010 were an amazing achievement, given that he didn't have shaq anymore. So, is he a disappointment? Should he have 10 titles if he had been more humble? This is an easy game to play.. Let's play it with Shaq, arguably the most un-humble guy next to Wilt Chamberlain or Dennis Rodman. Is Shaq a disappointment? If he had been more humble, would he be less of one?

These are hall-of-fame players we're talking about here.. Being "more humble" is just some weird talking point I mostly see people throw around, just to give themselves an excuse to crap on an athlete.

News flash.. many of the best athletes/players in history aren't humble. They have big egos.

It's just so odd to me that two athletes with huge egos, can be treated so dramatically different by people.

Also to sum it up; I think the humble/ego excuse is very weak.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+do+champions+have+big+egos



As far as tennis goes, i've seen people in person use a similar argument to basically justify racist comments targeting Serena Williams.. because of her "ego". In tennis it's especially a problem, because lots of people are just looking for an excuse to always root against "the black chick". They most often use such baseless arguments to justify their hate.. Meanwhile, these same people were fans of Mcenroe, Roddick, Murray etc.

another thing i heard and fully agree with since returning to CLE is LBJ "player" is doing well, but LBJ "GM", and LBJ "coach" has been disaster...  he should let other people do their jobs.

disaster? they got to two straight finals.. is it Lebron's fault that everyone is missing shots? heh.

and let's imagine he has that kind of influence over the GM & owner of CLE.. how is it his fault, that they would listen to him, instead of doing their job?

I hear you ghettoranger but unlike you I am still pretty high on Lebron. I hope he gets it together and does justice to his gifts and ends with a legacy worthy of best ever player. However, he may never get there which is sad to me as a fan. I grew up worshipping MJ but I had no idea what he was /really/ like -- and it shattered my world view when i discovered he was nothing like the clean cut image he had sold us all those years ago. I must have seen Come Fly With Me at least a hundred times .. had it on VHS and played it all the time. Lol. I sometimes think i could have done with a better role model but that's not for this conversation lol.

So when ppl talk about LBJ's ego i don't agree. He's pretty humble and down to earth when you compare him to Jordan and somehow Jordan (or Kobe) gets a pass??

I do agree that Lebron shud never have so much influence over personnel and management decisions. I felt even in Miami days he got away with exerting too much influence but it was nothing like what he did with the Cavs on his 2nd tenure there. I was indifferent to the Cavs previously but after that I can't accept a team which allows one player so much abuse of power. And Lebron as GM / coach sucks -- he should have surrounded himself with better staff who would have advised him to make better decisions. That's kinda tragic to me, i really really wanted him to end his career as GOAT.

I'll probably get some flak for playing the race card...  But sorry I see no other explanation for the Lebron hate...

Racism isn't always some overt thing where you hate the members of a certain race.  A basketball fan can love Tim Duncan and hate Lebron and this can be born out of racism...  Allen Iverson is the most racially polarizing basketball star of all time - this doesn't mean his detractors were not fans of any black players...

I think Andrew is on to something with his Serena example, people don't like to see her succeed because of racism and use excuses to tear her down.  The idea that Lebron is any less humble than other stars in laughable...

I challenge you all to do this to understand the Lebron hate.  Substitute the word humble for the word obedient.   I think you see a lot of truth in the Lebron hate now.   Lebron isn't obedient and that makes people really mad.  He didn't obey his owner, he didn't obey a white agent, or a white coach, he did it his way and this makes people mad. 

Jordan and Kobe did it under a white "zen master" who was wise and they obeyed and were rewarded (at least this is the narrative).

I think this is so clear in the criticism that Lebron exerts too much power over personnel decisions.  Never mind that Kobe ran Shaq out of town and embarrassed and clowned Smush Parker and his new supporting cast - the idea that Lebron makes decisions as the GM really pisses people off? 

I find this ridiculous.  First of he isn't the GM.  You all realize that right?  If he has bad ideas and the owner and the general manager do what he says then THEY are bad at their jobs!  If I call Obama on the line and suggest we bomb Canada and he listens to me - I am not that bad politician, he is the bad politician.

Second... Is he bad?  Let's see the GM team of him Pat Riley and D wade all converged and set up a team to go to four straight finals and win two.  That's damn impressive. 

During those four years Cleveland was absolutely terrible despite a number one pick and an angry letter from a petulant idiot owner who sounded like a spurned slave owner that he would win a title before Lebron.... Not very humble...

But you know what is humble?  Not taking the racist attacks by Daniel Gilbert personally and returning to shitty ass Cleveland to play for an owner who disrespected you because you realize winning a title is something you want to do for the people of the city and you can move on from the past.   Think Jordan would play for Krause again??? Hah. 

Since his return to Cleveland they have made back to back finals.  Sure they didn't win the first time and probably won't win this...  But they are going up against a warriors juggernaut.  Sometimes you peak when someone really good peaks.  Second isn't so bad...  I mean the Jazz of 97,98 were one of the great NBA teams.  Jerry Sloan did an excellent job and their management assembled excellent teams, they are not failures because they went against MJ and the Bulls and lost.   The warriors are equal to the Bulls.  Sure Kobe and Shaq won three in a row... But seriously the Nets, Pacers and 76ers?   Then they lost to the Pistons who LBJ beat single handedly.   Basketball has up and down times.  The 90s were amazing.  The early aughts were terrible.  Teams are really good right now.  The Thunder have made the finals once and never won.  They are light years better than teams like the 2004 pistons and nets and pacers... Timing is everything...