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Author Topic: How much can vert really be improved?  (Read 9850 times)

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Kellyb

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How much can vert really be improved?
« on: June 11, 2012, 01:27:40 am »
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Raptor

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 04:57:58 am »
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What did Rippetoe EVER DID TO YOU?!

:D

Yeah we've discussed your article a while back. I agree with it. I think of the points A B and C, a lot of people need to improve B. A lot of people start weight training and slowly fade away from jumping to the point where they don't jump at all. They jump 2 or 3 times and call it a day. If you already have established patterns in jumping, maybe you'd get away with it. But EVEN THEN I'd still jump quite a lot.

Instead, a lot of people just become strength training guys and then wonder why they don't jump well.
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

vag

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2012, 05:21:16 am »
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Quote
I have one 37 year old client who didn't start training until he was in his 30's and still managed to put 10 + inches on his vert. The guy has some very unique physical traits though his results would definitely be outlier in nature.

Which are those??? Seriousely, you never mentioned them to me!
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Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

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Quote from: adarqui on May 17, 2021, 04:57:01 pm
it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Kellyb

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2012, 06:05:29 am »
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Oh I guess that would describe you wouldn't it? LOL  But I was actually referring to another guy. He's about 5'8, built like a pitbull and strong as a bull - definitely gifted in the fiber type department. 
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vag

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2012, 06:41:10 am »
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^LMAO!!! Those 30-plus-10''-gainers are multipyling...  :P
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Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

Quote from: adarqui on May 17, 2021, 04:57:01 pm
it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

entropy

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2012, 06:53:49 am »
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Quote from: Kellyb
good nervous systemslow nervous system and good natural strength levels your potential gains might be towards the lower end. In summary you have to identify what "type" of athlete you are and just do what you can do with what you have to work with.

Very good article. Just wondering, how do you tell apart someone with a slow or good nervous system?
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Raptor

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2012, 02:23:59 pm »
+1
Another 37 year old dunker:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0y8trZJGpw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0y8trZJGpw</a>
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

Kellyb

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2012, 06:48:54 pm »
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Quote from: entropy on June 11, 2012, 06:53:49 am
Quote from: Kellyb
good nervous systemslow nervous system and good natural strength levels your potential gains might be towards the lower end. In summary you have to identify what "type" of athlete you are and just do what you can do with what you have to work with.

Very good article. Just wondering, how do you tell apart someone with a slow or good nervous system?

Natural quickness, hand speed, and foot speed is probably the best way to tell.
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steven-miller

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2012, 07:04:31 pm »
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A reasonable position to take in the debate, I agree with it. The 30% thing is a good rule of thumb, IMO, but there are outliers in both directions and it depends whether jumping is trained as a skill or whether VJ is just used as a test without specific preparation regarding the movement.
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Raptor

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2012, 07:13:12 pm »
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I don't get this % thing.

Let's say I have a guy jumping 10 inches and a guy jumping 35 inches naturally. Are you telling me the guy jumping 35 inches has a chance of increasing his jump by 11 inches while the 10 inches guy has a chance of increasing by 3 inches? It doesn't make any sense. A % of a higher number will be a higher number, and it doesn't make sense that a guy that already has a high jump has more of a potential than a guy that doesn't have a high jump.

Now I know there are a ton of factors involved, but still.
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

steven-miller

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2012, 07:25:18 pm »
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Quote from: Raptor on June 11, 2012, 07:13:12 pm
I don't get this % thing.

Let's say I have a guy jumping 10 inches and a guy jumping 35 inches naturally. Are you telling me the guy jumping 35 inches has a chance of increasing his jump by 11 inches while the 10 inches guy has a chance of increasing by 3 inches? It doesn't make any sense. A % of a higher number will be a higher number, and it doesn't make sense that a guy that already has a high jump has more of a potential than a guy that doesn't have a high jump.

Now I know there are a ton of factors involved, but still.

You seem to understand "%", just not what "rule of thumb" means.
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Raptor

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2012, 08:33:35 pm »
+1
I only know the rule of the middle finger.
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps

LBSS

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2012, 03:18:22 am »
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Quote from: Raptor on June 11, 2012, 08:33:35 pm
I only know the rule of the middle finger.

on a roll...

steven-miller's point is true, though. obviously kellyb is not saying everyone will get exactly 30% gains regardless of starting point. it's just a general estimate for what someone in the normal range of ability can expect. although if you have a natural 10" jump, you should probably lose some weight and try again. and if you have a natural 35" jump, fuck you.
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Raptor

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Re: How much can vert really be improved?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2012, 09:30:16 am »
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Haha, yeah I know, it's just that a % is not a good measuring stick. But to be honest, I have no idea what would be a better one.
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Current PR status:

All time squat: 165 kg/Old age squat: 130 kg
All time deadlift: 184 kg/Old age deadlift: 140 kg
All time bench: 85 kg/Old age bench: 70kgx5reps
All time hip thrust (same as old age hip thrust): 160kgx5reps
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