Author Topic: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..  (Read 8384 times)

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scoobychau

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I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« on: January 18, 2012, 04:10:39 am »
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Take a loook at the video here, the jump start about 55 sec into the video.

I preform depth jump with a little knee band and i think my ground contact time is about 0.2-0.3 sec.

The guy in the video, his ground contact must be 0.1 sec or less.
(Kelly B suggested ground concatc no more then 0.2 sec.)


http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/plyometric-training-exercise-the-two-footed-landing-drop-depth-jump-41241


Was I doing depth jump wrongly all this year? from the video, it look like he is focusing at shortest ground contact time rather then MAX height. ( I am sure he could jump higher then that quick hop in the video).

Is the way he is doing in the video the actual CORRECT way of doing the Depth Jump?
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Kingfish

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 07:53:41 am »
+2
the correct way of doing depth jump - do them so you develop yourself progressively.

- minimal ground contact time is a goal
- max height is a goal

developing yourself progressively doing depth jumps to achieve either a minimal ground contact time or max height means you have to start from something. its always best to start with depth landings. just force absorptions.

- establish a ROM on your landings. ~ 1/4 squat knee bend deep or lower (otherwise known as the athletic power position) with emphasis on really learning to use that ROM of bending knees from a straight leg start to a 1/4 squat while absorbing the landing force silently, quickly and smoothly. you start by doing the absorption slowly and learning to feel the movement. do more low intensity and high repetition as GPP before you add intensity - same ROM, same silent/quick/smooth landings but dropping from a higher box.

- ur legs will eventually develop a bouncy/quad lock feeling.. at that time, you should be able to dish out more power on the explosive jumps following the landings.

cliffs:
- judging how a proper depth jump is by looking at vids of people who are already in a high level of doing them (very quick ground reaction time / high max height etc..) is like seeing a very heavy full squat vid and attempting on doing the same thing without building your work capacity to lift that heavy. we all have to start from something.

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TKXII

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 12:51:47 pm »
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Excellent reply Kingfish. THis is the exact spot on advice you'd want to follow as a novice.

My only difference, apart from not progressing slowly enough, is to question the point of performing depth jumps minimzing ground contact time if they severely reduce your jump height. In other words, is there a point in performing such mini depth jumps like the guy in the video?

From the video:
"Plyometric exercises work on the principle that a concentric muscular contraction is much stronger if it immediately follows an eccentric contraction of the same muscle. It's a bit like stretching out a coiled spring to its fullest extent (the eccentric contraction), then letting it go (the concentric contraction): immense levels of energy are released in a split second as the spring recoils."

Yes. But, if you are performing minimal GCT depth jumps and losing significant height, you are not releasing "immense levels of energy," in fact you are losing immense levels of energy. Just like trying to take 3 huge steps like golden child before an RVJ if you cannot handle that.

Therefore, for beginners with little jump training experience, just try to jump high.
For strength trained folk with slow rate of force development (RFD), still, try to jump high, that will automatically reduce your ground contact time compared to the ground contact time in a squat or a squat jump.

Once your minimal GCT depth jump and max height depth jump are in like 1% of each other, lifting is probably the solution. Or weighted vert jumps, external resistance.

But if there is a large difference between minimal GCT depth jump and max heigh depth jump, or SVJ, then keep working on depth jumps for height.

Doing these puny depth jumps will improve your ability to apply a small amount of force, in a small amount of time, but not necessarily a large amount of force/power, in a small amount of time.


So therefore, I'm against minimizing GCT, if and only if there is a significant drop off (which I cannot define in numbers) in jump height,  unless your goal is to get in some submax work and just train the nervous system. The majority of the time, jumping for max height may be better, and will reduce GCTs in a max vertical jump or a max depth jump.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meHoPLP3xqg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meHoPLP3xqg</a>

At 00:58 I go for max height, I actually reduced my height as a result, mainly due to bad form
1:03 - max height
1:13 - minimize GCT, WHILE jumping as high as I can - actually jumped same height, if not slightly higher.
1:18 - replay of 1:13

It's all about max power output. So if minimal GCTs (resulting in submax jumps, like in the video) really do improve power output in MAX jumps, then I'm for it. I think though that since less power is produced in such a jump, it's as beneficial as doing line drops and other submax foot drills.

Hope that makes sense
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

J-DUB

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 05:58:31 pm »
+1
Excellent reply Kingfish. THis is the exact spot on advice I should follow, since I AM A novice.

x2

scoobychau

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2012, 02:41:13 am »
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Thanks for the replies guys!

Aim to get!
Max height !
Short contact time!

But finding out Short contact time = Non-max height...   :uhhhfacepalm:  Inverse relationship indeed.


Unlike this Direct relationship: Minimum Knee Bend = Knee Pain    :uhhhfacepalm: X2

btw,
could u guys take a look at this Depth Jump I did yesterday...
http://vimeo.com/35361695
How could I improve?
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
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creativelyric

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2012, 05:04:55 am »
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You land like a cannon ball, lol. I'm not even sure if you need depth jumps with this kind of reactivity. I think you could benefit from sub-max jumps just trying to absorb the force smoothly and cleanly.

scoobychau

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2012, 01:29:50 pm »
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And i thought my depth jump is bad...

take a look at this... coach. At? 5:10 that is Depth Jump?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiT_nvuVN40" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiT_nvuVN40</a>
BIY - believe in yourself
Born 1980
190 lbs
Reach 7'5" (89")
2 legs leap 28"@06, 33"@11, 34.5"@2012, 37"@2013
Ankle Surgery - Dec 14, 07
Dunk Goal - Nov 11, 2012 (Daughter's 1 yrs old Bdays)

~SACRIFICE~
IF YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU'VE NEVER HAD...
YOU MUST BE WILLING TO DO SOMETHING
YOU'VE NEVER DONE! (by Thomas Jefferson)

Raptor

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2012, 01:38:25 pm »
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 :uhhhfacepalm:

He did a handful of bad shit there... from landing too deep, staying too much on the ground to not having his arms to his back before landing (which in turn made him lose a ton of time on the ground).

Whatever.
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TKXII

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Re: I had been doing Depth Jump for years... but not like this..
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2012, 09:11:03 pm »
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got damn that was a shitty video. He has a shitty vert and isn't ready for depth jumps from that height
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf