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If you have common sense, you may also draw certain conclusions based on the evidence youve seen.  When there is a direct fucking line linking a strength exercise with a power event, it really does give you some evidence that strength exercise may be a good way to train for it.

Also, most people can low bar squat more than they can high bar, RIGHT NOW.  What does that tell you?  That its making you stronger since the weight is heavier? bullshit.  You can also deadlift more than you can squat, so a deadlift makes you stronger too right?  Youre putting yourself in a position thats EASIER to lift the weight.

That depends on what you call proper, and fucking LOL @ sibling.   You also are merely repeating Rippetoe horseshit with the last line again, even if there were studies to prove it, it would have to be quantified into different lever lengths/height/etc.  The hips have to work pretty damn hard in a full olympic squat,  the low back can compensate for weak glutes more easily in the low bar squat.  Watch the last 3 reps of Rippetoes squat in the video I linked.

They can damn sure do a majority of the work first though.  Look how many deadlifters get away with very little leg contribution.  Once you get that load moving UP, its pretty easy to straighten out those legs.

It is correct that you can lift more weight with the LBBS. And which exercise is easier to progress, Lance, the bench-press or the press?

I agree that things would need to be quantified. In absence of people willing to do it properly, let me ask you the following question: Do you think that when executed correctly, meaning that the lower back muscles work purely isometrically, a 1 rm LBBS would induce higher activation of the glutes and hamstrings compared to the HBBS?

I agree that this is possible to do. Deadlifters often set up with a round back that later gets extended. However, it is rarely extended before the bar clears the knees. So up to this point the legs do most if not all of the work. But I can see what you are getting at.
However, talking about the squat, if no back bend occurs, there cannot be work done by it. This is a rather easy thing to diagnose and prevent I would think. So this isn't really an argument contra the LBBS.

Which exercise is easier to progress Steven, the squat or the rack shrug?  Which one actually matters?

High bar done atg would show a higher quad and glute activity, low bar done to Rippetoe specs would win with the hamstrings in my opinion. IF you went deeper with the low bar, and stayed more vertical, then it would also show more glute activity, and possibly similar quad activity.   I dont believe in using the squat as your primary hamstring exercise though, even with the guys who low bar squat.  

Rippetoe, in his squat linked, does exactly what I am referring to.  I am not picking on him as this is much more commonly what you will see with a typical low bar squat, than someone staying more vertical and using the LEGS more to drive the lift.  I think youre using yourself as your n=1 population, and failing to realize that your squat form is much different than the typical lbbs.  

[edited out]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxl3Fj13Jdc[/edited out]

^ a low bar squat done like THAT, will give HUGE carryover to athleticism.


[edited out]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCh4bm-lE2c&feature=related[/edited out]

^ a low bar squat done like THAT will give you a 22 inch vertical, 105k clean and jerk, 82.5 snatch, with a 600 squat. However it will help the deadlift a lot.

  In all honesty Steven, youre a smart guy, dont act like you dont see the difference in those exercises and that you dont understand how one is more useful for athletic training, and one is more useful for lifting more weight in the squat.

There is a very common plot twist in movies where you have a superhero with utter faith in his convictions and beliefs, doing things he believes are right. Then he finds out he was actually with the BAD side all along, his actions weren't aligned good but with evil and now he is forced to question every single speck of faith and wonders where things went wrong. The big paradox for the audience is how dark gave birth to light (or vice versa). I think the last time I saw it was in Batman Begins (is that the one where he goes up to the mountains to train? and ras el-goul is his teacher who not pure, benevolent and good like batman first thought but turns out to be actually evil!). That sort of thing is unfolding right here in this thread. Batman was still awesome tho, he was pure of heart, and his squat form was probably athletic which spared him from squat morning his lifts. In general the protagonist has some overriding virtues of character which protect him and even save him.
 

It would definitely matter, depending on the goal though, it may not matter nearly as much as progressing another exercise.  If you wanted to improve your jerk, would you choose bench press as your primary, or the push press/press?

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Why do you think the HBBS will elicit more glute activation? Look at the picture with the two squats I posted before. Would you not agree that even performed to this height the LBBS shows a similar amount of hip flexion as the HBBS? Does this not mean that the glutes extend over the same ROM but with more weight on the back and a bigger moment arm applied (provided that one squats HB with the bar over mid-foot)?

thats why I gave the depth disclaimer.  The glutes are working the hardest in the very bottom of the squat,  the longer lever arm of the high bar squat with the added depth will make the glutes work harder in this range of motion, and I dont agree that the glutes have to work very hard at any other point, they are at a leverage advantage after that, higher up in the range of motion.  Muscles work the hardest, in the stretch.

This is my opinion, and my experience with both squat styles.  If you switch from low bar to high bar, one of the most common occurrences is extremely sore glutes, why do you think this is?

[edited out]http://i.imgur.com/SHsQ3.jpg[/edited out]

Thats the thing, its not abnormal, for a low bar squat.  It is however not optimal if strengthening the LEGS , and driving the squat from the LEGS is the goal.  The squat of the bobsled athlete I linked, and your own squat are not "typical" low bar squats, and are much more useful for athletic training, in my opinion.

I also did not make the picture here however it was shown as an example with lumbar flexion, and I do not know how to undo the captions.  

You do understand that I completely disagree with that right?  Everything that makes your squat different, than what Rip is saying need be done, is what makes it more transferable to athletic events outside of powerlifting.  If you lean over more, drive your hips up more, etc. etc., I would bet money you start getting less and less transfer out of your squat to your olympic lifts, and jumps.  

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You apparently think Rip's low vertical, tested at some unknown point in time, is a function of his squat technique. You think that if he high-bar squatted 540 ATG he would have jumped higher?

YES.  I do not think he could squat NEAR 540 atg with a high bar position though, if he gained the LEG strength to do so, I most definitely think he would have jumped noticeably higher, and increased his horrid numbers on his olympic lifts.  Of course he would not jump "great" until he practiced it much much more, and the same with the lifts, but with that type of LEG strength at his weight, he would have increased those numbers most definitely.

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I don't. Whatever the technique, the mechanisms that make progress happen in every strength exercise can be assumed to be the same. Muscles grow, bones grow, tissue adapts, the nervous system adapts and so on. If someone starts out to LBBS 150 and increases that to 600 than these adaptations took place and they are more or less the same adaptations that the progress from HBBSing 135 to 540 would have lead to.

 No.  If someone takes their rack pull from 300 to 400, the same adaptations that take place moving the clean pull from 300 to 400 DO NOT take place.  Not even close.

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So if you are of the opinion that Rip's squat style is what lead to him only jumping 22 inches and snatching 82.5, then you would have to make a damn good argument how that is the case.

No, I dont think he cared.  I still think he doesnt care, Steven, and he doesnt have any reason to.  He trains newb lifters and recreational lifters.  Asking him about olympic lifts and sports training is like asking your plumber how to fly an airplane.

the guy in the video has a 40+ inch svj, squats 550 or so, powercleans close to 400.   you have a ~37 inch vj, powerclean over 300.  

rippetoe squatted more that both of you, had an actual olympic lifter as a coach, power cleaned 275, and vj 22 inches.  You two have strong LEGS, he has a strong lower back.