Adarq.org

Bleh, I already feel i continued this much longer than i should have.
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I felt there was a lot of 'passion' against all i said. I repeatedly said im trying to open a philosophical discussion about it. Yet i didn't see not even one slight agreement to any of my concerns. And yes, the type of counter-arguments look like convince-like, re-read them. Im sure im biased a bit and its not as much as i say ( or as much as it sounds im saying ), but it is.

Quote from: adarqui on October 15, 2019, 10:19:37 am

Quote from: vag on October 15, 2019, 06:48:19 am

How can you all be so sure, so soon. e.g. adarq you have one separate reply post to debunk the 'mask marathon' argument, yet you named this topic 'attempting a sub2 marathon'. I mean come on!

not seeing what you mean there?

pc!

What i mean was:
A) how can you be so sure INEOS is not what im saying it could  be? the event happened yesterday. how can you be sure it wont lead to a new type of sports? the lab-style im saying. i don't know that it will, i am not claiming it will, i know i wouldn't want it to happen and i know that INEOS is somewhat leaning to the other side. But how do you know it won't happen? Because your replies ( not yours yours andrew, im speaking to all ) don't seem to have the slightest concern.
B) the second point, is that in one of the 5 consecutive replies ( which might have also helped me misinterpret, you feel your opinion 'attacked' when you see 5 consecutive replies from 1 person ), you talked about how this attempt won't mask the marathon like i said im concerned. yet , even though this was clearly not a marathon but a 'rock-climb-like attempt' and 'will never mask the marathon', you named the topic 'Eliud Kipchoge will make another attempt at a sub2 marathon'. I mean , again, come on!

damn vag relax!! lmfao. :d

EDIT:
re-read it.

i feel like a drama queen. everyone said 'idk' and argued in pretty low profile. we just disagree and you dont share my concerns. so what?
only you adarq showed a little more 'passion' but then again its still perfectly polite and unbiased, especially considering your love for long running and the athlete himself.

apologies, lets close it here.
pc

it's cool, no prob!

i don't share the concerns because i feel like the event itself was already seen by so many, as separate. ie not a "true marathon".

if stuff like this does pop up more often, i'm all for it. ie, if they had another breaking2 attempt with several guys & the illegal pacemakers/perfect course, i'd be very interested. i'd love to see people try and fail as well. it won't be easy.

they already have things like "downhill mile races", completely straight 200m/400m races etc, all kinds of things that aren't legal. all 5k WR's were banished this year or something, because of the corruption/lack of drug testing etc, so they basically reset it.

what i like the least about all of this, is the shoes. so regardless of course/pace modifications, the shoes are the biggest problem. shoe companies are going to keep pushing the envelope here, until someone "steps up" and bans them. i'm all for carbon fiber plates in running shoes, but not "engineering to artificially accelerate foot rocker" and stuff like that. to me that' where it gets muddy. people run with carbon fiber plates all the time in XC/Track etc - those are the best shoes. Just some crazy light shoes with a carbon fiber plate to protect the foot and/or slightly improve energy return, but nothing fancy.

regarding pacing, men's road races don't benefit from having pacers the entire way, but most women's races do - that's why they have "women only records". for example, the recent Chicago Marathon WR set by Brigid Kosgei, she benefited from male pacers. Men can't benefit from anything other than illegal pacers. So the illegal pacing aspect of INEOS 159 isn't as crazy as it seems. As for the course, race organizers are always looking to create fast courses. Some of those courses are illegal. I'm pretty sure the course in INEOS 159 was actually legal, ie it's just a big loop which is fine. Something like the Great North Run & Boston Marathon are illegal by WR standards because they are a point-to-point run, you can benefit from a tail wind the entire race etc.

i've been saying it for a long time, i'd love to see elites barefoot race (on safe grass/dirt) w/ no hydration/fluids.

but ya i'm not really worried about it, other than the shoe tech component of it. that's the sketchiest aspect of this event, IMHO.

Quote from: vag on October 15, 2019, 11:05:18 am

Bleh, I already feel i continued this much longer than i should have.
.
I felt there was a lot of 'passion' against all i said. I repeatedly said im trying to open a philosophical discussion about it. Yet i didn't see not even one slight agreement to any of my concerns. And yes, the type of counter-arguments look like convince-like, re-read them. Im sure im biased a bit and its not as much as i say ( or as much as it sounds im saying ), but it is.

i feel like a drama queen. everyone said 'idk' and argued in pretty low profile. we just disagree and you dont share my concerns. so what?

Nah it was an interesting discussion. I was saying idk not as a reaction to this thread .. but to the criticism i've read on eg reddit where people are low key sour grapes / hating by saying 'he had the shoes' or 'he had pacers' etc etc. As if the elitest of the elite doing something outworldly just to do it, invalidates their own modest achievements in running? I think the fact that it's not an official WR already establishes the special circumstances of this event. We don't really have to dwell on those aspects .. whereas when i look at the reactions like 60-80% of the reactions are saying something like 'meh .. he had pacers'. na bro, he legit ran a marathon (yes in ideal circumstances) at that pace and that's an amazing achievement in itself. Want to hear more about the achievement and less about why it's not so great. He's not some nobody doing something crazy but can't replicate it in more normal conditions which would make it more of a 'yea but' situation.

some more details on the event itself:

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/eliud-kipchoge-ineos-159-marathon

i'd like to hear more about stride freq/length/heart rate/body weight/running economy stuff etc. haven't seen a detailed analysis of that yet.

Im fine with the shoes lol. Actually, being an old fart that needs all the tech-boost possible, i love this 'forced' technology advancement with shoes, because sooner or later it will be out in normal price, just as it happens with F1 advancements ending up in normal production cars.. Im fine with hydration too. Actually i am fine with everything. What i am not fine with is that this 'perfect' condition thing might take away some shine from the 'real' sports, because it will always be ahead in performance from the 'normal conditions' event. There was no competition at this one but next time there will be. Then who knows what we will see, maybe a 100m with the best athletes in the world, in a perfect conditions and oxygen enhanced atmosphere chamber? Then the Olympics 100m will be the second best 100m, simply because the other one they will be running faster. Which is actually fair tbh.
As for haters, screw them, can't win with them, i actually feel sorrow for someone that the best he can come up with is 'man he had pacers'. Its pointless to even argue, logic has long left the building lol

Those pacemakers were pretty good. The pacers were really planned well; how they would switch and the formation.

Him running the race at around 4:34/mile for 2 hours just makes me laugh how crazy that sounds but when you look at other people try run that pace and how close to sprinting they are you can see how much eliud's build benefits him too, long bouncy strides. He runs so effortlessly when at the pace.

The speed would be at around 13mph.

yup. just over 13.1 mph. it's insanity.

i've been watching the 2016 rio marathon recently. so many in shape folks running along side the marathoners for a bit - some for several miles. so they must be running at 4:5X pace etc. was surprising. pretty cool tho.

must be so awesome to run that speed, that easily (for 13-26 miles).